Robftw

iTrader: (1)

The black/white wire has 12 volts to it with the key on.

before i did this, i pulled the ground for 30 seconds (to reset the ecu codes) put the ground back on the battery and the car started right up, and went to 3000rpm as it should.

However it shut of nearly 3 seconds later, i'm wondering if this is just gasoline fumes from previous start up attempts or if they are trying to fire.

Robftw

iTrader: (1)

Okay when i unplug the 4 light green wires from the ECU i take a jumper wire and have a friend tap it to the floor of the car right under the ECU (we sanded it clean, nice shiny metal) and the primary injectors fire.

The car will start up immediately... so i guess its a ground issue? is there an easy fix for this?

satch

iTrader: (1)

When the car is starting and then running the ECU removes the 12 volts on the Light Green wires and places a pulsing ground instead which fires the respective injectors. The problem could be a fault of the ECU but it's not written in stone. Have you tried starting the car w/the fuel check connector jumpered?

Robftw

iTrader: (1)

I haven't yet, i will do that now

Robftw

iTrader: (1)

Same as before, refuses to start

satch

iTrader: (1)

You said the primary injector fired when you tested them. Did it just make a sound or could you see a mist or fuel in the rotor housing? Do you have a spare CAS by chance?

Robftw

iTrader: (1)

I don't have a spare CAS, they made a sound and i could visibly see a small sprits of fuel

Also, is the ECU grounded to the chassis of the car, or is it a wire? because i just looked behind it and the 2 nuts where the ECU mounts to the chassis are missing the mount rattles up and down on the studs.

To clarify... The ECU mounts to a metal frame. All nuts are present here:

The frame that mounts to the chassis, is missing the nuts, is this what grounds out the ECU?

satch

iTrader: (1)

The ECU is grounded from the main ground off of the UIM.

The injectors might be releasing some fuel but maybe some is not enough. If you don't mind pulling the CAS out and resetting the timing you could test whether the ECU is firing the primaries or not. If you do this then disconnect the plugs to the coils which contain the Black/Yellow wires to prevent the coif from firing and you could leave one of the plugs off of the front rotor and w/the key to on spin the CAS and you should clearly hear the primaries click and expel fuel.

Your problem could also be caused by the fuel being cut off when the car starts up thus causing it to die. The Circuit Opening relay is located under the dash and to the right of the steering column and is Black and Yellow. The center wire top row has voltage w/key to on and is Black/White. Jumper this wire to the Blue/Green wire in the relay and this will bypass the relay and cause the fuel pump to receive constant voltage. If it's a fuel problem outside of the injectors then this will help to narrow it down.

Robftw

iTrader: (1)

i cant remove the CAS because i dont have my deep socket set here with me, was able to pull the cap off and there is no corrosion or anything in it.

I checked the circuit opening relay, no changes at all still wont start.

Robftw

iTrader: (1)

Hopefully tomorrow the local junkyard will have a CAS, (if) the injectors fire while turning it. Would it be alright to assume that the ECU is bad?

Another thing i should mention, there is a small rust hole in the ECU's general area (underneath it near the rocker to the right) there was a fair amount of moisture on the floor... maybe it shorted something out

satch

iTrader: (1)

The CAS provides the signal to the ECU to tell it when to fire so if they(the injectors) fire then the ECU is fine on that accord whether you use a newer CAS or not. If you use the ECU pinout values supplied in the FSM to check the ECU it would give you a heads up as to the condition of the ECU. You know the ECU is able to create spark so it's not problematic from that perspective.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

compression test
spray carb cleaner in the intake and see if it starts indicating there is spark but lack of fuel present
put a few ounces of oil into each chamber to see if it is severely flooded/washed out by now


if you are 100% sure it has spark and will not fire off of carb cleaner in the intake then it's obvious you have a severely flooded fuel washed engine or low compression, both are the same actually.

Robftw

iTrader: (1)

With a long jumper wire, tapping it to ground from inside the car i can get it to start and run, at about 500 rpm by rapidly tapping the injectors to ground.

I still don't know if this means the ECU or CAS is bad, and i dont have 350$ to spend on a new CAS.

if i hold the injector to ground after the car warms up, and keep it at about 4000 rpm it will continue to run until i release the ground

Robftw

iTrader: (1)

Cant edit:

That long jumper wire was wedged into the primary injectors LG +12v while it was still plugged into the ECU and then i grounded it by hand while cranking the car.

satch

iTrader: (1)

You certainly don't need a new CAS as the one you have would work just fine to test the ability of the injectors to fire by providing the necessary signal for the ECU to interpret.

When you supply the ground for the injector such as is supposed to be done by the ECU, you don't really know "how much fuel" is being injected relative to normal as you might be dumping more fuel than normal or the normal amount which would help to explain why you can manually keep the car running, but you don't know if you were able to exactly replicate the role of the ECU if the fuel released is actually "less" than what is needed, which would point to an injector problem.

Doing this test does "help" to rule out the fuel supply to the injectors to some extent, but it still doesn't rule out the injectors or the ECU. It's possible that the ECU is pulsing the proper ground, but not enough fuel is being released to start and run the engine which would point to it being an injector problem. You need to remove the CAS and don't fret putting it back in place as it is rather simple. When the CAS is pulled out so you can manually spin it you want to make sure that the coils don't fire (disconnect the plugs to the coils which house the Black/Yellow wires) so you could prevent the fuel from being ignited w/the spark plug removed from the hole as well as preventing the sound of the plugs from drowning out the sound of the injectors firing. So do this test w/the key to on to help ascertain whether the injectors are actually firing/clicking and releasing fuel too.

HAILERS2

A bit of a possibility the water thermo sensor is unplugged. That would result in toooooo littttttle fuel during start sequence..............in cool or cold weather.

Robftw

iTrader: (1)

60 degrees on average, but its getting cold at night winter is coming

Chris Boots

Car should stay running once it fires. Pop a vacuum line of the intake and squirt fuel through it while someone cranks. It should start and run if the injectors are actually firing. If you're getting spark the CAS should be fine. Have you considered the MAF? If it starts then dies, the MAF may be unplugged or bad. Without that impulse from the MAF the injectors would continue to fire. Also, you can take the injectors off and test them with a 9v battery. They will "click" when voltage is applied.

Robftw

iTrader: (1)

Finally got the LIM off, I was able to get the injectors off and check them today, everything works.. i even cleaned them in a sonic cleaner that i have.

I want to clean the MAF now and see what happens... but i cant figure out how to take this thing apart.. is it even meant to come apart?

satch

iTrader: (1)

You don't really need to take it apart and if you do you need to be careful with what you do to it. There is a method found in the FSM that tells you how to ohm test the various AFM terminal contacts and if the readings are within spec.

If the car is an NA then look at page 82 in the link.

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0Bzy...kNTM4&cindex=4

Robftw

iTrader: (1)

Well i give up, im selling the car

I've replaced the CAS, MAF, ECU and it still won't start.

Now its throwing codes that the OMP is bad, i've tried both ECUs same error code with each.

Chris Boots

such is an rx7, you kinda have to be devoted to the car in times like this in order to convince your self to keep it.

You tried pull starting it yet? You may have flooded it to the point of low compression. If you have spark, the timing is set right, the plugs are wet, and it hasn't fired... it's probably flooded.

Oh well, the next owner can try that.

Robftw

iTrader: (1)

Yeah i tried, un-flooding it a few times, there is no gas getting to the engine anyways, its always bone dry.

Just recently the spark plugs started to not fire either.

HAILERS2

OMP's and AFM's have nothing to do with the initial starting of the car. Sell the car like you said.

A stk car just needs all the wiring connected up and a good ENGINE fuse and EGI fuse(s)......good gas and a fuel pump that is running.

If the tach needle made small bumps when the engine was cranked over........I'd have bought a can of starter fluid and sprayed it into the afm/filer for two seconds max and started the engine.

Robftw

iTrader: (1)

I just put a new ECU in the car, the injectors now properly fire, and the coils spark, however it still will not run without the aid of starter fluid. And once its depleted it dies out.

The tach needle does bounce, and the fuses are all brand new. I purchased new ones when i got the car home.

I've gone over everything with a multimeter, everything has power where it needs to be, the resistances all check out too. It's driving me up the wall right now.

Like i said, i put the car up for sale i'm tired of messing with it