patman

iTrader: (3)

what exaclty do you mean by 2/3? like 2/3 of your oil? or 2/3 of the way down the dipstick?

any time it is more than 1/2 a quart low, you should top it off. no, it doesnt matter if you mix oils.

homebrewer

So, if your oil is "clean" you are assuming it is better oil? I personally my oil to be dirty during a regular interval which tells me the detergents are doing their job by keeping gunk in suspension instead of allowing it to build up sludge.

One of the things ICEMARK says it that high ash oils are bad. Its kind of a catch 20/20. Many of the additives in oil such as detergents and anti-wear additives (ZDDP) also contribute to ash content. An elevated ash content can simply mean that the oil has a stronger additive package than one with a lower one. Simply saying that high ash is bad is not entirely accurate and oversimplying the point.

Castrol GTX 20w-50 is .85% ash content and Valvoline is about 1.5%

The whole ash argument and viscosity index argument is overrated in my opinion. I have yet to have a carbon problem by using 10w-40 and shortly I will switch to a greater viscosity spread oil for cooler driving.

Just so you know, I did dump some 20w50 oil in my 91 Vert two weeks ago and there was not much difference. It wasn't smoother, oil pressure was the same as 10w40 and my fuel economy for one tank (not statisically significant) was slightly lower with the higher viscosity oil. Even though the oil's taste, color, and smell are ok, I'm going to drain it and save the 20w-50 for my lawnmower.

Turbo II

iTrader: (1)

Don't hate me, I'm not trying to diss you or anyone else on here or create any more havoc than what is out here now. I just had to email an old friend last night about his thougths on my choice of oil used in my cars. What came back threw me for a loop. From all the posts and threads on here for the last 4 or 5 years I was thinking to myself, cool I'm covered with Castrol 10W30 in the 'vert and 20W50 in the turbo... Now a guy I've known all my life and trust as a friend tells me this about Castrol. Does any of what he ays make any sense or hold true for us rotorheads? Damn, all I want is what is best for my cars. I can tell you what 9 volt battery sounds best in a vintage effects pedal but damnit Jim, I'm a guitar player, not a mechanic. All this oil stuff has given me a headache!

Hey Man,
Tell ya what. Gimme a call at the shop for more details. But, suffice it to say what I've learned about differences in oil is worth sharing. There's no trick to this except to know a few basics.
There's two main crude bases; napthenic ( like they make asphalt out of, yuck! ) and parrafinic ( like what candles and wax for Your winter sled-runners are made from ). Obviously, there are inherent differences besides just the colors of asphalt versus a candle. Much more.
As far as Castrol, lemme tell ya this. Once upon a time it really was a high-grade parrafinic or mixed base oil. It is also the most highly advertised oil on the planet. Get the drift? Greg, I wouldn't put Castrol in My lawnmower these days. Years ago, yes... now, no.
And You are running this in a turbo engine? Huh-uh. Ever hear of 'coking' in the oil send/return lines? Are ya really interested in buying a new turbo down the road? Here's the skinny, and Castrol is not alone in this cost of production reduction process; napthenic base crude is cheap. Ya throw a few anti-oxidation elements, viscosity stabilizers and a plethora of other chemical wizardy into the soup so the oil can 'pass' all of the alphabet-soup requirements of an engine oil in the 21st century, and it becomes a saleable product. But! All of those 'additives' shear-off after only a short while ( way before the 3k oil service recommendation ). So after tooling around for about 1,000 miles or so, You are left with the base crud ( no mis-spelling ) that circulates through Your engine.
Now. Mid-continent grade parrafinic oils ( versus coastal oils that are usually highly napthenic ) already have so many goodies to offer. From the oilfileds of Texas, Arkansas, Lousiana, Oklahoma and even Ohio come these oils that already have naturally ocuring anti-oxidation and viscosity stability that the 'doctored' oils do not have. So, guess what? They wear longer, break down much more slowly and can truly offer Your engine that 3k oil-change protection. Why? Because they offer the low oxidation, low volatility, fewer deposits...and of all things, are more compatible with seal and hose materials because they offer better water separation and resistance to emulsification. And these are but a few reasons. But I'm sure ya get the drift, better is better, period *******-end.
Now, should You care to send this tome along to any of Your avid car-buddies, You are welcome to. And should they raise argument about this information , then they can go to Lubrication Engineer's website where there is copious proof of what I speak via the "Falex Wear Tests" and "TFOUT" results of testing many commercially available oils. And should the arguement about natural oils versus synthetics/blends arise, there's info on the plus and negative side for them as well. I for one have some reservations about an oil that is derived from acids & alcohols ( synths ) ever being capable of acting like a non-synthetic. Chemical engineering is a wonderful science, but I'll always put My money on Mother Nature. Her parrafinic oils have a naturally occuring 'sheer-strength' ( which means that the oil molocules are not just being sloshed around but actually have a molecular attraction towards one another thus providing a bond that serves as greater protection for internal engine components.)
In closing, here's a little story. I had a 1982 VW Rabbit. Bought it when it had about 45k on the clock. Always used Valvoline 15/40 oil. At about 150k it needed a head gasket. Took the head off and sent it to Cylinder Head Specialists up in Wake Forest. I know the head machinist and asked Him to just look over the head before I'd put it back on the engine. He pressure checked it, trued the base set and otherwise found no issues. When I went to pick-up the head, as I was paying the bill, He asked, " When did You put the new camshaft in?" My reply was that it was original, I'd not replaced it. " Well, it was dead-on-*****... within .0002 of specs...I thought it was new! " Oil makes a big difference. It's the blood. It should be the best available. Don't go putting something somebody else says is 'today's catch' in Your engine. There are proven oils that are at Your choice to use, don't... well it ain't My fault. I'm presently driving a 1980 VW Vanagon Westfalia owned since She was sold to Me at 69k miles, and I'm at 170k, using only the oils I trust. Though She's had a few minor issues over the years, none... none were engine oiling issues. She still pumps out about 140psi per cylinder, which should certainly say that My choice of oil has perhaps led "Ol Pinto" towards keeping Her heart pumping for some time to come, and Mine 'cause I love Her so.
Care about Your car? Keep it alive with the right oil. Then give Her a bath to make Her shine. 'Nuff said....
Village Motor Werks' Holistic Technician * wink*
Greg, just up the street...

RXSevenSymphonies

iTrader: (2)

<edited for flaming>

Icemark

ah, okay... It seems in your post, this guy is basing a lot on the Falex test and personal use (now long term personal use test reporting, I agree with; but as for the Falex test... well for motor oil it is a useless marketing test.

Just for everyone else’s info:

So let’s look at wear (Fail means that the oil lacked the sufficient film strength to allow the rotating pin to continue to move).

Pennzoil Synthetic blend Fail
Pennzoil pure base Pass, Teeth of wear: 12
Valvoline Durablend Syn blend Pass: teeth of wear: 10
Exxon Superflow 5W30 Fail
Quaker State Pass teeth of wear 22
Castrol GTX pass teeth of wear 26
Castrol Syntec Pass 11
Mobil 1 tri Synthetic pass teeth of wear 12

But now let’s look at a couple of other things:

Now in all honesty, more than one source suggests that the Falex wear test was designed to test for extreme pressure, such as in gear boxes.

So looking at those numbers Mobil 1 10W30 is a pretty damm good oil… in fact any oil that didn’t fail must be pretty damm good right???

It does have impressive numbers, but flat Coke will usually give the same type result--and I wouldn't recommend using Coca-Cola in the engine as a lubricant.

Flat Coke: Pass, Teeth of wear 15
Glidden house paint semi gloss (Evermore sub-Brand) Pass, Teeth of wear 44 (taken from the MSDS on the paint)

So what does that say??? That Glidden house paint is a better lubricant Pennzoil Synthetic??? Yeah…Okay. The Falex test tells me all about oil

homebrewer

I hereby ask that moderators BAN all oil threads. This is not an oil forum but a car forum. All future oil threads should be posted on another forum, www.bobistheoilguy.com where there are very many REAL experts on oil and where you can get an answer.

FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST, PLEASE POST ALL FUTURE OIL QUESTIONS IN THAT FORUM, NOT RX7CLUB.COM.

RXSevenSymphonies

iTrader: (2)

lol, aw come on Icemark you know it's true

Here I'll contribute: We should all just use whatever brand of oil we think is neat, then we should GET IT TESTED at whatever mileage/time intervals we want (like every 500 miles) and see when the oil is actually breaking down, then we can determine when we really need to change it (do it on more than just one oil change though, you know.. repeatable results... scientific stuff).

Here, read the Motor Oil Bible and see what you think of that.. skip to page 11 for the table of contents. Turbo II, send this to your Greg friend and see what he thinks.

http://home.comcast.net/~rxsevensymp...ob_4_21_04.pdf

Icemark

you are probably correct on that. I tend to oversimplfy here often. But on the same vein- I perfer lower additive packages- so I don't have to worry about break down of them.

So you went from a 40W oil to a 50W and expected a change in anything???

A much better test would be to run 10W40 for a month (middle of summer say June) and remove that setting aside a sample; flush, and install the 20W50 for a month (say July) and then remove it and a sample and send both off for testing and see what the results of the break down would be.

of course that would also predicate that you drove the same amount of miles each month and that the weather was of simular type in both months.

I would think that would be a much better test (showing actual results in a lab test) than just trying an oil for a short term- but I do commend you for trying something new.

CrypticApathy

on my Dipstick theres L X X X H well the oil is at L X X| X H (line is oil line).

I know it sounds like a stupid question but thsi is my first rotary engine and im trying to find ways to best take care of it.

homebrewer

Icemark, yep you are right, I should have kept the heavier oil in longer and done oil analysis tests on the two samples of different weight oils.


Anway, www.bobistheoilguy.com (BITOG) got a mention in hotrod magazine.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/...8;t=006146;p=1


Almost forgot, all of the ash content numbers on the net are basically not relevant anymore because of the API SM rating that replaced API SL. SM calls for less ZDDP because it has the potential to poison catalytic converters. As a result, SM oils should all be lower in ash content unless they used other additives to compensate for the loss of ZDDP.

As for the 20w-50, I just dumped it in to see what the hoopla was about. I didn't expect any miraculous improvement or change. I can now honestly state that I've run 20w50 oil and didn't notice any difference.

Turbo II

iTrader: (1)

Ummm guys, I still haven't gotten my answer. I went to Bob, I went to Consumer Reports, I went here, I went there, hell I tried to see God but he doesn't change his oil anymore....

Man, all these reports and stuff from all over are great. But they don't answer the question in my mind. What oil brand is best for a Mazda RX-7. To see what I am getting at think about this senario, actually it's real life experience and people ask me these things. I can go to test reports dot not and find out that Duracell is the best battery out there. It has 9.2 volts and holds it till it dies. Therefore I should use Duracell batteries in all of my effects pedals right? Wrong, it's the worse battery I could want for my vintage Ibanez Tube Screamer. Why? Because I tested batteries on vintage pedals and found that you don't allways want 9 volts for best tone. Some pedals sound better when batteries are less voltage, loosing power or about to die. I'm a tweak freak when it comes to musical stuff. I've been doing it for 35 years. So when someone wants to know if they will get shocked when they put their finger in the socket they don't go ask someone at Guitar Center or get on the forums at Harmony Central, they come to me. So what I'm getting at it this. I want to know from people who have lots of real life experience with oil AND rotary engines what they think. Not what Bob and his just as wacked forum think. I'm serious about this. Maybe it really isn't that important, just buy a good brand and change it when you're suppose to. Maybe there isn't a "right" answer. Then again, if it was important enough for Mazda to have someone develope an oil for the 787B Lemans run then I want to know what you guys think. I figure you guys are the "gurus" and damnit I climed the mountain now speak! BTW, I really do appreciate you guys and everyone else putting up with people like me all the time on stuff like this. Now lube me!

patman

iTrader: (3)

DUDE! there is no answer ot this question. you can use whatever oil you want. you can pay 100 bucks a gallon for the rotary specific **** that some companies sell, or you cna pay $1 a quart at the family dollar.

it is application specific.

for stock rx7: run 20/50 summer, 10/30 winter. pick a good brand, like valvoline or castrol, make sure its dino oil, and change every 3k miles

for high hp: run thicker oil. either 20/50 or 5/50 or something equivalent. if you have the OMP, run dino oil. if you have disabled it, run whatever you want.

HERE IS THE BOTTOM LINE

run whatever oil sounds good to you. it doesnt really matter what oil, just make sure it doesnt get low, and change it at regular intervals. thats all that matters. the wrong oil (within reason) wont kill a rotary. what kills them is low oil, high temperatures, or fuel problems leading to detonation.

dont run synthetic with the MOP system, unless you want to research the ash content of the oil, and find the brand that will work.

read your plugs, if youre running the wrong oil and getting a lot of carbon, you will see buildup onn the plugs. too much carbon can kill a rotary, hence mazda's recommendation to rev high once per drive, and the necessity to change oil often.

if thats not enough information for you, i dont know what is

pat

rick_tj

As Icemark said on page 2, Castrol GTX 10w30 is a great all purpose oil. Personally, I use it in all of our vehicles. I think the writeup in the Archives (written by a great guy) also suggests 10w30.

Party_kid2

I put in Mobil 1 10w-30 today with a fram filter. My car no longer sticks at 2000 rpms while coasting down my driveway in 1st. It climbs slowly. PROOF that the motor no long has to work against it'self as much. The old oil was 18month old, but had about 700 miles on it. Also, I was heeltoeing just right, but now I over shoot and the car jumps foward a tad when I slowing down. also, I can cruise at 55mph in 5th and still make it up hills without going to 4th like I was.

New plugs, wires, pcv valve, air and fuel filter nextweek. I have a 88 vert with 98k on the clock.

patman

iTrader: (3)

DO NOT use fram filters, they are crap.

check this for what to use:
http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/oil_filter_study/

i personally took apart a fram filter after i read that, because that is what i had been using, and everything they say is true.

i use NAPA gold, because i like NAPA, and they are a good filter

pat

Party_kid2

I don't have a napa close to my place, how about an Advance auto parts filter or purilator?