Mykl

I know the toe eliminator kit is a common modification that a lot of FC owners make, but to those who do this what further modifications do you make to fight the rear trailing arms' tendency to increase toe out at the limit?

The reason Mazda used this system is to keep the rear end planted under hard cornering. The trailing arms flex and cause toe out, which will move the cars tendency to oversteer.

Has anybody braced the trailing arm in any way to make it more rigid?

Scott 89t2

hmmm never heard of that before. I haven't done anything.

Mykl

The reason Mazda developed the DTSS (DTTS?) system (more commonly known as "rear steer") for the FC was to overcome the semi-trailing arm setup's tendency to flex under high load. The flex caused toe-out at the limit, and toe-out in the rear will produce oversteer. The system Mazda has set up fights this natural tendency was DTSS. What this does is force the outside rear suspension to "re-align" itself by adding a couple degrees of toe-in when under cornering load.

I'm sure you've noticed that quirky feeling the car sends back when you get the rear end settled as you accelerate out of a curve, and then the quick twitch of lift throttle oversteer when you let off the throttle if you still have the steering wheel turned a tad. That's the "rear steer" playing tricks on you.

After much thought I've figured out that "rear steer" can be very beneficial in a performance sense if you have extremely quick reflexes, but it's difficult to catch and I would prefer a more natural feel out of my car. But I don't want to compromise performance and knowingly do a modification that will produce sloppy oversteer.

So I'm trying to figure out if there's a way to brace the rear suspension to keep it from flexing so much under load.

Jimmy325i

Anyone notice any changes in the rear steer after lowering their car? Mine feels like the *** end got really loose now that the ST springs are installed and this is on brand new shocks...

It wiggles under hard throttle. (a lot!)

Mykl

That would make sense... because the effect kicks in when the suspension is compressed. Maybe a rear steer eliminator kit would solve that for you.

Scott 89t2

did you realign the car after you lowered it??

Jimmy325i

I'm gonna have tires plus give me a free readout as to how messed up it is and go from there. My steering wheel has been off center since the day I bought the car. I toed in my front end by feel because it was so far toed out it would dart around on the freeway. I've been wanting to get the control arm bushings and the toe eliminators before spending the coin for a good alignment. <not tires plus> Being broke doesn't help.

The premise that the higher in the travel the control arm moves the greater the toe "correction" added is what had made me think to ask you guys if you had similar problems. But, I was also under the impression that this was only a load sensitive devise being that the soft bushings are replaced with hard ones and nothing is anchored in place for the elimination of the DTSS.

I could also just have fucked up camber causing the instability of the rear end due to the drop.

Mykl

Camber shouldn't affect the car in the way you speak of in a straight line. If it's wiggling around it sounds like you're toe is all fucked up.

But speaking of alignments... I wacked a curb in my convertible not too long ago and I went to get it aligned and checked out. I stood around and watched the guy do it, watched the numbers on the machine and such. I hadn't bent anything (fortunately), just fucked up the toe real good.

My steering wheel has never been "on center" before. I told the guy to center it up, and I watched him brace it before he made adjustments, but now it's still really far off center. The natural "on center" feel is there, but the wheel is crookid. It's also kinda darty on the interstate, so I think either the bushings are so worn out that the stock alignment settings cause the front to go to too much toe out up front than it's supposed to as speed increases, or the guy just added too much toe out up front. The sticky AVS Intermediates I have on the car probably don't help this much.

I'm gonna pop off the steering wheel and move it over a notch to center it back up again, no big deal. If nothing else the car turns in like a demon, even if it does suck to drive on the interstate.

BlackRx7

okay I have the ST springs, AGX Struts, and RB Toe Eliminators, now my rear end won't oversteer if the agxs are set at the stiffest setting (4) in the rear, unless you just being stupid, like a 200 degree turn, or your going 80+, but I have my agxs set at 1 now cause I like the oversteer feeling, less understeer, I'd rather have the oversteer than understeer....on another note the DTSS takes power away from your turn as it flexes the bushing, plus with the toe eliminators installed my car breaks loose at a much later pointed than it did with the stock setup, so my conclusion is that the DTSS is for unexperienced drivers...........lemme know what you think I got alot more info that I have experienced around town and at autoX...

I just installed some Energy Suspension poly front controll arm bushings and it made a hell of a differnce, no more darting on the freeway! plus hardly any vibration, rear tires are outa balence...

Jimmy325i

Well, I do have my shocks on a pretty soft setting and our roads suck ***. (washboard isn't even close to being accurate)

I also noticed a big difference in handling while a buddy of mine (250lbs) was in the car with me. (210lbs) The subframe bushings are also likely shot, seeing as I have a welded front diff mount and the subframe has been creeking ever since.

I think I need to just go in and replace everything that's not metal under the car and see what happens.

Anyone ever replace their subframe bushings with AL ones? Or do they make delrin bushings? I haven't seen any but maybe I'm just not looking in the right places.

BlackRx7

**** I havn't seen any subframe bushings, I got some rear controll arm bushings but there gonna be a bitch to put on seeing as I'm gonna have to drop the subframe to get those bitches off,...

Scott 89t2

mazdacomp has delirin subframe bushings. the big ones. I actully have a set here that they sent me and charged me for by mistake... dam $85... I'll sell them if you want. you can't buy from them anymore unless you have an acount.

BlackRx7

pmed you....there MINE~!!!!!!

Jimmy325i

******! lol

Tell ya what... Send them to me and I'll turn some AL ones and send them back to you. Or you can just give me some very specific dimensions and I'll hook you up with a set at cost of materials.

Scott 89t2

hahaha They've been sitting in my room for like a year.... I posted them for sale back then and bumped it for a month and got no replys. now I got 2 fighting LOL

but BlackRx7 won LOL

BlackRx7

I'm sure either me or scott will give you exact dimensions, you could make money on this, I'm sure you and me both aren't the only ones who hear creaks and cracks when the take off on a hill, or take off hard.....gotto think like a marketing manager

Jimmy325i

I need to talk to my prof about this.... I could make a mold off one of those and injection mold them at school. Anyone ever work with delrin?

I'll be very happy with some blueprint quality dimensions. BlackRx7 can buy them. That would kinda munch my food money pretty badly right now. I just ordered my walbro last week.

Scott 89t2

is 2x the size of a snapple lid exact enough?? LOL


I'm sure you could mold a stock one too

BlackRx7

damn those suckers are like 2x as thick as the stock ones..

Jimmy325i

Molding a stock blown up one isn't my idea of a good mold.

I am not going to pull one out, go to the machine shop at school, turn a copy off an old part, then go back to my car and test fit it, and go back to school to make any changes and then make another one only to then go back to my car and fix it. See where I'm coming from?

I'm curious why you haven't installed them Scott?

Jimmy325i

Am I seeing things or are those tappered?

Scott 89t2

cause it's a huge pain in the *** these bushings are sitting right next to my rear control arm ones which might not ever move either LOL...

and I never wanted them. they sent them instead of the rear steer bushings.. I guess the guy mis understood me on the phone... I just ordered the toe bushings from RB a few days later with a bunch of other stuff from them

madaz07

i just got my car lowered with king springs and koni ajustables ive noticed that some times when i go over a series of little bumps the rear end twiches and where can i find more info on DTSS i dont now much about it.

Jimmy325i

madaz07, you're running 14psi and only seeing 210 at the wheels?? is that on like 30psi compression per rotor face or what?


Also I'm game for producing the rear steer eliminators in quantity if someone wants to provide the dimensions as well. Whomever sends me accurare specs will get theirs at cost. too.

madaz07

im running the stock TMIC plus my car is in need of a dyno badly i bought it like that its running 10:1 a/f ratio wich hella rich and the guy who does all my work said the map is basically standard i just have to wait untill he gets his dyno up and running then ill see how much hp ill have then