Does anyone have a pic of the ACV being used for 5/6th port activation?

Or at least tell me how you did it? All I find from searching is thread after thread of people posting to "Use the search feature"

I found a write up saying you can use the ACV, but no details on exactly what it entails.

My assumptions:

Use the hose coming straight out of the ACV. Find an adapter to reduce the hose from what-ever size it is using to a size matching the metal line going into the actuators.

If anyone can tell me an easy place to find this adapter, I would also appreciate that.

 

Have I stumped the gurus on this one?

C'mon....this should be easy for anyone that's done it to explain....

 

I think the description is in the archeives. Got me. You've stumped only a few. There are more than one way to do that. Some are elaborate (like mine), others HomeDepot parts.
I've even done a non elaborate one, once.

See the solenoids on the left of the engine? Grey, Orange, green etc?

Have the knowledge that the Relief (blue) solenoid gets a signal from the ECU at exactly 3800rpm????? Know how to buy buy plastic, barbed vacuum nipples from the hardware store? And vacuum line? That's all that is needed,. OOOps. Some 18-22 gauge electrical wire from the store and a good pair of electrical crimpers.

Drill a 3/16 hole into the acv's feed line.

Insert the plastic nipple.

Put a vacuum hose on the nipple.

Put the spare solenoid anywhere you want on the right fender.

Attach the previous vacuum hose to one of the solenoids nipples.

Attach another piece of vacuum hose to the solenoids other nipple,.

Run that last piece of vacuum hose to the aux ports feed nipple.

Run 12v to one spade on the solenoid.

Run another wire to the other spade on the solenoid. Now the other end of THAT wire has to go to the RELIEF (BLUE) SOLENOID. It must be spliced/attached to one of the wires on that Blue solenoid. It goes to the wire THAT IS NOT BLACK/WHITE. I forget the color.

So. Now alls in place. Start the engine. Rev the engine. At 3800rpm the aux ports will open.

That's how I remember doing it. I was not please after a year or so and got me a rpm actuated switch from ?????????????? and set the opening where I wanted it.

Also, if its a 86-88, you MUST JUST GOTTA have the wires attached to the water temp switch at the bottom of the radiator. If that is not done......the ECU will NOT always send the ground signal to the Relief solnoid at 3800. Might do it sooner, might do it later, might not do it at all.

Lotta folk fail emissions because of that switch, I'd bet.

 

Oh. That solenoid. The nipples are arranged different on the solenoids. Ever notice that??????????? Look at the Relief solenoid. You don't want the arrangement of the filter to look like that one. Look at the others. Notice how the nipples SEEM to be arranged different? You want your new solenoid to look like THEM not the blue one. To do that you can pull the filter off the ones that look like the blue one and install that filter on another place on the solenoid. These words make sense as you STARE at the solenoids.

There's a little more to it than that, but not worth talking about.

 

Thanks Hailers

That will be my second project for tomorrow afternoon. Gotta finish the 5-lug conversion first.

Either your way, the electric air pump and rpm switch from Summit or (worst case scenario) wire them open.

 

Personally, I'd use the Summit RPM SWITCH and the existing airpump. That's what I use on my wife's 86. Done

 

You can run them off the ACV ari dump hose (at the bottom of the ACV) and you won't need any solenoids. Very simple, very reliable, very inexpensive. Any questions you might have would probably be answered in a very long thread on www.teamfc3s.org/forum just search for "5th and 6th ports"

 

[QUOTE=Jaguarx7]You can run them off the ACV ari dump hose (at the bottom of the ACV) and you won't need any solenoids. Very simple, very reliable, very inexpensive. Any questions you might have would probably be answered in a very long thread on www.teamfc3s.org/forum just search for "5th and 6th ports"[/QUOTE

No. That is a lousy way of opening and closing the auxillary ports. That method depends on the RELIEF SOLENOID to open the dump on the ACV. While the acv will dump at 3800 rpm with reliability, IT OPENS AT OTHER TIMES ALSO. Do you want the auxillary ports to open at 2500 in fifth gear? Probably not, but I guarantee they will. That is just a figure I pulled out of the hat. Throw in any rpm b/t 1000 and 3800. The acv will dump at seemingly random in fifth. Its not random though. It's tps related and pressure sensor related.

And it's not only in fifth gear. In forth the acv will open UNDER 3800rpm. Do you really want that? NO.

Any doubters out there NEED to get a couple (one will do) of LEDS. Put one wire of the LED to a power source. Put the other lead to pin 2P on a series four car. Now go for an extended drive. Get out on the hwy. After ten or so miles STOMP the pedal in fifth at 3000 rpm. Duh, the LED goes out indicating the Relief Solenoid has now caused the acv to dump air. Wheeee. Do the same in forth gear but you don't need to stomp the pedal. Play with the throttle under 3800rpm. You'll see the LED go out indicating the air is now being dumped overboard, BEFORE 3800rpm.

The person who, years ago, wrote that article in the fc3s3 whatever forum, never really checked things out. He just blipped throttles in the driveway. No good.

 

I've been running this setup for about a year, with no complaints. At no time has it ever felt like the ports were comming in to early or late, in fact power has always seemed very consistant through the rpm band. However, in the near future I plan on installing my RB road race header which will block the fresh air port to the exaust manifold, and therefore changing the amount of pressure. Because of this I plan on testing the pressure with a gauge before and after the swap, and adjusting resistance at the end of the hose accordingly. I would be happy to share all information gained when this is done, so that this ongiong debate may be somewhat nearer to being setttled.

 

I more or less know where your coming from and don't want to argue anymore than you. But....for the better part of a year I used the signal for the Relief Solenoid to actuate my auxillary ports. That signal I THOUGHT only happened at 3800rpm as demonstrated each time I rev'd the engine in the driveway. So I was as pleased as punch ..for a long time.

Then one fine day I installed two LED'S in the cabin to monitor the ON/OFF signals going to the Relief and Switching solenoids. All seemed fine after driving for a few miles, but then I started noticed the pattern started to change. At first I noticed this in fifth gear. The Relief Solenoid light would go off at a rev below 3800. NOT good to have the fifth and sixth go open under 3800 in fifth. Say even 2500 it would go OFF.

So, that didn't seem so bad. Maybe it's just in fifth gear. Who cares about it in fifth. Nope. Did it in fourth gear also at rev's under 3800rpm.

That's when I went with the Summit Racing Switch

Just in case it's not known: the acv should not dump unless the Relief Solenoid gets a ground signal from the ECU. That is what I meant by the LED coming ON/OFF. The light comes on usually at any speed below 3800 and goes off for sure above 3800. The problem is the word USUALLY. It goes OFF way too many times below 3800, to make me happy.

Oh. I've checked this out on a 87na and a 86na. Both acted the same.

 

Ooops. I forgot to add a thought about something I saw in your post, JaguarXK8 (humor). About the exaust. When you put the RB on there, it's not the fresh air port that will be blocked. It will be the passage for the EGR (truly useless even for emissions purposes).

The path for the airpump air is from the airpump.....to the acv......thru the spoked checkvalve on the intake manifold on the mating side of the acv.........to the front and the rear housings (NOT rotor housings but front and rear housings).....thru a somewhat square hole in these housings then downward to the bottom of the front/rear housings......exits there into the front and rear ROTOR housings, and enters the exaust port thru a passage hidden by the diffusers.

 

Actualy, I was thinking more like XJ13B (bad humor). Thanks for the corection on the ports, I've already got the EGR bloked off (had to do that when I installed the VDI). I figure when I install the header I'll take at least a full day, if not two, and just play with port actuation using a pressure gauge to get the timing just right. I figure there's got to be a way to run the ports well off the stock airpump. Maybe eliminating the ACV might be the answer, would removing it have any effect on fuel econemy (daily driver, costly gas)? Oh well, back to the FSM...

 

I just have a simple 3mm vac hose tapped into the airpump outlet hose, a relief valve made out of a "T" along the hose, and a disabled ACV (otherwise the various ACV functions would increase/drop the air pump pressures when you wouldn't want it to). Calibrated the ports opening via the engine rpm's (since the airpump flow is directly proportional to engine rpms). Simple as that. No solenoids, extra wiring, rpm switches, etc...

The size of the hole in the "T" determines the opening rpms...

 

[QUOTE=HAILERS]
Gonna disagree here... See I checked it with a boost/vac gauge in a car for 3 months before I ever recommended it. You can post all the test BS you want about when the valve opens, but that is only 25% of the picture.

Yes, the dump valve does dump earlier than 3800, BUT the pressure in the line is not sufficent to open S4 aux ports until 3800-3850. See the air pump is not making enough pressure to open the valves through the dump valve until the RPMs have gotten to a high enough point.

Now on a S5 it would open considerably earlier as the pressure needed to open the aux ports is half of an S4.

So (as much as I do indeed respect you) don't post your replies unless you you have done it in this case. Yes, I know you checked electrically, but as I have just shown, that is a very small part of that picture. You need air pressure, not just an open solenoid.

 

would it be possible to get some pictures of your setups? I think I know what you all are talking about but i'd like to see it.

 

[QUOTE=Icemark]Gonna disagree here... See I checked it with a boost/vac gauge in a car for 3 months before I ever recommended it. You can post all the test BS you want about when the valve opens, but that is only 25% of the picture.

Yes, the dump valve does dump earlier than 3800, BUT the pressure in the line is not sufficent to open S4 aux ports until 3800-3850. See the air pump is not making enough pressure to open the valves through the dump valve until the RPMs have gotten to a high enough point.(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( ((

I suppose that's possible. Sounds like a whimpy airpump to me though (parting shot).

 

This is from one I did a while back:

 

can anyone tell me a reliable spot to wire some leds to show me when my 5/6 ports are opening... same with the vdi?

im not changing my setup, i just want to see...

 

I ran mine off of the dump side of the ACV for a while, but found that I got a more consistant, predictable response by using the supply side.

With a setup like mine, even with the car in the driveway (no engine load), the the ports will open at around 3500 rpms. It allows for very easy adjustments/ calibration of the opening times. They open too soon, increase the relief hole size; too late, vice versa...

I have noticed, through trials and tribulations, that if you rig them to open too soon, the secondaries take longer to come online (the port opening is sensed by the boost sensor, which helps determine the secondaries' operation). And, rigging them to open a bit later than normal actually seems to help the "kick" sensed when the secondaries do their thing...

 

Thanks Icemark

This thread is taking off like my old "How to make a beefy NA" thread did years back.

I do not have an air pump anymore. That space is now reserved for my Paxton supercharger.

But, I am running lean on top end due to the lack of ports opening. The ports don't open, the secondaries don't kick in and the A/F ratio gets destroyed without that extra fuel.

So, I have been putting around shifting like a grandma at 3k rpm. Not acceptable. Especially with Revo coming up next week.

I am going to try Icemark's way first (cheapest and easiest to do in the driveway). I plan on ordering all the air compressor parts and summit rpm switch at the end of the month, after Revo.

 

There is a thing/page called OUTPUTS in the series five fsm. It states when those two items open. Aux ports at 3850 and the other item at 5200rpm. That's from memory.

If you wanted to look at the LEDS then you need to connect one wire of the LED to a 12v source of power. Then the other lead to the pin on the ECU that outputs the ground signal to turn the item on/off.

The six ports pin would be 3R on a series five. The VDI would be pin 2M. Pin 1A would be a good place to pick off 12vdc.

And of course you'd need two LEDS to do both at the same time.

 

Icemark, just curious, but what did you do with the hose going to the cats (the one formarly used to run the actuators), did you use it for anything, or just leave it hanging there?

 

Just cap it off.

 

See I would think a supercharger would be perfect replacement for the air pump. Simply tap off the supercharger output (or an intake vac line as close to the superhargers out put as possible) put a small manual boost control (or simular) valve to adjust pressure, and then run the line to the actuators.

Adjust the small valve with a boost gauge or something simular until you see about 2.5+ PSI at 3500-3800 RPM.

See the cool thing about that is that you would get the nice slow controlled progressive opening (rather than sudden snap pop opening found on the S5 setups), operation just as found on the stock S3 and S4 13B setups.

That is the draw back to using the (or any) air pump output and the S5 type actuation of the aux ports. They slam open. When using a progressive output (like the ACV dump line or a supercharger) you have a much smoother transition. This translates to a much smoother power curve on the dyno as well, with no sudden drop, pause, then peak as found often with the S5 or air horn/powered air pump set ups.

Now on the S5 or VDI converted S4 intakes, you want the VDI to slam open. The longer the VDI takes to cycle from one state to the other leads to a serious drop in efficency.

But for the Aux ports, opening them slower, based off of engine speed rather than a pre-set RPM is a much smoother transistion.

 

I did this works out ok, use the valve to adjust the opening timing.