I'm down in the garage now and I can not for the life of me find the order in which to tighten and torque the bolts for the oil pan. I found the torque spec to be 7lb-ft, and around 55 for the engine mount bolts.. But what order shall I do them up in? I was thinking about using the mount bolts to hold the pan in place (doing this on a hoist sadly) and then piloting all the pan bolts and torquing them down in an order before torquing the mount bolts.

I'll be checking the fsm in the meantime.

Cheers everyone,
- Collin

 

there isn't an order, but its not a bad idea to criss cross

 

Cool, yeah I figured if nothing else I'd just use the tried and true cross tightening.

The fsm says to do the mount first then the oil pan bolts. So I guess I'll go with that.

 

No order, but in a Kriss Kross pattern.

I always skim coat both sides of the gasket with sealant, usually Permatix Grey. Spin everything down finger tight, which means going back and forth a few times because once you've done the last bolt, the first one will be lose.

Then two steps to say 5 lbs and then 10 lbs (7 is such an odd value).

I tend to just snug the mount down to locate the holes. Then torque once the sealant is dry.

 

I have a gasket that I bought ages ago, but in searching the forums I decided to take a chance on ultra black only.. There was a small whoopsie daisy, but the worst case scenario is that I have to re seal it once it's in the car and running. I torqued the mount down and then worked my way through torquing the pan bolts to five lbs and then seven. Sadly, between the cheap-O torque wrench and pure luck, one of the bolts stripped. Wooooo...

In other news, I'm getting slightly frustrated with my swap situation. I have almost everything and want to get it in the car, but lack of hardware and familiarity of the s4 turbo engine has me searching a lot more than I expected. Stupid things like Coolant and vac hose routing. My engine is a bit of a Frankencobble, ie re sleeved na housings, but I'm excited to get it cruising. Maybe I should start a thread to try and coax some clarity out of people? ;-)

Cheers,
- Collin

 

7 ft lbs is such a low setting for a torque wrench that if you dont have a good one you'll end up stripping the threads in the aluminum housings and front cover. Id recommend a beam style torque wrench for this job unless you have a nice Snap On digital 1/4 drive torque wrench handy. Don't go over 10 ft lbs in the aluminum or it will strip and oil will seep out of the new gasket. The cast iron can take the higher torque a bit easier. Use only a thin film of black or gray RTV on a fresh gasket.


BTW how have you been Collin? It's been awhile since I've seen you on here.

 

I like how you spelled Kris Kross

 

I've been decent nate, just plugging away at life I suppose. Had this engine a few months and the anticipation of swapping it in is absolutely killing me, all while consuming most of my free thinking time. Oh yeah, and my money haha

I think your old FC has finally left vermont. I'm I'll buy it back eventually, she was a solid car. My current fc will one day need a re body ;-)

 

What the gents above said is correct. Just an alternating pattern. I just use Toyota FIPG Black and torque the pan bolts to 88-106 in/lbs and the mounts to 45 ft/lbs.

Start by getting all of the bolts installed and finger tighten the mount bolts to locate the pan. Work from middle out and side to side. Use a good torque wrench and you will be fine. I generally use a cordless drill at work with the clutch turned way down to set the bolts down, then torque them all. I torque the mount last and recheck after about an hour.

 

I miss the ol girl sometimes. Maybe it was because I bought it over 10 years ago when I was alot younger, but that car seemed like the fastest one I've owned other than my SA. If I would have hung onto it a bit longer it needed real suspension and a real manual steering rack for sure.

A trip down memory lane...





The day she followed me home...

 

I've got a few of the car that you might like to see..on a hard drive somewhere. It was definitely quick for an NA, I miss it a lot. As I said, I'm sure I'll stumble upon it at the right time again some day.

 

i just start at the engine mount leg space and work my way around.

criss cross isn't a bad idea, but you'd think after a couple hundred that if it was a problem not doing it that i'd know by now, but i haven't seen any issue with the circular pattern so i stuck with it.

the deck is seamed, so i don't necessarily believe a criss cross pattern really helps anyways, perhaps if your pan is warped but i'd hope not..

 

I usually just torque the bolts that go into cast iron first then the bolts that go into aluminum.

 

For years I've replaced the pan bolts that thread into the front cover with studs as the front cover always seems to strip out at just the slightest amount of over torque. Rotor housings seem less prone as there are only 4 total bolts into the housings and they aren't blind holes.

 

At the same time, Banzai sells a whole oil pan brace kit with studs. Kills two birds.

 

an FC pan brace is a waste of money

 

I like to think of it as cheap insurance, but why do you think it's a waste?

The supposed benefits seem worthwhile.

 

FC pans don't leak unless you're lazy about cleaning or have an obviously warped and mangled oil pan.

the brace will not prevent the engine from breaking under high power either. in fact they do nothing in that respect.



for FDs they have a real benefit, because the engine mount through bolts always leak on those pans and the brace helps to torque the pan evenly and keep it cinched down through the movement of the mounts through expansion/contraction/engine movement. the FD engine oil level is also above the oil pan seam, so any imperfections show immediately.

so for anything but the FD, they're just wasted space.

i haven't once ever had to redo an FC oil pan, i have had one or two FDs that had leaks after engine work, considering i built about 50 times more FC engines the difference becomes that much more noticable.

 

I agree with you about the FD pans, absolutely. I have not had many FC pans, but every one that I have done never comes back leaking.

Waste of money for a brace? Maybe. Will I install one on my car? Probably.

 

your choice

 

Brace or no, studs sure seem like a good idea.

 

Studs *do* seem like a good idea. I wish they had just made them that way to begin with.

I've started my swap and am working on a write up/build thread. Maybe that will pop up :-)

 

If nothing else, they'd sure make installing a pan with the engine in situ a whole lot easier.

 

the older cars 70-71 used studs and it must make cleaning the engine flange a nightmare

 

Yes, the studs make installing the pan with the engine in the car a crap ton easier. Lines up the gasket and then the pan can just be angled back to the rear.

For cleaning the flange, just unscrew the studs. I get nice ones with allen sockets on the top. Or just grind a slot in for a flathead.

I always use a gasket and Ultra Grey (previously used the Ultra Copper but the Grey is better) and have been leak free.