oil control seals vs blown turbo
Seduced by the DARK SIDE
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 7,323
Likes: 2
From: Orange Park FL (near Jax)
Originally Posted by f1blueRx7
simple way to fix this issue.... Give the oil pan a vaccum source. Usually you can just run a vacuum line to just infront of the turbo about 3-4 inches ahead of the blades over to the nipple on the oil tube. (thanks to digitalsynthesis and reted for this trick)
(old school emission control from the 1950's, - still works)
Why am I here ?
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 671
Likes: 0
From: Boston, MA
In piston engines that is called PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation.)
(old school emission control from the 1950's, - still works)
(old school emission control from the 1950's, - still works)
hugues-
f1BlueRx7...
can u explain more in detal this mod... my friend also had a smoking issue on his turbocharged NA, and he did something like this and it fixed the smoking....
can u explain more in detal this mod... my friend also had a smoking issue on his turbocharged NA, and he did something like this and it fixed the smoking....
Lives on the Forum
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 26,664
Likes: 22
From: n
Hmmm...I don't think I ever recommended doing that as described above, but the "crankcase" needs to be vented or under vacuum.
As people have mentioned, the "purge valve" on ours cars works as the PCV system.
If the crankcase isn't relieved of pressure, this cause the turbo to smoke, usually.
I had to troubleshoot several members who have contacted me about this, and this was usually the root cause.
Several of them were getting overenthusiastic on pulling emissions, and just managed to pull and plug both fittings on the oil filler pipe, one lower by the engine and the other higher by the oil filler cap.
This will cause excessive pressure to build-up in the crankcase, and the turbo will usually start to smoke.
An easy test for this is to remove the oil filler cap and drive around.
Drive easily to keep the oil from sloshing up the oil filler neck and making a mess!
If the smoke stops, you need to vent the crankcase or put back the purge valve system.
The quick&dirty test for the oil control rings is to rev the engine up to about 3k to 4k for at least 20 seconds.
If it smokes more, it's the oil control o-rings.
The increased vacuum from the high idle pulls the oil past the dead oil control o-rings, and this causes more oil to burn and smoke.
Check your intercooler hoses.
If it's coated heavily with oil, the turbo compressor seal died, and oil is being sucked into the compressor section.
Turbo needs to be rebuilt to replace the bad carbon seal.
The symptoms for this problem is intermittent heavy smoke out the exhaust that stops suddenly.
It's usually inconsistent and very hard to replicate easily.
This is due to oil pooling in the intercooler, and when enough of the oil has accumulated, it all gets sucked into the engine to burn.
Check your spark plugs.
If the turbo isn't spewing oil out the compressor side, and the spark plugs come out clean, then it's most likely the turbo has a bad turbine (piston compression) ring.
Turbo needs to be rebuilt to replace this ring.
This is my typical procedure to troubleshoot excessive oil smoke out the exhaust...
-Ted
As people have mentioned, the "purge valve" on ours cars works as the PCV system.
If the crankcase isn't relieved of pressure, this cause the turbo to smoke, usually.
I had to troubleshoot several members who have contacted me about this, and this was usually the root cause.
Several of them were getting overenthusiastic on pulling emissions, and just managed to pull and plug both fittings on the oil filler pipe, one lower by the engine and the other higher by the oil filler cap.
This will cause excessive pressure to build-up in the crankcase, and the turbo will usually start to smoke.
An easy test for this is to remove the oil filler cap and drive around.
Drive easily to keep the oil from sloshing up the oil filler neck and making a mess!
If the smoke stops, you need to vent the crankcase or put back the purge valve system.
The quick&dirty test for the oil control rings is to rev the engine up to about 3k to 4k for at least 20 seconds.
If it smokes more, it's the oil control o-rings.
The increased vacuum from the high idle pulls the oil past the dead oil control o-rings, and this causes more oil to burn and smoke.
Check your intercooler hoses.
If it's coated heavily with oil, the turbo compressor seal died, and oil is being sucked into the compressor section.
Turbo needs to be rebuilt to replace the bad carbon seal.
The symptoms for this problem is intermittent heavy smoke out the exhaust that stops suddenly.
It's usually inconsistent and very hard to replicate easily.
This is due to oil pooling in the intercooler, and when enough of the oil has accumulated, it all gets sucked into the engine to burn.
Check your spark plugs.
If the turbo isn't spewing oil out the compressor side, and the spark plugs come out clean, then it's most likely the turbo has a bad turbine (piston compression) ring.
Turbo needs to be rebuilt to replace this ring.
This is my typical procedure to troubleshoot excessive oil smoke out the exhaust...
-Ted
i checked inside the intercooler and no oil...
could it be the seal on the turbo is bad on the exhaust (hot) side? i have noticed when i start my car and look at the turbo where the downpipe attaches, it gets wet, and then as it warms up evaporates... is that because there is oil in there or fuel?
could it be the seal on the turbo is bad on the exhaust (hot) side? i have noticed when i start my car and look at the turbo where the downpipe attaches, it gets wet, and then as it warms up evaporates... is that because there is oil in there or fuel?
Maybe I didn't quite catch what he was saying, but this makes sense.
Thanks ted.
Thanks ted.
Originally Posted by RETed
Hmmm...I don't think I ever recommended doing that as described above, but the "crankcase" needs to be vented or under vacuum.
As people have mentioned, the "purge valve" on ours cars works as the PCV system.
If the crankcase isn't relieved of pressure, this cause the turbo to smoke, usually.
I had to troubleshoot several members who have contacted me about this, and this was usually the root cause.
Several of them were getting overenthusiastic on pulling emissions, and just managed to pull and plug both fittings on the oil filler pipe, one lower by the engine and the other higher by the oil filler cap.
This will cause excessive pressure to build-up in the crankcase, and the turbo will usually start to smoke.
An easy test for this is to remove the oil filler cap and drive around.
Drive easily to keep the oil from sloshing up the oil filler neck and making a mess!
If the smoke stops, you need to vent the crankcase or put back the purge valve system.
The quick&dirty test for the oil control rings is to rev the engine up to about 3k to 4k for at least 20 seconds.
If it smokes more, it's the oil control o-rings.
The increased vacuum from the high idle pulls the oil past the dead oil control o-rings, and this causes more oil to burn and smoke.
Check your intercooler hoses.
If it's coated heavily with oil, the turbo compressor seal died, and oil is being sucked into the compressor section.
Turbo needs to be rebuilt to replace the bad carbon seal.
The symptoms for this problem is intermittent heavy smoke out the exhaust that stops suddenly.
It's usually inconsistent and very hard to replicate easily.
This is due to oil pooling in the intercooler, and when enough of the oil has accumulated, it all gets sucked into the engine to burn.
Check your spark plugs.
If the turbo isn't spewing oil out the compressor side, and the spark plugs come out clean, then it's most likely the turbo has a bad turbine (piston compression) ring.
Turbo needs to be rebuilt to replace this ring.
This is my typical procedure to troubleshoot excessive oil smoke out the exhaust...
-Ted
As people have mentioned, the "purge valve" on ours cars works as the PCV system.
If the crankcase isn't relieved of pressure, this cause the turbo to smoke, usually.
I had to troubleshoot several members who have contacted me about this, and this was usually the root cause.
Several of them were getting overenthusiastic on pulling emissions, and just managed to pull and plug both fittings on the oil filler pipe, one lower by the engine and the other higher by the oil filler cap.
This will cause excessive pressure to build-up in the crankcase, and the turbo will usually start to smoke.
An easy test for this is to remove the oil filler cap and drive around.
Drive easily to keep the oil from sloshing up the oil filler neck and making a mess!
If the smoke stops, you need to vent the crankcase or put back the purge valve system.
The quick&dirty test for the oil control rings is to rev the engine up to about 3k to 4k for at least 20 seconds.
If it smokes more, it's the oil control o-rings.
The increased vacuum from the high idle pulls the oil past the dead oil control o-rings, and this causes more oil to burn and smoke.
Check your intercooler hoses.
If it's coated heavily with oil, the turbo compressor seal died, and oil is being sucked into the compressor section.
Turbo needs to be rebuilt to replace the bad carbon seal.
The symptoms for this problem is intermittent heavy smoke out the exhaust that stops suddenly.
It's usually inconsistent and very hard to replicate easily.
This is due to oil pooling in the intercooler, and when enough of the oil has accumulated, it all gets sucked into the engine to burn.
Check your spark plugs.
If the turbo isn't spewing oil out the compressor side, and the spark plugs come out clean, then it's most likely the turbo has a bad turbine (piston compression) ring.
Turbo needs to be rebuilt to replace this ring.
This is my typical procedure to troubleshoot excessive oil smoke out the exhaust...
-Ted
Always something...
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 944
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta, Ga USA
Well as F1blueRX7 said, I had a similar problem, due entirely to improper venting of the oil pan/turbo return. If both vents on the oil filler neck are sealed you will have this problem. If only one is sealed (ReTed and others recommend the lower one as it spits more oil, leaving the upper open or vented to a catch can) then you should have no trouble. I took this a step further and ran the upper vent to the intake a few inches in front of the turbo compressor inlet, between the turbo and the air filter. That took care of the problem instantly.
That is just my experience, with a freshly rebuilt turbo that had been smoking horribly when the oil pan was improperly vented. Now, no smoke whatsoever.
That is just my experience, with a freshly rebuilt turbo that had been smoking horribly when the oil pan was improperly vented. Now, no smoke whatsoever.
Mad Man
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,758
Likes: 2
From: Big Island Hawaii
Back from the dead, I am dead I'll be checking later today, I think my wifes tolerance is about exhausted. Three all nighters, a couple grand, and an aborted dyno session folled by a blown something...
I'll be checking later today, I think my wifes tolerance is about exhausted. Three all nighters, a couple grand, and an aborted dyno session folled by a blown something...
Mad Man
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,758
Likes: 2
From: Big Island Hawaii
Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection
Assuming you didn't hook an OMP line up to the turbo compressor side, I'd say it's a safe bet 
Turbo had 10 dyno pulls on it, nice...PT67 -4 feed(no restrictor), -10 vertical drain, Mobil one, to vents to atmosphere. My old garrett was installed with a ~10th " restrictor, ran great forever. Glad it's not the motor. was pretty freakin worried. What generally causes Oil control ring failure?
