HKSTurboII

Stainless is too heavy...........

nashman69g

iTrader: (3)

you could use the PVC...as my friend with the Turbo S-10 did (yes you heard me right www.turbos-10.com )...of course the PVC should only be used as a temporary solution...he used it for about a month under 8 psi of boost...the only problem that he had was the rubber hosing that held some of the pieces together kept poping off form the boost pressure as there was nothing for it to hold onto--ie no lip!! another option is to use exaust pipe...go to a muffler shop and have them bend the joints for u... I know its not mandrel bend but for a temp fix it should work to!! you could have it painted to look better!

**edit**sorry 6 psi

HKSTurboII

Instead of using rubber connectors at every joint, you could use the PVC joints an seal them properly, and they would be able to withstand much more boost pressure. The only rubber or silicone connections needed would be to attach to the turbo and the intercooler. Just a thought...........

slidingsky

Try putting a PVC pipe in your oven at 250. If it holds up and doesnt flex you should try it.
I dont think it will. 6 psi is lame for an FC. No point in running a FMIC if you are under 12psi, right?
You really should do this right.

Trav

Been thinking about the PVC solution myself for awhile now. If nothing else, this stuff is cheap enough that you can experiment with it and get the fitment right. Then when you have everything connected and are happy w/ the setup, go and buy the real piping you're going to use. I dunno, maybe the cost savings of not wasting any metal pipe would be offset w/ the extra PVC, but I doubt it. Esp. knowing how much I want to fool around and try to fit everything before I decide...

PVC obviously withstand the pressure w/o problem since most peoples water pressure far exceeds anything we'd ever run for boost. Temp would be somewhat of a concern, but if you're viewing it as a temparary solution anyway, or wrap as has been mentioned, you should be fine for awhile...

Sounds like a great low buck deal until you can find/afford something better!!

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

You could always sand a lip into the PVC for the hose clamps.

$150FC

DOesn't PVC degrade over time and put some gas or particles in your engine?

mach3turbo

http://www.jblmk3.com/

Sorry about another Supra related post, but this guy has been using PVC in his Supra for a while and it seems to hold up pretty well. He is boosting ~15 psi at the intake manifold with the intake charge going through dual parallel stock intercoolers.

I have heard of a couple others in the Supra community using PVC for intercooler hard piping without problems.

A couple of the concerns brought up while discussing using PVC as intercooler piping was the issue of deformation due to heat and the plastic emitting gases that may be harmful as it is heated up.

Bambam7

Woah........ Ok...can't beleive this thread has gone on this far without some real input!!!
PVC sucks for IC piping.
PVC=PolyVinyl Choride.
From what I remeber, part of the degredation process for PCV under heat is releasing chlorINE gas. That's fairly corrosive. I wouldn't want that going into the engine.
Why make something that's only going to last for a little while anyways???? It's so easy to go by aluminum tube (that's what I have) and either get a few peices bent up, buy a few mandrel bends from a place like summitracing.com, or go to a part place and buy a few peices of prebent radiator hose, and cut it up accordingly for the couplings/bends.
Don't use PVC. It looks ugly, won't last, degrades under heat.. and the elbows neck down like crazy inside and have sharp edges in them.
Also- it'll get really brittle in time, and unless it's totally isolted by vibration (which solid PVC DOESN'T do) it will crack like crazy.


Just say NO to PVC.

Trav

Sorry, but did you read the above posts?? Quite a few guys have already been using it for some time w/o degradation, so your "real input" seems unfounded at this point.

Also, as I mentioned and several others, probably not the best long-term solution, but why not for the short term until you figure out your final setup.

Finally, you said it's easy to go buy alum tubing, get it mandrel bent, etc. Maybe where you are it is -- please be careful making general statements like this. A lot of guys (esp. in smaller towns) don't have access to some of the larger resources like others do.

Bigretardhead

well, I just went to my local hardware store, and they said the PVC they had would probably be good to only 100* F. that's a little too low for me.

at home depot, however, I know they at least had 170* F PVC. maybe I'll go check that out.


right now, I'm going to check out exhaust tubing. I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet though.

thanks for the input.

Chris Ng

Aside from the 1 person posting about a supra using PVC, the rest of the posters mentioned using PVC for their TID mod.... I think you have to give this a bit more thought.. While the PVC will withstand the temps inside your engine bay, Using it for your TID will only subject it to minimal temps.. the air going through the PVC TID has not yet been compressed by the turbo.. therfore, it has not yet been heated....
Now, take the same PVC pipe and use on your compressor outlet, before the IC... What temps do you think the air is going to be at as it heads towards the IC? ... I'll give you an answer to that question.. Running anything more that 12 psi of boost, and monitoring my intake temperatures with my Wolf3d, I am seeing temps as high as 95 degrees C AFTER the IC (This is with the stock top mount IC).. 195 degrees F ... How hot do you think the air is coming from the turbo before it goes through the IC to be cooled? I'm willing to be it's quite a bit higher than 220F... PVC will NOT last under those conditions, especially when you factor in the fact that the pipe also has boost pressure running through it

Bigretardhead

hmm...... exhaust piping is only like $2.10 per foot. I think I'll just go with that. even though the supra people have tested PVC, I'm still kinda worried about it.
plus, the exhaust bends are actually cheaper than the PVC ones. hmm..

anyone know where you can get the little bump things put on the ends of the pipes?




oh, and also, what do you do with the vac lines that go to the stock IC? just cap them off?

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

My local ace hardware store can do the rings on the end of the pipe, check out your local hardware stores as well.

Jerk_Racer

Just don't do it? Why? If you have to think twice about doing it, then don't. Bambam7 is completely correct. If his answer wasn't what anybody wants to hear, that doesn't mean it's not right.

Sure, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt. Using PVC is for i/c piping might be OK for a very short time, but it's not OK for anything long term. Short term would be to have your car up and running while you are getting some real i/c piping made. Stainless steel i/c piping isn't that heavy and it's pretty easy to weld. Whoopty doo, another 5# or so but it'll last next to forever and everybody that sees it won't be calling you an idiot (or worse) as soon as you're out of sight.

It's easy to get piping where ever anybody lives. It's called - THE INTERNET -. http://www.alaskancopper.com/ is local for me, but guess what? They send what you need through the mail if you go through the effort to contact them. It's not as convenient as stopping by in person, but if you live in BFE you have to do what you have to do if you want to do it right.

Still want PVC over metal? Well, if you get **** cheap, you get cheap ****.

mach3turbo

I never said that PVC is the way to go - just that it has been done before and successfully too. This guy has been using this setup for at least a couple of years continuously so I think that speaks a little bit about the longevity.

Myself, I would go with the exhaust tubing and get some mandrel bends. It would be a bit heavier, but it would also be much stronger. I dont know if I need to have metal hardpipes since I dont plan to boost much past 15-18 lbs, but it also would be more resistant to damage from vibration and heat stress.

cbrock

iTrader: (1)

check ebay for "aluminum tubing" I picked up 10 15" 2.5 OD sections of pipe (.055 wall) for 18.00 shipped. You'll probably have to heat it with a torch to anneal it a little before you bend. I'm looking into have "thestainlessworks" do up some mandrel bends for me. I think they charge about 12.00 a bend.

Fatty_FC3S

If you cant afford the extra 40-50 bucks for mild steel piping over ghetto pvc that WONT HOLD UP, then you should sell your Turbo FC and buy a bicycle. You wont be able to afford the general maintenence on the FC.

PVC doesnt flow for crap on the inside. Have you even looked inside a 45 degree bend with pipes connected to it? The airflow is NOT smooth whatsoever, lots of sharp edges and fluctuating diameters. Add this to the fact that it will "cave in" where the hose clamps are tightened onto the pipe when heat is introduced into the equation and any person with the IQ of at least 82 can see that its a poor solution.

Trav

I agree with all that is being said, my only point is that it should work short term -- I would never expect to use it long term. It is well within most peoples grasp and abilities to work w/ PVC to mock up what you want to do and then go and order the corresponding SS or alum parts.

Most folks can't weld, I know I can't. A lot of folks don't have access to a machine that will do the mandrel bends. PVC however comes in most bends that you would need and is very easy to come by. I probably have enough on hand to do most of my configuration already due to other plumbing jobs around the house.

I just think it's funny that in one sentence folks are saying yeah spring the extra 40-50 bucks for decent piping when it's first off probably more than that, but giving you the benefit of the doubt lets say that it is -- maybe I just need to do more looking.

But these are also the same folks who will cry about buying a good walbro pump for 100 bucks or whining about the cost of a couple of AN fittings, or better yet go w/ the ghetto fiero fan because it costs 50 bucks less than a quality good looking fan. Hey, it works, and if you're on a budget why not. I guess it just goes to show peoples priorities are different.

Anyway, not badgering anyone or disagreeing. I wholeheartedly agree w/ the above comments, I'm just saying, temp solution only until you can figure out the configuration. It should hold up long enough to drive around the block.

Bottom line, the question (iirc) was will it work? sure, for a few miles at least.

CrispyRX7

iTrader: (139)

Only two persons with sound advice - BamBam/Trev.
The chlorine gas issue aside (but very important problem) PVC is not suitable for intake piping simply because of the heat issues. PVC has a transition temperature of about 240deg, i.e., where it goes semisolid. I used PVC as a very temporary pipe to simply get my car (an FD) to the fab shop for real AL pipe fabrication. It was a 45 minute freeway drive with no hard driving. I boosted the car once (12psi) just to see if it would hold for the drive. It did hold. But after the drive I took a picture of what the PVC elbows looked like. PVC for piping between intake filter and turbo *might* be fine, if in a cool area of the engine bay, but anything downstream of the turbo and you are asking for trouble. In short don't be stupid, use the right materials for the right job and just because so-and-so said it works for them who is to say they are right? Simply too many lemmings in this world.
FWIW
Crispy
- and yes I own an FC as well

Boost Lee

iTrader: (3)

And that's the end of that.

puppybear

I've meet that guy, his car is pretty strong. He lives around here and tried to get me to race on the hwy. Then he followed me to work and we talked a wile. Haven't seen him again sense.

All usless infromation i know, but thought i'd share

HKSTurboII

That white PVC is garbage! I'm talking about the black stuff. It has a much higher tolerance to heat...........

CrispyRX7

iTrader: (139)

HKSTurboII,
Err....you might want to be a bit more specific then. I'd hazard a guess half the folks on the thread were thinking the generic "white" PVC pipe when posting. I use the "black stuff" for an intake on my tow vehicle. But without a spec I sure as hell wouldn't use it for IC piping.
But it sounds feasable, after all many manufacturers use plastics for OE intakes and some even for manifolds but "much higher tolerance for heat..." might not be good enough reason to use it for for some. Me included.
Regards,
Crispy

Bigretardhead

can't beleive that lasted so long. well, I'm conviced(since 2 days ago). I'll just be using exhaust tubing.