flamin-roids

Well the next upgrade will be either a haltech (E6K or X?) or a greddy emanage. Now will I be fine with a piggy back if I just want to beef up the fuel and igniton? Also what would a standalone system have over just a piggy back? Plus I plan on keeping the stock N/A injectors and adding a TII fuel pump. I might street port the motor if the increase will be worth it. So stand alone or piggy back?

YearsOfDecay

Depends dude.......

If you have emissions where you are, a stand alone may not be for you because you'll have a hard time controlling the emissions BS with it......

HOWEVER.... If you don't have to worry about emissions.... go with a stand alone...

You can get an E6K cheap, and they are proven for rx-7's, and there are a lot of us who know how to tweak 'em and we're learning more everyday.....

You'll get more out of a stand alone, but a piggy back is a lot less complicated to install....

I'd got with the haltech myself... OR if you got the bucks... the Autronic is the SHIZNIT.. and they have the autotune program for it where YOU tell the CAR what A/F's to run... hook the wideband to the ecu and.... Blammo... it sets itself....

flamin-roids

See I could see investing $350+ accessories into a N/A motor. $1000+ accessories will put a TII motor in. I just want to tweak it a little bit.

Parastie

The stand alone will give you full control of the car, while a piggy-back can only make (relatively) small adjustments to the stock system. For anything up to and including 250HP the piggy back should be okay, but if you're going beyond that a stand alone will be better.

Some here have fun much higher HP with just piggy-backs and it's entirely possible, but I think you'll lose some of the customization.

If you're just wanting to "Tweak it a little bit" then just get a piggy back, they're generally cheaper and easier to install, and you can tweak it well enough for most applications.

flamin-roids

I plan on keeping the stock fuel system. And chances are I'm not going to be making more than 200hp. I've heard the stock N/A fuel system is good for 250hp. And maybe with a nice streetport and a piggy back I'll try and pull off 220hp.

Parastie

I'm planning on pushing to 250hp at the wheels with stock ECU, SAFC-II and some larger secondaries...plus other mods but one thing at a time.

casio

you have to add onto the e-manage in order to tweak more with it (ie ignition).
e-manage: $315; Ignition Timing Harness: $45; Support Tool Software: $135. that's about $495 (rx7store.net). plus a laptop. oh, and the e-manage only has 5 preset rpm fuel points. not sure about upgrading that.

later on you say "220hp." assuming you mean wheel horsepower, since none of us measure flywheel horsepower (okay, practically no one), then yes, you'll need quite some port. you may also want to look into a custom intake manifold and definately buy a standalone.

flamin-roids

Software is already covered (have a friend who already has it). I was told you could use the stock harness in the S5's. And I've got a laptop. So I would just need the e-manage and maybe a few minor things. Shouldn't run me more than $400. Thats much better than $1k+ just for a E6X. And I meant 220hp at the flywheel. I figure intake, exhaust, piggyback, and a street port will be good for 60hp right?

casio

ehhh... i dont know what your (or others') drivetrain loss is, so its hard to say. at 15% loss, that'd put you at 187whp; not a common number for basic upgrades. more common numbers have been in the 170s whp. flywheel hp is irrelevant to me since we don't measure at the flywheel.
me, i'd look for a used E6K. i plan to eventually. i'm not sure how far i'll go with my car before i move, though.
i don't have any fancy intake (ghetto cone filter i need to replace), but i have a header-back exhaust, an un-tuned safc and a small port with no 6 port actuators; doesn't seem too fast. i'd like a wideband so i could get my air/fuels closer to stoich. i really wish i had a standalone and maybe a custom intake manifold. i'm curious to see what i could get out of this car. it's pretty discouraging knowing it just won't be that fast.

jacobcartmill

iTrader: (6)

if its NA, piggyback

if its TII, standalone.


no questions asked.

flamin-roids

So lets say I run my stock 460cc injectors at 80% cycle. Upgrade the fuel pump and get a FPR. And if a half bridge or a street port will make enough improvement to justify ripping the motor apart I'll do that. My motor is healthy and I've got intake and straight exhaust with a really light flywheel.

Bukwild

you won't be running a half bridge on stock 460cc injectors for very long. If I were you I would get some sort of fuel computer and spend my money in rear end gearing. If you want to stay NA and race around you won't be doing a hole lot with 170hp. Change your gears over to 490 or 510 and you will have the tire burning accelaration you are dreaming of. Top speed will now be 110-115 but how often are you above that speed. Last I knew tri-point engineering still cuts gears for bolt in.

casio

i lost the link, but there was an F-body site (and probably plenty others) that had a chart where you could actually type in your gear ratios, rpm and tire diameter to see your actual speeds (not some inaccurate numbers someone spit out). they also failed to mention that, since your car is only a 5spd, cruising at 65-70mph will result in constant high rpm. also, your shifts will come sooner. extremely low gears aren't the answer for a street driven sports car in my opinion. i'll leave those to 18 wheelers and rock climbing jeeps.

flamin-roids

Well my car has 3.90's right now. Sucks royally. But I want to get at least 4.10's. I might stick to the stock ports. My motor is still really strong. I don't think a fuel controller along with straight 2.5" exhaust and intake will only give me a 10hp gain. Maybe 170 rwhp. THat would be nice.

casio

no questions asked? hrmm. i can't agree with that at all. if you have an n/a and you're doing some major upgrades, a standalone may not only be the wise choice while giving a great performance improvement, it may be downright necessary.

casio

i think the change between 3.9 and 4.10 is minimal. i know people have commented between the 3.9s, 4.10s and 4.33s. i don't think its the 3.9 that sucks royally, i think its the slow, underpowered n/a.
i really don't know what horsepower you'd be at, but i'm going with comparisons against average dyno numbers i've read other people post on slightly ported engines. most were in the 170s. i would like to think that a small port would add more than 1-9whp. also, look at rarestRX's numbers. i think he got his up to 159whp on stock ports tuning the s-afc on the dyno. i wouldn't hold my breath for 170whp.

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

On the contrary!

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

Why is that?

A standalone will yield MORE power on a NA, than a piggyback!

casio

did you control all your little bs with it? i think thats what he was referring to, not just passing. bdc passed with flying colors on a 440whp (there-abouts) streetported turbo motor running an electric air-pump with his haltech, but thats just the air-pump. apparently not everything is needed, but thats what yearsofdecay was referring to.

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

I removed all of my emissions crap, running a street port engine, full 3 inch exhaust, high flow cat, and stock air pump; passed emissions on VA ONCE I tuned it right

Passing is all that matters, AND you will MAKE more HP than a piggy back.

casio

yea, and i agree with that, but he said all the emissions stuff. i don't see the need since it can pass without it, but that was his statement. i passed with an improperly running rebuilt engine and a highly leaned out safc. wish i could figure out why my car likes running rich.

flamin-roids

Not worried about emissions. And every little bit helps. I want a TII rear end so when my N/A motor goes to **** (which isn't going to be anytime soon) I can drop a 20B in and have a drivetrain to back it up and whatever mods I had for my N/A can go on to the 20B.

Evil Aviator

In that case you need to get a standalone. I would suggest a universal standalone that does not need to be sent back to the factory for reconfiguration for a 3-rotor engine. Also, if you want to run split timing on the 20B, you will need to use a higher-end EMS from a given manufacturer.

Also, as others have stated, a standalone really helps a NA engine. Be sure to put aside $500-2,000 for tuning costs.

flamin-roids

See those kinds of costs would mean I'm better off doing a turbo swap. So if I can get away with $400 for a standalone and tuning crap I'll do that. But if the costs get that high I might as well do a turbo swap.

Evil Aviator

Go turbo swap then.

Edit: And forget about the 20B, lol.