Tournapart

iTrader: (4)

Per Satch I am posting this...

I am trying to diagnose an issue with my 90 vert power windows, I bought the car with the power windows not working and I have no way of talking to the guy who owned before me

Both motors work when jumped both ways, the harness to the drivers switch has power as does the passenger (shows no power when I disconnect the driver switch, normal), the switches them selves I pulled apart and cleaned and they have continuity and change phase when they are switched. The fuse is obviously not blown

Additionally the power locks do not work (not sure if that's related), idiot cluster is intermittent, as I would expect, power antenna works fine, everything else works fine, doesn't have a stereo in it so I cant test that.

Now the only strange thing is that when I test the power feed connector (power to window motor from swtich) with the window motor unhooked so I can access the pins, it shows 11.9x volts on both legs, when I engage the switch for the window to go up one goes to 12.2x volts and the other is still at 11.9x volts and vice versa, now, considering it would appear that the switch is not grounding out properly, is that something wrong with the switch (dead?)? or a missing ground somewhere? I have two sets of driver and passenger switches, both do the same thing. They are both clean (I disassembled and cleaned them properly) and have proper continuity when phases change (switch engaged)

I am at the end of my technical understanding of the more systematic issue I may be having (grounds, additional inline connectors that are hidden, fuseable links not in the fuse box, etc) and was hoping someone could shed some light on this or bump me in the right direction.

Now I understand that its certainly feasible to conclude that both sets of switches may be bad, but, I wanted a pro to look at the symptoms before I just start throwing money at more switches

Thanks in advance

Tournapart

iTrader: (4)

Considering I have power and it would appear the wiring is good and the switches work, but may not be passing the amperage needed as Satch had noted, I was thinking of going the one touch route, cheaper than buying new switches and adds a few options. Thoughts?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hfm-wc1000/overview/

CrossfireCurt

iTrader: (2)

To me it doesn't sound like an issue with the switch itself - especially since it's happening to both sets and you cleaned them.

I think you're on the right track with it being a ground issue. Have you tried manually tapping into the ground and running it somewhere else on the car?

Tournapart

iTrader: (4)

I have an amp clamp meter, not sure how well it will pick up on small wires, but I am going to try that later to see if the motors are getting the amperage they need. I have not tried grounding out stuff on the switch itself, just jumping the motors with a 12v source and ground to make sure they work fine

But at the same time, I would imagine if the switch was working properly, it should show 0v on one leg and 12v on the other, where as it is showing voltage on both legs, with one slightly higher depending on if you engage the switch up or down. I have confirmed that the grounds in the connector show 0v

RXSpeed16

iTrader: (41)

+1 on the grounding. That .3v differential isn't enough to drive the motor, but it indicates the switch is doing something. Are you positive they are rx7 switches and not MPV ones that need to be re-pinned?

Also, who knows what the previous owner did to the harness, so double check it and the switch with the pinouts in the FSM. They're under the body electrical section.

Tournapart

iTrader: (4)

I am 90% sure, the are S4 switches, both sets, look exactly the same, inside and out. I've taken quite a few switches apart and cleaned them over the years

Will def check the pinouts, thanks. I'll report back when I do it (next couple of days) and update whether it worked or not

Tournapart

iTrader: (4)

As it turns out, I believe it was a shorted driverside motor. Upon a second test, it would not go up when 12v battery was directly applied. Still not sure why the passenger side didnt work though, the switches check out but I dont know if a shorted driverside motor would prevent proper passage of power to the passenger side switch and motor. The passenger side one goes down just fine, but going up its binding when 12v battery is applied. Either that motor is also going out or it needs a good cleaning and regrease.

In any event, I luckily have two complete spare vert doors, motors tested out good, so at some point I will swap them out. If I continue to have issues, I will document my efforts here.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

it's possible the driver motor is bad but it isn't a common thing to see. sounds more like an amperage issue from the junk 25 year old wiring.

it's best to do the relay mod and bypass the switches since most of the amperage is lost through them. even marginally functioning switches should make them work like new with the relays added. there's 3 contact points on each rocker, it's difficult to tell which of those 3 points isn't working just right.

Tournapart

iTrader: (4)

when I applied battery power to the one currently attached to the car, it would not roll up, I tested it the same way on the spare door I have and it worked

Definitely looking at the one-touch relay option

Tournapart

iTrader: (4)

Ben, is there a common thread between the power window and power lock distribution?

I am digging into this car again. As far as the windows go the drivers side window motor is definitely toast, so I have a replacement and will do that one, the passenger one is slow at one point, might be able to get away with just pulling, cleaning and regreasing the tracks

But at the same time, the power locks do not function at all, which led me to ask the question

anything you can offer here would be awesome

thanks

satch

iTrader: (1)

Edit: The locks use the Antenna fuse for power source for a coupe and the Defroster fuse on a convertible.

Tournapart

iTrader: (4)

Back to the power windows for now.

I verified that all of my switches work, I have a spare set as well, by testing their functionality in my 90 GXL.

I diagnosed the driverside motor/track as either dead or severely bound up, and the passenger side track was binding around half way and wouldn't go up anymore (direct power to each motor was used for diagnosis)

Luckily for me I have two mint vert doors, complete with panels, switches, electrical (one of them didnt even have the dealer plastic removed, it killed me to do it). Confirmed both motors and tracks worked flawlessly.

Swapped them out of each side. Still no power going to motors via my switches. So, I installed one of these guys on the driverside last night:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hfm-wc2000/overview/

Bingo, this effectively bypassed the window switch circuit and only pushes low amps through the actual switch for signal use only and the relay does the hard work, I am borrowing off of the door light circuit and its working perfectly, auto up, auto down.

I have a feeling there is some weird stuff going on in the electrical behind the dash or stuff in the doors I can't see. As I will be needing a new dash for this car soon anyway, I will do more investigation there as to what may have been causing the issue once I get one and do the swap

All that is left is for me to install the other one on the passenger side. Very easy installation, took me 20 minutes.

I will take some pictures of the passenger side installation and might do a DIY if there are enough people looking to do this with these specific units

As for the power locks, when I push the driverside lock manually up or down, I hear a click now, but no auto engagement of the passenger side. I'll start a different thread for that one if I cant get it figured out

Thanks Satch and Ben for all the assistance

Tournapart

iTrader: (4)

I also should have noted that I do not have any blown fuses, I believe the defroster is working properly in my vert, so I do not know if the PL's have any inline fuses from the locks themselves to the power source