matt87FC

iTrader: (12)

So heres the deal guys. Ive been building my t2 swap for a while now (going on a year sadly). I rebuilt the engine with fresh housings, used irons since they were good, s4 n/a rotors and brand new seals. Got the engine in and finally got it running. Had smoking which was to be expected. But it seems to never stop and i have oil dripping from the downpipe where it meets the turbo.

I decided to remove the turbo to see whats going on and what i found was a small puddle of oil inside the rear exhaust port, while the front was fairly dry.

So does this mean its my rear oil control rings or could the turbo be leaking and oil just running down through the exhaust manifold into the port? Engine hasnt seen more than 1 hour of idle time as of right not.

specs on muy build for reference:
s4 t2 irons
reman housings
s4 n/a rotors
Atkins Soft seal kit.
Atkins 2 piece apex seals.
re-used the oil control rings (i measured them nd they spec'd out per fsm standards)but replaced the soft seals
Full emissions delete
s4 turbo that i bought used supposedly had only 300 miles after being rebuilt
Rtek 2.0 running 550 primaries and 680 secondaries

AGreen

iTrader: (11)

Usually, you can look up from underneath and see if the turbo is leaking from between the exhaust housing and CHRA. I wonder if in this situation that the turbo would be leaking so much that it makes huge pools like you said.

Why not try pulling the turbo to check it out? Does the turbo have any shaft play in it?

matt87FC

iTrader: (12)

I did pull the turbo, found quite a bit of oil pooled in the exhaust manifold and inside the turbo by the flapper. I rotated the engine manually and looked to see if the oil puddled back in the exhaust port and from what i can tell it didn't pool again.

bumpstart

dud turbo
,, make sure the drain isnt blocked ( like with plug or rag )
and that the crankcase ventilation has vac on it

matt87FC

iTrader: (12)

Crankcase ventiliation? Do you mean the nipple on bottom of oil filler and top of filler? I just looped those to each other in lieu of running a catch can. Did I make a mistake doing that?

I'm going to borrow a buddies turbo and throw it on and see if the issue continues. But if not having a ventilated catch can is what could have blown the turbo, I want to take care of that issue first aand not blow his turbo as well.

PhillyRX

iTrader: (7)

I think you just solved your own problem. The crankcase definitely needs to be ventilated in one way or the other. I just bought a catch can on ebay for under $20 shipped if you're looking around for one.

AGreen

iTrader: (11)

If you have removed your rats nest and in the process, removed the crankcase ventilation system, read this article. It's a great explanation of what needs to be done to remove any buildup of crankcase vapors in the engine.

www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=960729

matt87FC

iTrader: (12)

Wow. I originally had planned on running an oil catch can but a buddy told me that it wasnt needed as he knew an engine builder that doesnt run it on his turbo car.

FAIL

So does this mean my turbo is most likely blown completely or I am just getting oil blowby because of no ventilation? I am looking into getting an oil catch can as I type this.

PhyllyRx-Any chance you could send a link of the one you purchased?

Any oil catch can should suffice correct? Or do i need one that specifically ventilated?

bumpstart

IME it needs to have a vacuum for turbo engines , else dont pass go
your welcome to try and fail like the 4000 people before you who believe a can is simply enough

easiest vac source is to emulate the mazda full load path direction,, and thats simply hooking the vacuum to the air cleaner
if you wish to avoid the oil mist going through the intercooler then you have to get tricky with purge control valves and the complexity goes through the roof

matt87FC

iTrader: (12)

I do want to do this properly. Don't want to go through turbos like they're candy, let alone blow my engine that I have been working on for a year. lol

Ill read through the threads provided, was just trying to figure out what can is the best to purchase or if they're all the same so i can order one as soon as possible.

PhillyRX

iTrader: (7)

hey matt, here's the one that i ordered. http://www.ebay.com/itm/251033750390...ht_3586wt_1035

bumpstart, pardon my ignorance, but would it be effective if i ran a line from the bottom nipple of the oil filler tube to one nipple on the can, and a preturbo vacuum line to the other can nipple? or do the locations of these have to be at different heights to work? thanks.

matt87FC

iTrader: (12)

So I am wondering.....would the lack of the catch can blow my turbo completely? I vented the crank case and put my turbo back on to see if i notice any difference and nothing really changed. I ran it until I could physically. See oil leaking from my turbo.

Once I saw that I cut the engine off and removed my turbo again as I have another one my buddy is letting me borrow/buy.

My old turbo has absolutely 0 play in any direction and spins freely. Is it possible that the pressure could have totally blown the oil seal or whatever in the turbo completely as opposed to it only being blowby? Gonna finish bolting up the other turbo in a few to see what happens.

AGreen

iTrader: (11)

A rotary really doesn't create a significant amount of blowby, when compared to a piston engine. The turbo was just worn out. The turbine seal (which is the worn out component we're talking about here) is metal. It is literally a little ring that sits in a groove with ends that butt together, just like a piston ring. Over time they will wear out one way or another, just like piston rings and apex seals.

A rebuild kit from Gpopshop shipped to your house is around $75.

Get the garrett T3 basic kit with the 1-piece carbon encapsulated compressor seal:
http://gpopshop.com/garrett-t3-t4-t3t4-kits-2/

matt87FC

iTrader: (12)

Went and put other turbo on, car still smokes the same as it did with my other turbo on it. So does that mean its not the turbo then?

Don't know if it matters much, but the second turbo has a little more shaft play than my original one, I only rran it for about 4 minutes. The smoke seems to be lighter at first, but once I rev it up I get a complete smoke screen behind the car. Once I saw that, I cut the engine off and am stopping for the day. I couldnt see any visible oil leaking from the turbo this time though.

The engine has probably oonly been run for maybe a total of an hour and a half since rebuild. While the smoke has subsided compared to first startup, it is still an unacceptable amount.

Alak

iTrader: (9)

If it's a turbo issue there likely won't be oil in the runner or port. Turbos *usually* leak after the turbo. If it's an oil seal issue, only one port or runner would be wet, unless both rotors share the same issue. This could be evident on the spark plugs.

But I would go for the easiest solution and check the turbo oil drain.

Edit: if the turbo drain was plugged you would likely also get oil on the inlet side now that I think about it. Another thought is that have you run the engine upto operating temperature yet? Could just be excessive assembly lube. Also, have you monitored oil consumption if any?

matt87FC

iTrader: (12)

I havent been able to monitor oil consumption yet. I do know that the oil has gone down, but i figured that the oil had to get circulated through the engine and thats why it went down.

Only the rear rotor exhaust port seems to have the oil build up, front exhaust port seems dry compared to rear one.

Alak

iTrader: (9)

I'd venture a guess and say it's a issue with oiling in the rear rotor.

The oil level will drop to circulate and fill the system. It takes about 15 minutes to drain back to the sump when the oil is warm, minus oil that's filled cavities an such, like the cooler.

matt87FC

iTrader: (12)

Yeah. I'm jumping to worst case scenario that i need to pull the engine and see whats up with my rear rotor oil control seals. Atleast this time I know what I am doing and wont take nearly as long as last time. :-\

I'm pretty fast at pulling the turbo now that ive done it 6+ times. Lol

Alak

iTrader: (9)

Yah it sucks but it happens. I've heard you can burn excessive oil if you put then in improperly, but ive never done it myself. I know one member here put one in wrong but it didn't burn that much oil. It was in a turbo race car and he said it was a tolerable amount, just looked like he mixed the premix a little thick.

matt87FC

iTrader: (12)

Yeah I'm wondering if i put in the oil control ring springs in backwards too maybe and if that would cause the oil to be able to get by the seal.

Alak

iTrader: (9)

You have to put them in a certain way to the direction of rotation. Its been while but I know it's easy to mix up because the front and rear rotor stat gears are on opposite sides so you kinda have to think about it while your doing it lol.

matt87FC

iTrader: (12)

Deciding to just pull the motor again. :-\ gonna pull a risky move and try and only pull the rear iron and rotor out. Do not have any money at the moment to buy new seals again for a motor thats seen less that an hour run time. So I'm gonna clamp the front and rear housings together using the exhaust studs and possibly bolts in the spark plug holes to keep the other irons and housing from moving. Hopefully this works and i can check out the rear rotor and get away with just re-sealing everything. If not then ill have to let the motor sit until I can get another O-ring kit.

matt87FC

iTrader: (12)

Thought id give an update to anyone that searches and comes upon this thread, took the engine out and. Cracked her open. Rear rotor had the rear pair of oil control rings in upside down where the notchenotches were facing outwards and not inwards towards the rotor to catch on the oil control ring springs.

full-cruise

iTrader: (5)

it happens man .. you live to build and build to learn

matt87FC

iTrader: (12)

yeah, I managed to bust my rear iron in the process of removing it as well. lol Got an s5 t2 iron now and gonna put the motor back in today and hopefully have her back up and running by this evening. Engine removal only took me an hour, so I'm guessing about 4 hours to get it back in and have everything attached.