Power band, What is yours (high HP NA Only)
10-17-07, 05:29 PM
#76
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17x8, 30mm offset, 5x114.3, 70.1mm centerbore. They came on the "SN95" mustangs, that's 94-04 I think, something like that anyway. These ones in particular are from the Mustang GT later in the production and are about 20lbs.
10-17-07, 06:11 PM
#77
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My NA, which is a GTUs has great response and pull for stock ports, I can actually navigate uphills in 5th gear while accelerating without having to downshift (65-70 mph+ though)
What I would consider a basic upgrade list if you have an NA, (though especially potent for a GTUs)
Cone filter with heat shielding and tunnel for cold air
Full Exhaust (Collected or Road Race True Dual)
Rtek7 2.0
Keep the 5th/6th ports closed for as long as possible with the Rtek7
Make sure the VDI works
I currently run a stock airbox with a K&N drop-in, since I don't feel like cutting into my body to make a tunnel for cold air to enter. I also run RB's collected full exhaust system (headers, pre-silencer, catback), though I think the road race would give me even more low end pull at the expense of the high-end power. That's pretty much it, before you get into porting. I made three dyno pulls with the Rtek7, opening up the 5th/6th ports as early as possible, as late as possible and somewhere in the middle. My dyno pulls resulted in the late as possible setting resulted in the best low end repsonse. Timing is also a crucial part, as it lets you shift your powerband lower, a welcome aid for the rotary engine. I have about a 31 degree advance on my car, running 87 octane without any problems. At idle I'm still at 5 degrees ATDC, but I've seen my timing advance as high as 26-30 degrees BTDC. EMS is a key tool when it comes to making the most of what you have. When I played around with VDI settings, it seemed to make the most power wherever I left it, so I left it somewhere in the middle, near stock settings.
Depending on the air temp, I make between 153 - 167 whp on stock ports, with great pull from the low end. The EMS was responsible for giving me 12 whp. (Baseline: 141 whp, after tune: 153 whp, Stock settings the night before: 155 whp). Though now, with the temps cooling off even more, I should be in the 170 range.
What I would consider a basic upgrade list if you have an NA, (though especially potent for a GTUs)
Cone filter with heat shielding and tunnel for cold air
Full Exhaust (Collected or Road Race True Dual)
Rtek7 2.0
Keep the 5th/6th ports closed for as long as possible with the Rtek7
Make sure the VDI works
I currently run a stock airbox with a K&N drop-in, since I don't feel like cutting into my body to make a tunnel for cold air to enter. I also run RB's collected full exhaust system (headers, pre-silencer, catback), though I think the road race would give me even more low end pull at the expense of the high-end power. That's pretty much it, before you get into porting. I made three dyno pulls with the Rtek7, opening up the 5th/6th ports as early as possible, as late as possible and somewhere in the middle. My dyno pulls resulted in the late as possible setting resulted in the best low end repsonse. Timing is also a crucial part, as it lets you shift your powerband lower, a welcome aid for the rotary engine. I have about a 31 degree advance on my car, running 87 octane without any problems. At idle I'm still at 5 degrees ATDC, but I've seen my timing advance as high as 26-30 degrees BTDC. EMS is a key tool when it comes to making the most of what you have. When I played around with VDI settings, it seemed to make the most power wherever I left it, so I left it somewhere in the middle, near stock settings.
Depending on the air temp, I make between 153 - 167 whp on stock ports, with great pull from the low end. The EMS was responsible for giving me 12 whp. (Baseline: 141 whp, after tune: 153 whp, Stock settings the night before: 155 whp). Though now, with the temps cooling off even more, I should be in the 170 range.
1. The Rtek looks awesome!
2. Do you set the timing with it? If not how?
3. Whats the VDI?
4. What is the EMS?
Thanks in advance for schooling me.
10-17-07, 07:02 PM
#78
1. the timing can be set with the Rtek7 via a menu in the RX7Logger program included with the Rtek7.
3. Variable Dynamic Intake: Basically variable intake runners, long before the switch point to promote better velocity, short after the switch point to promote better flow.
EMS - Engine Management System aka ECU, computer, etc....
Your car can either have the stock EMS/ECU, a reprogrammed one like the Rtek or a standalone like the Haltech/Microtech/MoTeC/AEM EMS/Megasquirt/Wolf 3D/Power FC.
I was looking for the 15 x 7 , + 25 rims, I heard those come from a V6 Mustang?
Though the 17 x 8 rims are nice to know about....great offset for our cars.
3. Variable Dynamic Intake: Basically variable intake runners, long before the switch point to promote better velocity, short after the switch point to promote better flow.
EMS - Engine Management System aka ECU, computer, etc....
Your car can either have the stock EMS/ECU, a reprogrammed one like the Rtek or a standalone like the Haltech/Microtech/MoTeC/AEM EMS/Megasquirt/Wolf 3D/Power FC.
Though the 17 x 8 rims are nice to know about....great offset for our cars.
10-17-07, 07:58 PM
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10-17-07, 08:40 PM
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Ok then, same generation, but on the base model V6's, there's also some 16x7.5's that I believe were an option on the V6's or something, I'm not sure on the offset or weight though. The hub bore should be the same, as is the bolt pattern, they're a 15x7 with a 24mm offset and I've heard them quoted at about 16lbs.
10-18-07, 06:33 AM
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the S5 manifold is not a variable length intake manifold.The length always stays the same, the VDI port is only to change the timing of the reversion wave that happens when the high velocity intake charge hits the side of the opposing rotor and bounces backwards up the intake manifold and through the VDI and into the open intake port of the other rotor.
S4 intakes use the reversion wave as well but with less effect since the wave has to travel all the way up to the Dynamic Chamber (which the TB bolts to) and back down to the rotor with the open port.
You can tune the VDI and AUX by going to a dyno, doing a run with both of them shut, then doing a run with the AUX wired open, find out with the torque curves cross and make sure the port opens just before. Do the same with the AUX and VDI wired open to find out where the torque curves cross higher up and open the VDI then.
S4 intakes use the reversion wave as well but with less effect since the wave has to travel all the way up to the Dynamic Chamber (which the TB bolts to) and back down to the rotor with the open port.
You can tune the VDI and AUX by going to a dyno, doing a run with both of them shut, then doing a run with the AUX wired open, find out with the torque curves cross and make sure the port opens just before. Do the same with the AUX and VDI wired open to find out where the torque curves cross higher up and open the VDI then.
10-18-07, 06:54 AM
#84
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Both manifolds use what Mazda called "dynamic effect", but the S5's has two communication lengths instead of just one. So S4 has DEI (Dynamic Effect Intake) and S5 has VDI (Variable Dynamic Effect).
10-18-07, 09:37 AM
#86
the S5 manifold is not a variable length intake manifold.The length always stays the same, the VDI port is only to change the timing of the reversion wave that happens when the high velocity intake charge hits the side of the opposing rotor and bounces backwards up the intake manifold and through the VDI and into the open intake port of the other rotor.
S4 intakes use the reversion wave as well but with less effect since the wave has to travel all the way up to the Dynamic Chamber (which the TB bolts to) and back down to the rotor with the open port.
You can tune the VDI and AUX by going to a dyno, doing a run with both of them shut, then doing a run with the AUX wired open, find out with the torque curves cross and make sure the port opens just before. Do the same with the AUX and VDI wired open to find out where the torque curves cross higher up and open the VDI then.
S4 intakes use the reversion wave as well but with less effect since the wave has to travel all the way up to the Dynamic Chamber (which the TB bolts to) and back down to the rotor with the open port.
You can tune the VDI and AUX by going to a dyno, doing a run with both of them shut, then doing a run with the AUX wired open, find out with the torque curves cross and make sure the port opens just before. Do the same with the AUX and VDI wired open to find out where the torque curves cross higher up and open the VDI then.
10-18-07, 09:48 AM
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The S5 manifold does the same thing, i.e. the wave travels all the way up to the Dynamic Chamber and back down. That's the long path used at low rpm. The VDI valve opens up to provide a shorter path at high rpm.
Both manifolds use what Mazda called "dynamic effect", but the S5's has two communication lengths instead of just one. So S4 has DEI (Dynamic Effect Intake) and S5 has VDI (Variable Dynamic Effect).
Both manifolds use what Mazda called "dynamic effect", but the S5's has two communication lengths instead of just one. So S4 has DEI (Dynamic Effect Intake) and S5 has VDI (Variable Dynamic Effect).
10-18-07, 09:51 AM
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I can verify - a linear vane AFM you can test to make sure it's working with a multimeter, because it uses variable resistance to vary the voltage output depending on vane position. The Rx7 vane AFM has several sections where the resistance is the same at wildly different vane positions, so its output is non-linear, like a sine wave, sawtooth wave, or square wave (and I think it's square wave, iirc), and you would have to check it with an oscilloscope to make sure it's working correctly.
I only know because the 1.6L Mazda engine in the Capri uses a compatible design, and there was some doubt as to whether or not it was working correctly. The RX7 AFM is an upgrade for the 1.6L 4 cylinder AFM's.
I only know because the 1.6L Mazda engine in the Capri uses a compatible design, and there was some doubt as to whether or not it was working correctly. The RX7 AFM is an upgrade for the 1.6L 4 cylinder AFM's.
10-18-07, 09:54 AM
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Monitoring the AFM input on your SAFC would be silly, because that's what you're modifying to get the fuel input you want. Are you sure you're not talking about throttle position, because the SAFC in the default configuration measures TPS input as a percent (which IS linear), correction as a percent, battery voltage, and I think one other parameter, but not AFM. The SAFC in default configuration adjusts the output of your AFM into your ECU (the wire you cut) by monitoring the position of the TPS (the wire you tap).
10-18-07, 09:54 AM
#91
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I can verify - a linear vane AFM you can test to make sure it's working with a multimeter, because it uses variable resistance to vary the voltage output depending on vane position. The Rx7 vane AFM has several sections where the resistance is the same at wildly different vane positions, so its output is non-linear, like a sine wave, sawtooth wave, or square wave (and I think it's square wave, iirc), and you would have to check it with an oscilloscope to make sure it's working correctly.
Last edited by RotaMan99; 10-18-07 at 10:04 AM.
10-18-07, 09:55 AM
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Monitoring the AFM input on your SAFC would be silly, because that's what you're modifying to get the fuel input you want
Are you sure you're not talking about throttle position
The SAFC in default configuration adjusts the output of your AFM into your ECU (the wire you cut) by monitoring the position of the TPS (the wire you tap).
Last edited by RotaMan99; 10-18-07 at 10:03 AM.
10-18-07, 09:56 AM
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If you're measuring voltage of a sawtooth wave with a DC voltmeter, then you can only measure the nominal DC component, since it'll be pulsating DC or possibly AC. So what you'll end up with is more like the RMS voltage, not the true peak voltage.
10-18-07, 09:58 AM
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It's been a while since my car ran, but I don't remember it outputting the AFM position to the screen of the SAFC, just throttle position (as a percent) correction (as a percent), battery voltage, and RPMs were the other one. I'm probably wrong though, like I said it's been a while.
10-18-07, 10:05 AM
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That's true - but I say it would be silly because as the driver it's irrelevant information to know what it used to be, since the SAFC just scales the output by what you tell it. (incoming signal * -1.20 to +1.20 = outgoing signal). It's something the SAFC would need to know, but not something that helps you as a driver/tuner. Telling you current throttle position and percent of correction assists you in tuning it, for example if you have an s4 and suddenly discover that your TPS reads 100% at quarter throttle, like I did, so you need to tune your SAFC accordingly (lo throttle 99%, hi throttle 100% or whatever). Knowing the incoming variable would be useless data. Sure maybe your AFM is at 3 volts, but what does that mean to you as a driver. Secondarily, are you sure that the pulsating voltage from the AFM isn't converted to a linear voltage by some other circuit somewhere? I just reran the entire harness wire for wire, but I didn't pay attention to whether the AFM wire that gets cut for the SAFC is the same exact wire that comes from the AFM, because a good number of wires going through the ECU pass data from one section of the ECU to the other, or from one computer to another inside the car.
10-18-07, 10:05 AM
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It's been a while since my car ran, but I don't remember it outputting the AFM position to the screen of the SAFC, just throttle position (as a percent) correction (as a percent), battery voltage, and RPMs were the other one. I'm probably wrong though, like I said it's been a while.
but I say it would be silly because as the driver it's irrelevant information to know what it used to be
Sure maybe your AFM is at 3 volts, but what does that mean to you as a driver. Secondarily, are you sure that the pulsating voltage from the AFM isn't converted to a linear voltage by some other circuit somewhere?
10-18-07, 10:12 AM
#97
damn i didn't realize they had an Rtek 2.0 for s5 na's now. AND it has a user switchable output!! They should put that on the turbo rtek model to switch something like a fan, intercooler sprayer, etc.
i wonder what I could have pulled off on my old NA if it were in fact an S5. Probably power in the 180s if I had one of those rtek's. Oh well.
i wonder what I could have pulled off on my old NA if it were in fact an S5. Probably power in the 180s if I had one of those rtek's. Oh well.
10-18-07, 11:13 AM
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but I didn't pay attention to whether the AFM wire that gets cut for the SAFC is the same exact wire that comes from the AFM
because a good number of wires going through the ECU pass data from one section of the ECU to the other, or from one computer to another inside the car.
for example if you have an s4 and suddenly discover that your TPS reads 100% at quarter throttle, like I did, so you need to tune your SAFC accordingly (lo throttle 99%, hi throttle 100% or whatever).
Last edited by RotaMan99; 10-18-07 at 11:22 AM.
10-18-07, 08:32 PM
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Since this has gotten so far off of topic, Has anyone downloaded the new Radiohead album? Its free at their website. Seriously, its fantastic.
Screw AFM and MAF and NCAA and listen to Radiohead. It will all make sense, or cents.
Screw AFM and MAF and NCAA and listen to Radiohead. It will all make sense, or cents.
10-19-07, 06:42 AM
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If you're measuring voltage of a sawtooth wave with a DC voltmeter, then you can only measure the nominal DC component, since it'll be pulsating DC or possibly AC. So what you'll end up with is more like the RMS voltage, not the true peak voltage.
So are you saying that AFM runs on a frequency? Has cylces per second?. The only way the voltage could "pulsate" is if the flapper was moving rapidly. Yes there are points that have the same resistance which throws me off but in order for the AFM voltage to pulsate, the flapper, which is directly connected to the variable resistor inside, would have to pulsate through the entire range of travel vary rapidly. This is by far not the case at all.