Rear Wheel Steering
01-30-03, 02:27 PM
#1
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Rear Wheel Steering
yo does anyone know if the FC's have Rear Wheel Steering. A friend of mine who knows like everything about the RX-7 said that they do, and he wasn't talking about the FDs. If you know leave a post. thanks
01-30-03, 02:33 PM
#2
Edmond Dantes
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yes they do have a "rear steer" function but its kinda ghetto and is slightly unpredictable/quircky when driving hard.
Mazda sorta used it for sales, it has a function but only really serves for average drivin.
Mazdatrixs makes a kit to eliminate it and give a more solid rear end feel.
thank you and have a good day
Mazda sorta used it for sales, it has a function but only really serves for average drivin.
Mazdatrixs makes a kit to eliminate it and give a more solid rear end feel.
thank you and have a good day
01-30-03, 02:36 PM
#3
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
From my FC web page:
The rear suspension was more unique. As all the Japanese automotive manufactures were playing with rear steering in the mid -eighties, the RX-7 followed suite with an independent, Dynamic Tracking Suspension System with trailing arms, Triaxial floating hubs, camber control links, coil springs, and a 12 mm anti-roll bar (14 mm with the Heavy Duty suspension). Mazda claims to have applied for more than 100 patents on their Dynamic Tracking Suspension System independent rear suspension. With DTSS, the rear wheels become an active component of the steering system, changing from toe-out during low lateral force cornering to toe-in for extra stability during high lateral acceleration cornering situations and to reduce lift throttle over steer which had been a problem on the 1st generation. Similar systems were soon found on Porsche and other German manufactures vehicles.
The rear suspension was more unique. As all the Japanese automotive manufactures were playing with rear steering in the mid -eighties, the RX-7 followed suite with an independent, Dynamic Tracking Suspension System with trailing arms, Triaxial floating hubs, camber control links, coil springs, and a 12 mm anti-roll bar (14 mm with the Heavy Duty suspension). Mazda claims to have applied for more than 100 patents on their Dynamic Tracking Suspension System independent rear suspension. With DTSS, the rear wheels become an active component of the steering system, changing from toe-out during low lateral force cornering to toe-in for extra stability during high lateral acceleration cornering situations and to reduce lift throttle over steer which had been a problem on the 1st generation. Similar systems were soon found on Porsche and other German manufactures vehicles.
01-30-03, 03:43 PM
#4
Hooray For Boobies!!!
you are both talking about the same ****. It is call DTSS, Dynamic Toes Steering Sytem (I think). It is one bushing on the rear floating hub that deflects about a degree or two creating a rear steer effect out of the rear wheels. This only occurs when the G forces are great enough to deflect the bushing. Some say they have felt it at low speeds, but I did not. I only felt it at 45 plus MPH. It is a bit scary when you fill the back come out at free way on/off ramp speeds. I went with the Racing Beat rear steer eliminator bushings. No more rear steer, works great.
01-30-03, 06:33 PM
#6
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Yah its DTSS, And i f*cking hate it. It caused me a nice wreck and F*cked driver side fender. To put it one way, i don't reccomend drifting without Toe eliminators.
Also while cornering hard it creeps up on you, and suddednly it feels like your rear end's sliding of the road.
Kinda fun to show off to your friends by making super quick lane changes, but thats about it.
Also while cornering hard it creeps up on you, and suddednly it feels like your rear end's sliding of the road.
Kinda fun to show off to your friends by making super quick lane changes, but thats about it.
01-30-03, 06:44 PM
#7
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
Well when you have had some real driving experience with the DTSS, and the bushings are not worn out, the system is much easier controlled, and very predictable.
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01-30-03, 07:14 PM
#8
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Are the original bushigs replaceble? In order to get the DTSS working in near stock levels? What is involved in this job?
And, please, no "just buy the eliminators from mazdatrix" anwsers.
And, please, no "just buy the eliminators from mazdatrix" anwsers.
01-30-03, 07:18 PM
#9
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
It is my understanding from the last I checked, that you must replace the whole rear carrier assembly, rather than just the bushings. You may wish to check with you local dealer though to make sure.
This is a picture of the carrier, (being removed, bottom hand holding it)
This is a picture of the carrier, (being removed, bottom hand holding it)
Last edited by Icemark; 01-30-03 at 07:22 PM.
01-30-03, 07:26 PM
#10
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
from Mazdatrix's website on rear steering of the FC:
The 86-92 RX7's have "rear steer". For those of you not familiar with this, it is a combination of rear suspension geometry, and compliant bushings that "make" the rear of the car steer into the turn. This is accomplished by making the rear of the car steer to the outside of the corner, which then makes the front point into the turn more than it normally would.
"Most" drivers either never push the car hard enough to "activate" the "system", or simply do not notice the somewhat unnatural handling at that point. The easiest explanation of what it feels like is that just at the point you would expect the rear to start coming out a little (right about where you would leave your foot in it, and apply a little reverse-lock), instead the rear kind of steers out a little, and the front steers into the corner. Noticeably beyond that point, the car behaves about normal. The real "problem", is the passing across (and back) of that "point/time period" when the rear steer is "in control".
"Most" drivers either never push the car hard enough to "activate" the "system", or simply do not notice the somewhat unnatural handling at that point. The easiest explanation of what it feels like is that just at the point you would expect the rear to start coming out a little (right about where you would leave your foot in it, and apply a little reverse-lock), instead the rear kind of steers out a little, and the front steers into the corner. Noticeably beyond that point, the car behaves about normal. The real "problem", is the passing across (and back) of that "point/time period" when the rear steer is "in control".
01-30-03, 08:06 PM
#11
Edmond Dantes
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I never got rid of it on any the FC's I have owned, and once you get used to how it drives and anticipate it then its not too bad.
i think the problem is that if they are old and not fuctioning like they did new then it prolly un settling.
i agree drifting is kinda a chore with the stock setup.
i think the problem is that if they are old and not fuctioning like they did new then it prolly un settling.
i agree drifting is kinda a chore with the stock setup.
01-31-03, 02:52 AM
#13
Cheese
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this what can happen when you put super hard suspension and retain the standard DTSS
more info at: http://www4.tpgi.com.au/adsy01/dtss.htm
a lot of ppl have different opinions. this what that angry yet experienced reted guy said
more info at: http://www4.tpgi.com.au/adsy01/dtss.htm
a lot of ppl have different opinions. this what that angry yet experienced reted guy said
I never really got to push the STOCK FC suspension until I drove a bone-stock 1987 GXL for a daily driver when my FC was down. Any of you Sac guys know about the I5/HWY50/HWY80 interchange in the middle if downtown Sac. My daily drive required me to drive from South Sac up I5 and then over to HWY50 east to Rancho Cordova. My return trips would require mid blasts returning the other way. The HWY50 west to I5 south cut-off is a super smooth left turn that seems to go on for a loooong time. The posted speed limit is 40mph (I think). I would gradually push the GXL with crappy non-matching tires through this turn a few MPH every day. My record for going through that turn is 82MPH indicated.
My FC turbo has a fully built suspension - it scares me going into that turn that fast. Go figure...
My FC turbo has a fully built suspension - it scares me going into that turn that fast. Go figure...
02-01-03, 04:35 AM
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Originally posted by ORX705
this what can happen when you put super hard suspension and retain the standard DTSS
more info at: http://www4.tpgi.com.au/adsy01/dtss.htm
this what can happen when you put super hard suspension and retain the standard DTSS
more info at: http://www4.tpgi.com.au/adsy01/dtss.htm
100% driver error.
02-01-03, 04:43 AM
#15
Rotary Enthusiast
Originally posted by breesej
Sounds more like driver error than the DTSS causing the crash. Personally I wouldn't be boosting like mad at 140 KmPH in the rain n average tires. Only an idiot would do this and claim that DTSS is at fault (even partially).
100% driver error.
Sounds more like driver error than the DTSS causing the crash. Personally I wouldn't be boosting like mad at 140 KmPH in the rain n average tires. Only an idiot would do this and claim that DTSS is at fault (even partially).
100% driver error.
Ever hear about the guy with the RV that set the cruise control then went to the back for a nap? And to think he won that lawsuit :O
02-01-03, 04:50 AM
#16
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Originally posted by 88 SE
Ever hear about the guy with the RV that set the cruise control then went to the back for a nap? And to think he won that lawsuit :O
Ever hear about the guy with the RV that set the cruise control then went to the back for a nap? And to think he won that lawsuit :O
02-01-03, 10:02 AM
#17
I'll have a Coke!
For all the bad things that people say about the DTSS it does have it's uses and like Spraintz said is more for average driving. Personally i really don't mind it, it's actually really cool when you are on an off ramp at 70 and they kick in. you kind of get sucked into your seat and you can feel the car "carving" it's way though the off ramp. For anyone that has carved on skis or a snowboard it feels just like that.
Now in some cases you might not want that and as some people have said they perfer having the eliminators in place. It's more personal preference. I could see them being a problem if they have worn out and/or disintagrated over time the sudden jar could be dangerous and you should think about replacing them.
On the other hand i've even auto-x with old worn out DTSS bushings and i didn't have a problem. now that could be me just being a n00b to the sport or i was so used to the feeling that it was predicable to me. Again, personal preference
Now in some cases you might not want that and as some people have said they perfer having the eliminators in place. It's more personal preference. I could see them being a problem if they have worn out and/or disintagrated over time the sudden jar could be dangerous and you should think about replacing them.
On the other hand i've even auto-x with old worn out DTSS bushings and i didn't have a problem. now that could be me just being a n00b to the sport or i was so used to the feeling that it was predicable to me. Again, personal preference
02-01-03, 11:10 AM
#18
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[QUOTEI never really got to push the STOCK FC suspension until I drove a bone-stock 1987 GXL for a daily driver when my FC was down. Any of you Sac guys know about the I5/HWY50/HWY80 interchange in the middle if downtown Sac. My daily drive required me to drive from South Sac up I5 and then over to HWY50 east to Rancho Cordova. My return trips would require mid blasts returning the other way. The HWY50 west to I5 south cut-off is a super smooth left turn that seems to go on for a loooong time. The posted speed limit is 40mph (I think). I would gradually push the GXL with crappy non-matching tires through this turn a few MPH every day. My record for going through that turn is 82MPH indicated[/B][/QUOTE]
Hehe Man I LOVE that turn.. I have hit it hard too.. I would say 85ish but I don't pay much attention to the speedo when pushing my car like that.
Hehe Man I LOVE that turn.. I have hit it hard too.. I would say 85ish but I don't pay much attention to the speedo when pushing my car like that.
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