GLHS

hey your a real *******. You have tried everything to come up with some reason that I couldn't hit 98 mph.

I do have time slips from the 1/8 track and I run a 9.7 @ 73 mph, and I guess your gonna tell me, I had someone push me, or so stupid remark. maybe the ink ran anfd changed the number.

on the slip it shows a reaction of .533 and a 60' time of 2.303

330' is 6.868

final as 9.781 @ 73.02

cbrock

iTrader: (1)

Why is that? You asked a question about your mph and what it should run? I answered, it wasn't what you wanted to hear so you go and attack everything I say? Did you even go to that nhra site and compare numbers? Numbers don't lie. It's still true that by setting a car up to spin, it will give you more mph. And yes, I DO BELEIVE you ran 98mph...what I'm saying is that once you get your 60ft down your ET will drop, probably well into the 14's, but you MPH will come down too. However, if I see a video of you or a time slip at those speeds and 13 sec ET, I'd **** myself along with the 3rd gen owner you smoked. So be proud...you might have the fastest N/A 2nd gen in the US? Go here and will answer all your questions. See ya in the 11's
http://www.mokandragway.com/cooltest/

BTW: Your 1/8 speeds and 60ft are still telling me that you spun really bad...it's off by about 5mph. Those times seem a little bit more realistic then that 1/4 time though

I also think my line of reasoning is in line to. You make the car faster by either adding HP or removing weight PERIOD. To drop from a 16.5 to a 13.9 you'd have to remove about 2600 lbs. (I picture you on a cardboard box holding strings attached to a motor ) Or have a HUGE power increase. You've done a little bit of both but really doesn't seem drastic enough to hit 13's. Lets hear from other N/A guys about mods and times.

Oh yeah, thanks for the help on the turbo van

GLHS

I do understand what you are saying about weight realted to HP.

I do have to admit I was abit harsh, it could be I am catching the flu and I don't feel very good right now.

I am always willing to help anyone one, so please don't take everything I said to heart

kleetuz

iTrader: (2)

Hmm I guess this thread is a little old, but I was watching NHRA last night. The guy in the right lane ran a 4.58 at like 300 or something I don't know. The guy in the left however lane didn't do so well he only ran a 8.5 something but I looked at the speed and it said 86.5mph!!!

pp13bnos

iTrader: (1)

Something sound funny to me. I'm not saying BS, but perhaps the track timing/mph where off just a bit.

Here is my best run in my n/a.

RT. 511
60 2.405
330 6.490
1/8 9.8 (1 tenth slower than you.)
72.97 mph (You also traped faster than me, so you should be pulling away from me.)
1000 12.724
1/4 15.1
mph 94.46mph

You trapped right around 4mph faster than me...but 1/2 second slower than me...but where/was ahead of me at the 1/8 mile....It does'nt add up. CJ

Also, at this moment, i'm maxing out my 89-91 maf meter...and only running 94-95mph...and putting down around 170rwhp at a weight of about 2800lbs. Could he be spraying in lower gears??

DCmina

shouldn't you run 14s with 170 rwhp pp13bnos?

pp13bnos

iTrader: (1)

I should be able to. Its all a matter of traction.

Keep in mind, that a t2 making 170rwhp (Very common) makes broad power....from 2.5k~3k and up. Its easy for the car to stay within the broad power band of a turbo. My n/a starts making good hp at about 5.5k~6k...peaking around 7.5k. At the strip i shift at 8,500rpms, as its still making great power up there. The same amount of power that the turbo car makes...but just for a short period of time. It makes it difficult to launch the thing, and stay within the power band. I usually launch at around 4k~4.5k...then wait for the motor to make hp...all the while the other person is pulling away...

Infact, the time before last that i was down at Woodburn drag strip, (When i ran my 15.1) there was 87-88 t2 with an exaust, and intake running 7lbs (thats what he claimed.) of boost..trapping anywhere from 93-95mph. But he was running 14.5s-14.7s. We where trapping very similar mph...but he was alot faster.

If i where to realy want to get into the 14s, i'd go buy some slicks or drag radials. I would think that i could run in the 14.5s area...but its just a guess with nothing to back it up.

CJ

peejay

Please explain how having a bad launch makes the car more powerful.

Your "logic" is so flawed I don't know whether to laugh at you or weep for you.

GLHS

The 1/8 and 1/4 times are 2 different tracks and quite a bit different elevations.

My car weighs probadly 600 lbs lighter than your car, maybe more like 500lbs. I am also running 14" wheels, so I assume my torque to the ground is much higher than your car also.

I do have a small NOS spray on the car, but took it off, cause I can't get traction now, and was very dangerous hitting it at speed. It would kick the car sideways and spins the wheels and lose races for me. So I ditched it.

I know of a guy who is on this forum, who I have raced on the street and I have beat him, and he claims he runs 14.5 @ 93 , but yet I pull on him hard, and have to let off the gas to keep us side by side. I do this, cause he is a buddy of mine, and no sense in whipping your friends ya know

PJ RX-7

Actually, I think I know what he's talking about. Whether he's referring to manual or auto I don't know, but on autos, a very common thing to do when launching is to unlock the torque converter. Now, I have a 93' T/A, which has 330 ft-lbs @ the fly. With that kind of torque, wheel spin is inevitable. When the wheels are spinning, of course you're "stuck" there, but when the car finally launches, is shifts much harder and faster.
You get this kind of a jerking motion that throws you back in your seat. Maybe that's what he's talking about. If not, then I don't agree with his statement, either.

As far as whether he actually ran those times, I don't know much about the RX-7, but I do know that with every car there's some stupid myth that people commonly refer to as a "(factory) freak". Strangely enough, its a proven fact that cars built on Tuesday-Thursday are built better than cars built on Friday-Monday. But this still doesn't explain how one car is dynoing at 330HP and the other car with the same engine is dynoing at 305HP. (LS1) So for those of you who want to believe it, maybe his car is a "freak" and thats why its trapping so high.

Like I said before, I don't know much about these cars yet, so I'm going to remain neutral on the subject. I'm not saying he did, and I'm not saying he didn't.

deadRX7Conv

Only weigh 203?? Some slimfast would get you over 100mph or into the 14's--no problem

Are you powershifting or letting up on the gas for the shifts? Letting up before the end of the 1/4 or keeping it buried until the end?
Hows the clutch holding out? Any slippage?
Whats the powerband feel like? When does it kick in? Any bog between shifts? Transmission gearing feel OK? What rearend ratio? What rpm are you shifting at?
Have you raced at any other tracks? Tire size?
And above all, are you having fun? If so, to hell with everybody else.

During a race, there are way too many variables that could effect mph/time.... Anyone assuming that 15's at ~100 isn't possible needs to spend more time at the track.

pp13bnos

iTrader: (1)

So you're saying that your car weights in at around 2500lbs with you in it? Mine wieghts in at around 2800-2900lbs with me in it, depending on how much stuff i feel like removnig. (I have daily access to cert. scales.) So in reality...you should be able pull a higher trap speed/time with great ease.

I say, go to a real track that gives you time slips. Come back here, and post what you're realy running. I gotta go with PJ on this one.......sounds like the track is'nt up to normal specs.

CJ

GLHS

I would assume this track is very accurate, they are having the NOPI Drag wars next weekend.

I may race, or I may show a car, I haven't decided yet.

I really do wish they would give out slips, but its Club 1320 and they have no rules on that night, and its pro tree setup, so I bet my bad et.s are the cause of having no warning that the light is turning green.

However their is 2 things that happen at these tracks that may matter, may not.

The 1/8 track is test and tune and they run professional rails their and they all work on their reations and 60 ft times etc. They clean this track.

The 1/4 track, when we go is all street cars, so I assume the track is not as hot and it probadly has more oil from drippy engines and water, from A/C and most likey has alot more loose rubber laying on it. I don't really know, if this would matter or not, but I assume the oil and water, is causing the massive wheel spins in second and half of third gear.

I read above that someone stated something about having a " freak car". I find that funny as my friends have said the same thing to me.

They have all replaced several engines, I have yet to replace this one, and all I have ever broken that was major, was the main shaft in the trans, I snapped it in half, being stupid and doing a 8,000 rpm shift and hold the gas pedal to the floor and hitting second snapped it right in half, instanly.

deadRX7Conv

When parts break, that means you are driving it right
Powershifting! Was that with the T2 tranny of a NA tranny?

GLHS

That was the original N/A tranny I snapped, and then I replaced the whole deal.

203 lbs and need slim fast

I was around 250 when I was in the Army, but not running all day and lifting weights at night has, well made me shrink some, but buy no means slim fats, **** if was any skinnier, I would blow away in a brisk wind, geez, I am only 5' 10", not 5' 2"

wpgrexx

[
203 lbs and need slim fast

I was around 250 when I was in the Army, but not running all day and lifting weights at night has, well made me shrink some, but buy no means slim fats, **** if was any skinnier, I would blow away in a brisk wind, geez, I am only 5' 10", not 5' 2" [/B][/QUOTE]


that's hilarious, being 203 does not need slim fast, someone under 203 needs to eat a little more and maybe get away from the forum for 20 min a day. just kidding!sort of.......

cbrock

iTrader: (1)

Dude, Peejay is pissing me off. Perhaps I should shed a tear for you. Having a bad launch doesn't make a car more powerful (I am writing this in english right? You're not Dutch or something...or perhaps you speak Pikey). What I'm saying here is that on a stick car you need to spin the tires to get the RPM's up to get to max torque range. On an auto car you just need to get it to hook, no spin...let the torque converter do the work to get the rpm up. On a bad launch like my T2 had when I ran it, it bogged and got a poor 60ft...ok, so read...bad launch. Melting the tires is a bad launch too, but bad in a different way. Bogging (almost stalling) launch, the car ran a 14.7 @ 98mph. Well now you have to look at it. High mph/slow ET. 60ft 2.4 sec. That MPH is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY off for that ET. With a proper launch it'd probably be more around a 14.0 @ 98 mph. Now what I'm saying is that if I or GLHS drops the 60ft to, say a 2.0..you'll drop a min of .4 sec in the 1/4, if not more. However, you get less time to get up to those super high MPH (see talon example below). Where the MPH gets built up is in those big smoking launches (read supra style 700hp cars) They run HUGE mph but some only hit low 12's but MPH would indicate 10sec power. Could the car actually run 10's? Probably not...like the guy with the TA said, they melt the tires and kinda get a head start on the MPH but slower on the ET. I guess you could use an AWD talon as an example too. My friends run about 12.7 @ 101mph....about 2mph away from my 14.7 sec run. Do I really think my RX could hit 12's...no F'in way. They get that huge 1/4 mile advantage with 1.6-1.7sec 60 ft's on street tires. Lastly, all these cars are turbo car and make a FLAT torque curve for a much more powerful vehicle. So basicly, for our slower readers, the Flux Capacitor isn't working properly and the time continum (sp???) is all F'd, making your car seem faster than it really is. That, or you painted it yellow.


Peejay..I'd love to bracket race you sometime...I'll smoke you with my 82 olds, if you're ever around Milan, Norwalk, Quaker or 42..give me a buzz. I'll bring out my aqua-mist, 2.42 open diff 307 monster and run my number all day. If you wanna go heads up I'll waste the gas in the RX on your sorry ***. You must be an education major.

I'm surprised no one has put up that special olympics retard picture.

peejay

Ok, I see what's going on. You're looking at it all wrong.

Spinning the tires hurts the acceleration up to about 30 mph. After that, it doesn't matter since the tires are hooked up.

Now, let's figure that with a good launch it takes 2 seconds to get to 30mph. With a bad launch, it takes 3 seconds. Both cars are hooked-up after 30mph.

Acceleration from 30 to terminal speed will be THE SAME for both cars (asuming everything else identical) because once the tires are hooked up, acceleration is defined by the engines power vs. the weight of the car and wind/rolling resistance.

cbrock

iTrader: (1)

hmm..double posted..see below

cbrock

iTrader: (1)

Oh my Christ, my head hurts reading your posts. There are 2 kinds of bad launchs...one with engine RPMS low and one with RPMs high. So the one with the low RPM launch rolls out of the start block and is basicly creeping down the track. Meanwhile our high RPM car is doing a sweet smoke show. Car A is already *hooked* and is starting to build up RPM and getting into the torque curve. He now has less than 1/4 mile to achieve the cars ideal 1/4 time/speed. What screwed him was a poor 60ft and not being in the powerband. Car B is in a whole different boat. His car is in the sweet-spot, but he has overcome the traction circle for those tires. He's building up energy (not really moving though), much like if he were to slip the clutch..once he catches traction he's going to release that and start hauling dick down the track. Lets also look at the *ideal* car, car C. Car C leaves with an excellent 60ft. He might get a 3-4 car length lead on the other 2 cars. Car A will pretty much have a scrapped run and won't be able to catch car C. Car B will still be far behind car C but will start to chase him down.
This can be seen in the NHRA superstock class. The automatic cars leave with HUGE wheelstands, the stick car just spins the tires. The auto car is out ahead of the stick car....REMEMBER the engines in these cars are identical, same weight, same HP...just different trannies. The stick car is running down the auto car. They both cross the line at approx the same TIME but the stick car has about 20 more MPH behind it. SAME CARS...different launch style....WAAAAY different MPH. Now, I know you'll probably say..but doh, it's an automatic. These are race transmissions and don't have nearly the same losses that you'd see between a stock stick or automatic car. Say the stick car had 4% less power loss? That wouldn't even come close to finding 20MPH in the 1/4. MPH should really not be used to judge ET.


Can't wait to hear the reply on this one...sigh

GLHS

I think we have forgot one of the most important aspects of all of this, my car is running 14" rims, which increases the amount of torque to the ground, also my rear end ratio is tighter with a 4:10. Now I am comparing this to a standard T2. Which is 16" rims and 3:90 gears.

With my tighter gears and smaller rims, I can pull out the hole faster, than a T2 at the same RPM when starting. I can also pull RPMs up faster being the rims have increased the torque applied and the gears will also help this.

Now I can sit in the same spot and not move one inch forward, if I rev it up to 4500 and dump it, all I get is a little back and forth motion.

something else we have forgotten, max torque from a RX7 is not @ 6000 rpm, its more like 3800. I may be wrong, maybe someone can shead more light on that one.

cbrock

iTrader: (1)

The N/A's are far from being civic like in the torque curve...not exactly sure what it is. I do know it won't be nearly as wide and flat as a turbo car. As for having a freak motor, that could be true. All these motors were hand built, so you could have a more blue printed motor than the other guys. Just a question? How many miles are on this motor? BTW T2's have a 4.10 rear. What is your tire size...you know you can have a 14" and 16" wheel, but different sized tires to get the same overall diameter. But lets say you have a 14" rim with a shorter overall diameter. You will have a quicker ET but lose mph. Use my olds example. 2.42 rear end...17.0 @84mph. That thing is a MPH bandit cuz of that rear end.

Peejay? I went to your website...is yours the car that says got earplugs? I think I saw your car at the sportcompact nats a year or two ago...how far did you make it (brackets if I remember??). I made it to the semi-finals (bracket 2)but had a dud light on my last run. I was running my fwd nissan stanza at the time. What part of cleveland are you in? I'm at Toledo finishing up my ME degree working at TRW in Detroit in the vehicle development group. My car is in Hudson, Ohio about 30 min south of Downtown.

GLHS

I would think a better question would be how much compression does it show, not how many miles are on it.

I see what you are getting at, but the amount of miles only matter if you don't change the oil enough, or don't run oil in the gas.

I always change the oil before 1000 miles, because I can feel the power loss, which returns will a oil change.

I have run premix for almost 10years in this engine, and it really makes the engine smoother in the higher RPMs and allows for the RPMs to come up faster.


T2 have a 4:10 rear end, damn I always thought they were 3:90. Well never too old to learn something new.

How is that Dodge running???

cbrock

iTrader: (1)

I think his valve stem seals are on the way out the door. He says he used 1q in 750 miles and that it smoked pulling away from a light and on startup. It still runs hot..about 220 on the gauge. He says that the thermostat (watching on the gauge) seems to open a different times. Told him get a new thermostat and use the lowest temp that autozone sells (180 I believe). His water pump seems to pump well enough and I know the head gasket is ok (no bubbles in the system with the cap off revving the motor, no loss in water unless it boils out). If he replaces that thermo and it doesn't help, I'm going to assume the cat is clogged, causing the low boost and undo stress on the motor, increasing running temps.

Ever change seals on while the head is on the car? I've done it in my AWD talon and it was kind of a bitch, but not toooooo horible. How are these motors? Oh and the auto T2's had 3.90's. Later.

GLHS

what seals do you mean?

These engines are very bullet proof, and handle high boost very well.

Loosing oil, have you check the pressure side of the turbo? Check the piping before the throttle body, if its got oil in it, the turbo she be gone.

Valve seals, you say. You can get better bronze ones, from MP I think.

Try this link http://www.thedodgegarage.com/
or this one http://www.relentlessracing.com/

He sells new parts at the lower link.

His name is gary donovan and he is a wizard with these cars. Very good guy. He has helped me many times.

Does the engine have alot of blow by? It really sounds like rings are gone.