Putting a new motor together..
07-25-01, 10:01 PM
#1
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: LA.,California USA
Posts: 1,611
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Putting a new motor together..
How hard is it to put a new motor together?..I have all the parts i need to put a new 87TII together. New rotor housings, sides, gaskets, & apex seals!..I will be using the same rotors though (clean). I bought a video on how to rebuild a 13B rotary engine and by watching the builder and seems simple.
People with experience:
What do i have to be aware of when putting it together?..
What causes end play???...
People with experience:
What do i have to be aware of when putting it together?..
What causes end play???...
07-25-01, 10:21 PM
#3
Just from my experience, you are about to enter HELL.
I have torn down 2 12a's.
they are still in pieces.
Since you have new parts; it should be not quite so bad.
The rotary engine is like a stack of pancakes.
Each layer builds on top of the last.
First you need to put your front interm. housing on top of your font housing.
Then, using vasoline you have stored in the fridge overnight, seal the apex seals and such to the rotor. This is very important that you get them tight; because the rotor has to be placed inside the housing very carefully or else you'll lose all the small pieces.
assuming you have checked clearances on all oil/apex/side/springs; now you put the intermediate housing on.
But you need to put the water seals in place first.
use that vasoline to seal them down tight; and use some form-a-gasket in order for it to seal correctly. This has to be done rather quickly as the weld will set up fast.
insert the eccentric shaft. Get all the gears and bearings in the front housing lined up. This will be a royal pain.
Next layer, put on the 2nd rotor housing. Insert your prepared rotor. Put on the rear housing with the seals and formagasket.
Tighten down those tensioner rods QUICK!!! BUT, tighten each bolt a little at a time, a little more at a time. . .you get the idea.
This will prevent any gaps in the housings due to improper torquing.
Whew! Your finished. Now go to www.Mazspeed.com and get some advice from people who have actually done this. They will help you out more than I can.
Best of luck,
Joe
P.S. Make sure you mention its a 2nd gen. These guys dont' suffer fools too gladly. :p
I have torn down 2 12a's.
they are still in pieces.
Since you have new parts; it should be not quite so bad.
The rotary engine is like a stack of pancakes.
Each layer builds on top of the last.
First you need to put your front interm. housing on top of your font housing.
Then, using vasoline you have stored in the fridge overnight, seal the apex seals and such to the rotor. This is very important that you get them tight; because the rotor has to be placed inside the housing very carefully or else you'll lose all the small pieces.
assuming you have checked clearances on all oil/apex/side/springs; now you put the intermediate housing on.
But you need to put the water seals in place first.
use that vasoline to seal them down tight; and use some form-a-gasket in order for it to seal correctly. This has to be done rather quickly as the weld will set up fast.
insert the eccentric shaft. Get all the gears and bearings in the front housing lined up. This will be a royal pain.
Next layer, put on the 2nd rotor housing. Insert your prepared rotor. Put on the rear housing with the seals and formagasket.
Tighten down those tensioner rods QUICK!!! BUT, tighten each bolt a little at a time, a little more at a time. . .you get the idea.
This will prevent any gaps in the housings due to improper torquing.
Whew! Your finished. Now go to www.Mazspeed.com and get some advice from people who have actually done this. They will help you out more than I can.
Best of luck,
Joe
P.S. Make sure you mention its a 2nd gen. These guys dont' suffer fools too gladly. :p
Last edited by Suparslinc; 07-25-01 at 10:32 PM.
07-26-01, 09:48 AM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Montgomery, Al.
Posts: 724
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've read through the proceedure more than once in my Haynes manual and from what I can tell it doesn't look too incredibly difficult, it just need to be done pretty quickly so everything seals properly.
Thanks for the Vaseline trick, I've always wondered how they keep all the seals in place when you drop the rotor in place.
Thanks for the Vaseline trick, I've always wondered how they keep all the seals in place when you drop the rotor in place.
07-29-01, 10:13 AM
#5
Passenger
Posts: n/a
I went tru the process about 3 years ago on my 86, (I will never try this again WHAT THE HELL WAS I THNKING)
I followed the (haynes 1419) and another thing that helped a lot was the fact that I took carefull notes during dissasembly, of every part position, bolt i removed...etc. then it was a matter of following my notes backwards and the haynes manual, All was pretty clear the only tricky part was getting the side seals clearences, I had to use sand paper on them.
I also used gasket sealer on the water seals etc.
well 20,000 miles and 3 years and everything still works...But the fact that I spend those two weeks wondering wether I threw away $1000+ on seals and gaskets for nothing. I believe that the luck factor had a lot to do when you take into account how many thins can go wrong.
I rather get a rebuilt core from the dealer around $2000 and you get warranty, and its just a matter of bolting on the assesories
my two cents
I followed the (haynes 1419) and another thing that helped a lot was the fact that I took carefull notes during dissasembly, of every part position, bolt i removed...etc. then it was a matter of following my notes backwards and the haynes manual, All was pretty clear the only tricky part was getting the side seals clearences, I had to use sand paper on them.
I also used gasket sealer on the water seals etc.
well 20,000 miles and 3 years and everything still works...But the fact that I spend those two weeks wondering wether I threw away $1000+ on seals and gaskets for nothing. I believe that the luck factor had a lot to do when you take into account how many thins can go wrong.
I rather get a rebuilt core from the dealer around $2000 and you get warranty, and its just a matter of bolting on the assesories
my two cents
07-30-01, 12:36 AM
#7
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: LA.,California USA
Posts: 1,611
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Mykl
I've read through the proceedure more than once in my Haynes manual and from what I can tell it doesn't look too incredibly difficult, it just need to be done pretty quickly so everything seals properly.
Thanks for the Vaseline trick, I've always wondered how they keep all the seals in place when you drop the rotor in place.
I've read through the proceedure more than once in my Haynes manual and from what I can tell it doesn't look too incredibly difficult, it just need to be done pretty quickly so everything seals properly.
Thanks for the Vaseline trick, I've always wondered how they keep all the seals in place when you drop the rotor in place.
Trending Topics
08-17-01, 10:31 AM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Omaha,Nebraska,USA
Posts: 364
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is my first experience with ANY car.. and I found it pretty simple... In my case, my problem was just TIME.. I took a bit to get the parts I needed, It took a good month just to get them to me (stupid people didn't ship them on time grr) and I was without my car for 2 months.. But since you have your parts ready, you shouldn't have that problem,...
Most importantly. just be patient.. You KNOW anything that can go bad, WILL!!! I havn't heard of or seen a perfect rebuild and installation without lots of bad things happeneing... But you get passed them... Cursing helps a lot I found =)
Then just like everyone said, go with your FSM and install parts layer by layer... Once you get the acual CORE rebuilt, the rest is easy... The core is a lot of aligning seals.. making sure you DONT PINCH A WATER SEAL!!! oil control rings on Rotors go a certain way.. stuff like that..
I had 2 friends helping me.. so we just held 1 apex seal each when we placed rotors into the housings... Then checked to make sure we got it right....
Easy as cake... You can have it taken apart and rebuilt in 5 hours if you know what you are doing.... took me that long the 2nd time =)
Most importantly. just be patient.. You KNOW anything that can go bad, WILL!!! I havn't heard of or seen a perfect rebuild and installation without lots of bad things happeneing... But you get passed them... Cursing helps a lot I found =)
Then just like everyone said, go with your FSM and install parts layer by layer... Once you get the acual CORE rebuilt, the rest is easy... The core is a lot of aligning seals.. making sure you DONT PINCH A WATER SEAL!!! oil control rings on Rotors go a certain way.. stuff like that..
I had 2 friends helping me.. so we just held 1 apex seal each when we placed rotors into the housings... Then checked to make sure we got it right....
Easy as cake... You can have it taken apart and rebuilt in 5 hours if you know what you are doing.... took me that long the 2nd time =)
08-17-01, 07:33 PM
#9
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: LA.,California USA
Posts: 1,611
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanx man!..As of now im only missing all the lubricant and sealant stuff!..This sunday im gonna go ahead and clean the rotors and have them measured by a friend of mine who works for a rotary shop. Yknow i was watching a video on how to rebuild a 13B and the guy put a rubber band around the rotor to hold the NEW APEX SEALS that he instald. Pretty good idea!
I will let you guys know how the adventure went. =)
I will let you guys know how the adventure went. =)
08-18-01, 04:47 PM
#10
HAILERS
Join Date: May 2001
Location: FORT WORTH, TEXAS,USA
Posts: 20,563
Likes: 0
Received 21 Likes
on
19 Posts
Just a small word of caution that may not make sense until you reach the point of installing the apex seal springs under the apex seal. When I get the apex seals they have a triangular end piece that is glued to the apex seal. When I put or rather shove the apex seal springs under the apex seal, once and a while the triangular end piece comes unglued. Never phased me in the past. Just took fifteen minutes to get some eastman 910 and glue that puppy back on. Continued on with the installation. Well.......about 2yrs after rebuilding my 87 it started pumping water out the overflow. Took it apart and found that corrosion had eated thru one of the sides of a water groove. Ok. Was not something I did wrong. Just should have inspected the walls of the seal grooves better. I set the engine aside for a year. Today I started cleaning it up for a rebuild because I aquired a new used rear housing. Bottom line is I notice that the triangular piece is still glued to the apex seal. Should not be so. I thought the heat would have broken it loose. Would have seperated. Did Not.
10-30-02, 05:39 PM
#11
Rotary Enthusiast
I used Atkins Apex seals on my rebuild. They are a LOT easier to install than Mazda's. The corner piece stays in place even without glue. Just make sure those factory corner pieces don't get stuck between the housings when closing it. Superglue will do just fine in case you want to glue them. Isert the seal just a little then puth the large spring in place, slide it in some more then insert the small spring, slide them down and then put some supergle on the corner piece, press down on it for a few seconds ant it will stay in place. They should come apart when torquing the engine.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
turbo-minivan
General Rotary Tech Support
69
02-04-16 12:29 AM