pics - BLUE TII's AWESOME engine setup - hFMIC
01-04-03, 04:59 PM
#27
I'm pretty sure I took pics of radiator mounting and posted on this forum, let me SEARCH.
The bottom of the radiator mounts off the stock oil cooler locations, the top mounts off arms attached to the stock AC core location. The stainless lower duct/divider lays ontop of the upper radiator support arms. VERY simple/clean.
I put it all together so it could be easily duplicated/produced in case it works out well. Remember my set-up is 100% bolt on- no cutting! And I have been itching to work on other peoples cars. You get the picture?
The bottom of the radiator mounts off the stock oil cooler locations, the top mounts off arms attached to the stock AC core location. The stainless lower duct/divider lays ontop of the upper radiator support arms. VERY simple/clean.
I put it all together so it could be easily duplicated/produced in case it works out well. Remember my set-up is 100% bolt on- no cutting! And I have been itching to work on other peoples cars. You get the picture?
01-04-03, 05:11 PM
#28
OK, found the thread w/ pics.
http://www.rx7club.com/forum/attachm...postid=1138048
shows the upper radiator arms/ radiator location
http://www.rx7club.com/forum/attachm...postid=1138050
http://www.rx7club.com/forum/attachm...postid=1138051
http://www.rx7club.com/forum/attachm...postid=1138057
http://www.rx7club.com/forum/attachm...postid=1138062
http://www.rx7club.com/forum/attachm...postid=1138069
http://www.rx7club.com/forum/attachm...postid=1138048
shows the upper radiator arms/ radiator location
http://www.rx7club.com/forum/attachm...postid=1138050
http://www.rx7club.com/forum/attachm...postid=1138051
http://www.rx7club.com/forum/attachm...postid=1138057
http://www.rx7club.com/forum/attachm...postid=1138062
http://www.rx7club.com/forum/attachm...postid=1138069
01-04-03, 07:10 PM
#32
I put together a list of my intake/exhaust set-up for a request by someone on the "other" forum. I'll share w/ you guys too.
My intake tubing is-
air filter to 3" polished/flared/knife edged ID mandrel bent 30 degrees to 3" to 2 3/4" sil. reducer to compressor inlet
compressor scroll casting is cleaned up, outlet is polished ID that is taper bored/knife edged to its outside diameter of 2 1/4" to sil. coupling to
2 1/4" ID knife edged polished ID 90 deg mandrel bent tube to
2 1/4" to 2 1/2" sil. coupling to 2 1/2" IC inlet to
ported and polished ID IC end tanks to
2 3/4" IC outlet to 2 3/4" 15 deg bend sil. coupling to
2 3/4" flared/knife edged/polished ID tube to 2 3/4" coupling to
2 3/4" ported/polished/knife edged/modified Greddy elbow w/ tube to flange angle reduced to 75 deg portmached to
polished relieved TB face w/ knife edged back side port mached to
3rd gen UIM w/ 2ndary throttle plates removed/ bridge removed/ polsihed ID w/ hogged primary runners and relieved primary port angle portmached to
89+ TII LIM w/ ACV intrusion cut out, welded smooth, fully polished ID w/ hogged primaries and slightly larger 2ndary runners roughed below inj. w/ 80 grit radial grooves, ported mounting hole boss that intrudes into primary runners port matched to
Pineapple stage II streetport (about 2-3mm larger port entrance than stock)
Exhaust is
89+ manifold ported and polished ID port matched to
89+ turbo housing ported/ polished runners up to scroll to
bored exhaust (to fit t04 wheel w/ "O" trim) polished turbine exit to
JIC magic Spec 90 3 1/2" turbo back!
My intake tubing is-
air filter to 3" polished/flared/knife edged ID mandrel bent 30 degrees to 3" to 2 3/4" sil. reducer to compressor inlet
compressor scroll casting is cleaned up, outlet is polished ID that is taper bored/knife edged to its outside diameter of 2 1/4" to sil. coupling to
2 1/4" ID knife edged polished ID 90 deg mandrel bent tube to
2 1/4" to 2 1/2" sil. coupling to 2 1/2" IC inlet to
ported and polished ID IC end tanks to
2 3/4" IC outlet to 2 3/4" 15 deg bend sil. coupling to
2 3/4" flared/knife edged/polished ID tube to 2 3/4" coupling to
2 3/4" ported/polished/knife edged/modified Greddy elbow w/ tube to flange angle reduced to 75 deg portmached to
polished relieved TB face w/ knife edged back side port mached to
3rd gen UIM w/ 2ndary throttle plates removed/ bridge removed/ polsihed ID w/ hogged primary runners and relieved primary port angle portmached to
89+ TII LIM w/ ACV intrusion cut out, welded smooth, fully polished ID w/ hogged primaries and slightly larger 2ndary runners roughed below inj. w/ 80 grit radial grooves, ported mounting hole boss that intrudes into primary runners port matched to
Pineapple stage II streetport (about 2-3mm larger port entrance than stock)
Exhaust is
89+ manifold ported and polished ID port matched to
89+ turbo housing ported/ polished runners up to scroll to
bored exhaust (to fit t04 wheel w/ "O" trim) polished turbine exit to
JIC magic Spec 90 3 1/2" turbo back!
01-15-03, 11:10 PM
#35
this is funny..... it's now the 15th of january and i'm in the middle of doing the same set-up. i've been pondering this setup for a while now. got the whole top end tore down. waiting on new s5 turbo to port out and all gaskets to start fitment of npr/ radiator.. well you beat me !!! I'll put up my picks when i get there. it's ganna be a while though... i do believe that this setup can be more efficient.. the only diff is i might make the 2 into more of a V-shape. I do like the idea of seperation of air, for more control.. I was planning on incorparating a cold air on the side of the V setup.. well that all now good luck and love your 777.........
astro_child7
astro_child7
01-16-03, 02:31 AM
#37
berrraaap
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wow did you get a repaint on that car to it is soo clean i am to trying some thing like that it is hush hush for now 
but man i don't know if i have ever sen such a clean second gen period
but man i don't know if i have ever sen such a clean second gen period
01-16-03, 04:04 AM
#38
Astrochild7-
Yep, getting the IC at an angle back like a V-mount would make the set-up even more efficient. It just wasn't going to happen w/ the size IC, Rad. etc I chose and the way I wanted very direct IC piping. Check out the Yellow Panspeed FC (or even their FDs) for a very nice horizontal/v-mount? set up. Just the convoluted IC piping and smaller radiator bother me.
Chance-
I consider your sentiments a very nice compliment!
RXracer77-
The engine bay paint is stock- complete w/ some minor scratches here and there. I think the way it is simplified and wire harnesses are hidden really cleans up the look. I will probably get the car repainted on the outside (stock blue) this summer as I am now aquainted w/ a good paint and body guy!
Ian
Yep, getting the IC at an angle back like a V-mount would make the set-up even more efficient. It just wasn't going to happen w/ the size IC, Rad. etc I chose and the way I wanted very direct IC piping. Check out the Yellow Panspeed FC (or even their FDs) for a very nice horizontal/v-mount? set up. Just the convoluted IC piping and smaller radiator bother me.
Chance-
I consider your sentiments a very nice compliment!
RXracer77-
The engine bay paint is stock- complete w/ some minor scratches here and there. I think the way it is simplified and wire harnesses are hidden really cleans up the look. I will probably get the car repainted on the outside (stock blue) this summer as I am now aquainted w/ a good paint and body guy!
Ian
01-16-03, 01:44 PM
#39
Lives on the Forum
My comments...
A horizontal IC is very hard to pull off efficiently.  Basically, it's very hard to beat the cooling efficiency of a true front-mount.
I haven't spent too much time staring at the pics, but if the air flows through the rad and then through the IC core (then exiting the vented hood), that's not a good idea.  I did see the small passage through the black, fiberglass reinforcement, but it's a tad too small for your IC core dimesions?  Corky Bell recommends 1/4 air duct cross section versus IC core cross section...
-Ted
A horizontal IC is very hard to pull off efficiently.  Basically, it's very hard to beat the cooling efficiency of a true front-mount.
I haven't spent too much time staring at the pics, but if the air flows through the rad and then through the IC core (then exiting the vented hood), that's not a good idea.  I did see the small passage through the black, fiberglass reinforcement, but it's a tad too small for your IC core dimesions?  Corky Bell recommends 1/4 air duct cross section versus IC core cross section...
-Ted
01-16-03, 02:54 PM
#42
Originally posted by RETed
My comments...
A horizontal IC is very hard to pull off efficiently.  Basically, it's very hard to beat the cooling efficiency of a true front-mount.
I haven't spent too much time staring at the pics, but if the air flows through the rad and then through the IC core (then exiting the vented hood), that's not a good idea.  I did see the small passage through the black, fiberglass reinforcement, but it's a tad too small for your IC core dimesions?  Corky Bell recommends 1/4 air duct cross section versus IC core cross section...
-Ted
My comments...
A horizontal IC is very hard to pull off efficiently.  Basically, it's very hard to beat the cooling efficiency of a true front-mount.
I haven't spent too much time staring at the pics, but if the air flows through the rad and then through the IC core (then exiting the vented hood), that's not a good idea.  I did see the small passage through the black, fiberglass reinforcement, but it's a tad too small for your IC core dimesions?  Corky Bell recommends 1/4 air duct cross section versus IC core cross section...
-Ted
thats not how it works. the top of the radiator is tilted way back (check out the pics) and the IC is sitting in that open space there the radiator was before. so the air goes in both at about the same time. then the air exits under the hood if i understand correctly. regardless, the air has unrestricted access to both the radiator and the IC at the same time because its like a V turned sideways, big part of the V facing the front of the car.
01-16-03, 03:57 PM
#44
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Originally posted by jacobcartmill
thats not how it works. the top of the radiator is tilted way back (check out the pics) and the IC is sitting in that open space there the radiator was before. so the air goes in both at about the same time. then the air exits under the hood if i understand correctly. regardless, the air has unrestricted access to both the radiator and the IC at the same time because its like a V turned sideways, big part of the V facing the front of the car.
thats not how it works. the top of the radiator is tilted way back (check out the pics) and the IC is sitting in that open space there the radiator was before. so the air goes in both at about the same time. then the air exits under the hood if i understand correctly. regardless, the air has unrestricted access to both the radiator and the IC at the same time because its like a V turned sideways, big part of the V facing the front of the car.
I also would like to point out to ReTed that he is only trying for 300 rwhp, so he may not need ALL of the cooling capacity of that core. So the hole he has now might be sufficient for that power level. I really have nothing to back this up; just guessing.
01-16-03, 06:10 PM
#45
Huh?
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I got a question.
The "CA" in your location. Does that mean California or Canada? Cause I am very curious how you are going to pass emmissions with this set up in california. It seems like a lot of sutff you would have to switch back when you gotta get it tested?
Also, what type of coating did you put on your UIM?
The "CA" in your location. Does that mean California or Canada? Cause I am very curious how you are going to pass emmissions with this set up in california. It seems like a lot of sutff you would have to switch back when you gotta get it tested?
Also, what type of coating did you put on your UIM?
01-16-03, 08:27 PM
#46
Lives on the Forum
Originally posted by jacobcartmill
thats not how it works. the top of the radiator is tilted way back (check out the pics) and the IC is sitting in that open space there the radiator was before. so the air goes in both at about the same time. then the air exits under the hood if i understand correctly. regardless, the air has unrestricted access to both the radiator and the IC at the same time because its like a V turned sideways, big part of the V facing the front of the car.
thats not how it works. the top of the radiator is tilted way back (check out the pics) and the IC is sitting in that open space there the radiator was before. so the air goes in both at about the same time. then the air exits under the hood if i understand correctly. regardless, the air has unrestricted access to both the radiator and the IC at the same time because its like a V turned sideways, big part of the V facing the front of the car.
The IC is still at the mercy of the vacuum suction out of the hood vent.  This is not kindergarten math - it's serious fluid dynamics.  You can't expect everything to just work just because you cut a hole in the hood.  I'd still prefer my IC's up front.
I know this is stepping on a few toes, but I was trying to play a little devil's advocate here.  I'm not bashing on the workmanship - I agree, it's gorgeous.  All I'm questioning is it's efficiency.
Samps mention a 300hp cap, so that would be easily within it's parameters.
-Ted
01-16-03, 08:42 PM
#47
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simply beautiful as I mentioned before...i don't think BlueTII was out for engineering prowess, just a setup thats a little different. we all know the Jap circuit cars run similar setups on FD's but with the proper ducting etc... Even w/ inferior cooling compared to a FMIC, this is overkill for 300hp and gets "ooohs" and "ahhhhs" when the hood is raised. can't say enough about this setup, one of a kind & gorgeous craftsmanship!! *drool*
01-16-03, 09:33 PM
#48
Quote from RETed-
A horizontal IC is very hard to pull off efficiently. Basically, it's very hard to beat the cooling efficiency of a true front-mount.
I haven't spent too much time staring at the pics, but if the air flows through the rad and then through the IC core (then exiting the vented hood), that's not a good idea. I did see the small passage through the black, fiberglass reinforcement, but it's a tad too small for your IC core dimesions? Corky Bell recommends 1/4 air duct cross section versus IC core cross section...
Your comments are welcome Ted, please do not feel like you are "stepping on toes" with your critique of the set-up.
I agree it is VERY hard to beat the INTAKE AIR cooling of a true front mount. The horizontal mount and V-mount set-ups are a compromise to cool both air intake and radiator/oil cooler temps. For drag, auto-x and "track attack" sessions where only the single fastest time counts the FMIC is the best IC design in my opinion.
FMIC is not good for continued lapping of a circuit as they tend to overheat engines.
My set-up is a Horizontal Mount IC and is different from a V-mount because the IC and oil cooler/radiator ducts are fully divided. Air entering the stock location can only go through the oil cooler and rad. Air entering the slot in the bumper I cut can only go through the IC and out the hood vent. The divider is fully sealed and stainless steel due to its excellent heat rejection characteristics.
The IC intake slot is 38.26 in sq in its smallest spot and the IC core is 165.75 in sq- Very close to Corky Bells 1/4 figure! Not to mention the Horizontal mount has a much better differential in pressures between the IC intake and exhaust as compared to FMIC. The H-mount has a high pressure at the intake and true low pressure at the exhaust whereas an FMIC has a high pressure at the intake and a "lower" high pressure at the exhaust- as the FMIC air exhaust still has to flow through the oil cooler and radiator and then out the trans tunnel! The FMIC air exhaust pressure can be lowered by venting it out the hood as well, but FMIC air exhaust still has to flow through the oil cooler and rad.
Which does air flow through easier- a gently curving duct or a radiator core? This is like asking if air flows better through a velocity stack or a cone filter! It is obvious the H-mount IC ducting has less restriction than a radiator AND a better intake/exhaust pressure differential.
This is my reasoning for the set-up anyways. Ian
A horizontal IC is very hard to pull off efficiently. Basically, it's very hard to beat the cooling efficiency of a true front-mount.
I haven't spent too much time staring at the pics, but if the air flows through the rad and then through the IC core (then exiting the vented hood), that's not a good idea. I did see the small passage through the black, fiberglass reinforcement, but it's a tad too small for your IC core dimesions? Corky Bell recommends 1/4 air duct cross section versus IC core cross section...
Your comments are welcome Ted, please do not feel like you are "stepping on toes" with your critique of the set-up.
I agree it is VERY hard to beat the INTAKE AIR cooling of a true front mount. The horizontal mount and V-mount set-ups are a compromise to cool both air intake and radiator/oil cooler temps. For drag, auto-x and "track attack" sessions where only the single fastest time counts the FMIC is the best IC design in my opinion.
FMIC is not good for continued lapping of a circuit as they tend to overheat engines.
My set-up is a Horizontal Mount IC and is different from a V-mount because the IC and oil cooler/radiator ducts are fully divided. Air entering the stock location can only go through the oil cooler and rad. Air entering the slot in the bumper I cut can only go through the IC and out the hood vent. The divider is fully sealed and stainless steel due to its excellent heat rejection characteristics.
The IC intake slot is 38.26 in sq in its smallest spot and the IC core is 165.75 in sq- Very close to Corky Bells 1/4 figure! Not to mention the Horizontal mount has a much better differential in pressures between the IC intake and exhaust as compared to FMIC. The H-mount has a high pressure at the intake and true low pressure at the exhaust whereas an FMIC has a high pressure at the intake and a "lower" high pressure at the exhaust- as the FMIC air exhaust still has to flow through the oil cooler and radiator and then out the trans tunnel! The FMIC air exhaust pressure can be lowered by venting it out the hood as well, but FMIC air exhaust still has to flow through the oil cooler and rad.
Which does air flow through easier- a gently curving duct or a radiator core? This is like asking if air flows better through a velocity stack or a cone filter! It is obvious the H-mount IC ducting has less restriction than a radiator AND a better intake/exhaust pressure differential.
This is my reasoning for the set-up anyways. Ian
01-16-03, 09:52 PM
#49
QUOTE-
Now about the hood...what kinda hood setup do you run on that car????
------
I am running a stock alum NA hood w/ a carbon fiber reverse scoop from www.carbontrix.com. The SCC Sentra just got one for their CF hood if you are familiar w/ that mag.
QUOTE-
regardless, the air has unrestricted access to both the radiator and the IC at the same time because its like a V turned sideways, big part of the V facing the front of the car.
------
No, that is actually V-mount theory and I don't like how that set-up works. If you want to vent the IC in a low pressure area w/ V-mount (hood) you suck air out before it can reach the radiator. I prefer my H-mount w/ full divided/insulated ducts. I can thus vent the IC w/ low pressure and lose no air to the radiator
QUOTE-
I think you might have misread Blue T2's description. He said that the extra hole ducted into the front is feeding the IC only and no other air s being routed to the IC.
I also would like to point out to ReTed that he is only trying for 300 rwhp,
------
YES and YES! Samps seems very familiar w/ my set-up. "only" 300 RWHP is my goal. Damn good for a stock based hybrid turbo- I think.
QUOTE-Ah, so it's the V style mount.
The IC is still at the mercy of the vacuum suction out of the hood vent. This is not kindergarten math - it's serious fluid dynamics. You can't expect everything to just work just because you cut a hole in the hood. I'd still prefer my IC's up front.
-------
NO, Horizontal Mount!
As for the fluid dynamics, I agree I don't know how well it all works out mathmatically. BUT, I do know this IC style has a very proven track record (as does FMIC) on the track in Japan. We do know it works and if you've seen Options Vid #92 you know it works VERY WELL for the Panspeen FC!
I like the front mount position very much as well Ted, that is why I moved my oil cooler(s) to the very front of the stock bumper opening. FMOC...
Ian
Now about the hood...what kinda hood setup do you run on that car????
------
I am running a stock alum NA hood w/ a carbon fiber reverse scoop from www.carbontrix.com. The SCC Sentra just got one for their CF hood if you are familiar w/ that mag.
QUOTE-
regardless, the air has unrestricted access to both the radiator and the IC at the same time because its like a V turned sideways, big part of the V facing the front of the car.
------
No, that is actually V-mount theory and I don't like how that set-up works. If you want to vent the IC in a low pressure area w/ V-mount (hood) you suck air out before it can reach the radiator. I prefer my H-mount w/ full divided/insulated ducts. I can thus vent the IC w/ low pressure and lose no air to the radiator
QUOTE-
I think you might have misread Blue T2's description. He said that the extra hole ducted into the front is feeding the IC only and no other air s being routed to the IC.
I also would like to point out to ReTed that he is only trying for 300 rwhp,
------
YES and YES! Samps seems very familiar w/ my set-up. "only" 300 RWHP is my goal. Damn good for a stock based hybrid turbo- I think.
QUOTE-Ah, so it's the V style mount.
The IC is still at the mercy of the vacuum suction out of the hood vent. This is not kindergarten math - it's serious fluid dynamics. You can't expect everything to just work just because you cut a hole in the hood. I'd still prefer my IC's up front.
-------
NO, Horizontal Mount!
As for the fluid dynamics, I agree I don't know how well it all works out mathmatically. BUT, I do know this IC style has a very proven track record (as does FMIC) on the track in Japan. We do know it works and if you've seen Options Vid #92 you know it works VERY WELL for the Panspeen FC!
I like the front mount position very much as well Ted, that is why I moved my oil cooler(s) to the very front of the stock bumper opening. FMOC...
Ian
01-16-03, 10:35 PM
#50
Ah, cruddies- I forgot to answer someone.
QUOTE-
The "CA" in your location. Does that mean California or Canada? Cause I am very curious how you are going to pass emmissions with this set up in california. It seems like a lot of sutff you would have to switch back when you gotta get it tested?
Also, what type of coating did you put on your UIM?
------
I am in Northern California. We have no emmissions testing where I live. Very nice! If we get emmssions tesing in my area before FCs are exempted by age; well, by then I will have all the stock stuff I took out of the car rebuilt- so I can put it in.
I used VHT "Flame Proof" 1500 deg coating and baked it as recommended in the directions. Flat silver for the manifolds and clear on the polished stuff.
QUOTE-
The "CA" in your location. Does that mean California or Canada? Cause I am very curious how you are going to pass emmissions with this set up in california. It seems like a lot of sutff you would have to switch back when you gotta get it tested?
Also, what type of coating did you put on your UIM?
------
I am in Northern California. We have no emmissions testing where I live. Very nice! If we get emmssions tesing in my area before FCs are exempted by age; well, by then I will have all the stock stuff I took out of the car rebuilt- so I can put it in.
I used VHT "Flame Proof" 1500 deg coating and baked it as recommended in the directions. Flat silver for the manifolds and clear on the polished stuff.