Not enough power to the starter!!!
03-16-09, 03:29 PM
#26
HAILERS
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Okay, so we're all on the same page:
The starter and battery and ignition switch are all new.
Turn the key and the starter turns, but not well enough to start the car. This was the case for 2 different new starters.
My grounds are very tight, scrubbed, and covered in di-electric grease. I checked again and again.
Hailers, in a previous post, you said the neg cable goes to the long bolt on the starter. Now you're saying the pos cable goes to the long bolt?!
Does anyone see a problem with me running all new wires from the battery to the starter. Perhaps a push button for ignition?
The starter and battery and ignition switch are all new.
Turn the key and the starter turns, but not well enough to start the car. This was the case for 2 different new starters.
My grounds are very tight, scrubbed, and covered in di-electric grease. I checked again and again.
Hailers, in a previous post, you said the neg cable goes to the long bolt on the starter. Now you're saying the pos cable goes to the long bolt?!
Does anyone see a problem with me running all new wires from the battery to the starter. Perhaps a push button for ignition?
No. I got incredibly stupid when I wrote that. Sorry 'bout that. What part of town do you live on? Is this car up on jacks or car ramps?
03-17-09, 02:09 PM
#27
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If you don't or didn't, or wont jumper the starter when it is IN the car, you cant isolate the problem. my reason for asking you to jumper the starter while its in the car is to move your focus from the connections in the engine bay to the wiring for the solenoid. even if your ignition switch is new, it could still be defective.
03-17-09, 02:18 PM
#28
Green Flameless
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This is a stupid question: How much resistance is there to turning the engine over "by hand" (with a 19mm socket/ratchet on the main crank bolt)?
If you pull the spark plugs out, the motor should spin reasonably easily, since it won't be building compression. If you pull out the plugs and it's still hard to crank, perhaps you've eaten a seal or something that wedged itself in and is providing resistance?
If you pull the spark plugs out, the motor should spin reasonably easily, since it won't be building compression. If you pull out the plugs and it's still hard to crank, perhaps you've eaten a seal or something that wedged itself in and is providing resistance?
03-17-09, 02:27 PM
#29
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I have had a similar problem for about 4 years. However, mine would only crank whenever it wanted to. Over the past few years trying to fix the problem I have gone through 3 batteries, 3 starters, 2 ignition switches, replaced major battery wiring, replaced fuses, cleaned all connections in the starter circuit and nevery found a fix. I ended up bypassing the ignition and putting in a starter button. Sorry i dont have a fix to the problem but you may want to setup a temporary starter button so the car is at least drivable untill you have more time to locate and fix the issue. Just a thought.
03-17-09, 04:26 PM
#31
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His starter solenoid seems ok and his ignition key are ok because the starter does turn over.
The WONKO THE SAME remark about "does the engine turn over easily by hand" is something that has occured to me. He's checked the cables and has a new battery etc, so it does make one wonder a bit about it being the engine itself.
The WONKO THE SAME remark about "does the engine turn over easily by hand" is something that has occured to me. He's checked the cables and has a new battery etc, so it does make one wonder a bit about it being the engine itself.
03-19-09, 10:50 PM
#33
Its not my thread, but since I'm online ill update:
We (me drinking beer, him working) got the starter turning over real nice and strong by running new pos. And neg. Battery wires and installing a push start button from the pos. Term to the solenoid. It turns over reeeeal nice and strong now, but now its flooded real hardcore like. Go figure, lol.
We (me drinking beer, him working) got the starter turning over real nice and strong by running new pos. And neg. Battery wires and installing a push start button from the pos. Term to the solenoid. It turns over reeeeal nice and strong now, but now its flooded real hardcore like. Go figure, lol.
03-23-09, 11:02 AM
#34
bov ftw
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Sorry i let this thread die, guys. I've been staying at my girlfriend's place downtown, so I can walk to work. Anyway...
As texfcturboII said, I ran new 4ga wires from the battery pos and neg to the starter and installed a pushbutton switch.
The switch is really cool, too; located in place of my cig lighter. It looks totally stock.
I deflooded the motor and took her on a victory ride around the neighborhood. I'm sure the neighbors are pleased (totally sarcastic).
That was a total blast, but a problem still remains: The battery drains out after sitting in the driveway overnight.
When I had a TII in college, the car was only 10 years old. Now that I'm sporting another, it's 21 years old running on 21 year old wires. I'm SOOOOO ready to rip out the motor and anything that goes with and start again from the ground up.
To answer your question, Hailers, I just moved to the east side of town by the Oakland exit off 30. And no, it's not on stands.
As texfcturboII said, I ran new 4ga wires from the battery pos and neg to the starter and installed a pushbutton switch.
The switch is really cool, too; located in place of my cig lighter. It looks totally stock.
I deflooded the motor and took her on a victory ride around the neighborhood. I'm sure the neighbors are pleased (totally sarcastic).
That was a total blast, but a problem still remains: The battery drains out after sitting in the driveway overnight.
When I had a TII in college, the car was only 10 years old. Now that I'm sporting another, it's 21 years old running on 21 year old wires. I'm SOOOOO ready to rip out the motor and anything that goes with and start again from the ground up.
To answer your question, Hailers, I just moved to the east side of town by the Oakland exit off 30. And no, it's not on stands.
03-23-09, 11:10 AM
#35
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Its not my thread, but since I'm online ill update:
We (me drinking beer, him working) got the starter turning over real nice and strong by running new pos. And neg. Battery wires and installing a push start button from the pos. Term to the solenoid. It turns over reeeeal nice and strong now, but now its flooded real hardcore like. Go figure, lol.
We (me drinking beer, him working) got the starter turning over real nice and strong by running new pos. And neg. Battery wires and installing a push start button from the pos. Term to the solenoid. It turns over reeeeal nice and strong now, but now its flooded real hardcore like. Go figure, lol.
So if the ECU does not see START, the afm is used for fuel. The afm delivers much less fuel than the internal ECU start map.
So. Mabe you not flooding but have a lack of fuel during start now?????? Possible. That is a possibility if the new start button bypasses the orginal, stock wiring for starting the car.
Maybe you can splice the stock wire to the wire you have on the starter solenoid to overcome that possible problem? The stock wire would be the one that was originally on the starter solenoid. The small wire.
EDIT: Not only that, but when you put the key to START it also sends battery voltage to the circuit opening relay. That causes the fuel pump to run as long as the key is HELD to start (stock wiring). So if your using a button with new wiring to start the engine, the ECU and Circuit Opening Relay are both not seeing the start signal. The fuel pump might start to work if the flap in the afm is pulled back enough for the fuel switch in the afm to *make*, thereby making the fuel pump run.
03-24-09, 07:14 PM
#36
bov ftw
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I believe you about the motor starting lean. I only started that motor after deflood by spraying some carb cleaner through the intake. But even if the motor doesn't get enough fuel for starting, the battery still drains out overnight.
03-25-09, 04:03 PM
#37
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Two things to look at. First make sure the key is put alllll the wayyyy to OFF and not to the positon just prior to OFF, which is called ACC. It makes a difference. All the way OFF should extinguish the clock illumination.
IF that does not do the trick, try, at the end of the day, removing the small two wire plug on the alternator to prove that's not leaking batt voltage thur wiring etc. Put the plug back on the next morning prior to starting.
Three.......make sure it's not some aftermarket radio/stuff sucking the life out of the battery at night.
The fuses shown in the jpg that have IG1 and IG2 next to them are switched power fuses. Like the key has to be ON for them to have power. The other fuses above them are on a Batt bus and have Batt power on them all 24/7. Just saying they have the most potentiol to suck life out of the battery if some item fed by them is not turned off.
The fuses in the engine bay are also batt power 24/7 and also have potential to pull the batt down if something tied into them isn't turned off all the way.
06-23-09, 11:18 AM
#38
bov ftw
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Back from the dead; ME, not the 7.
Thank you, HAILERS, for the new advice. I've been sick of working on this beast and since bought another car. Only today am I ready to get this 7 back on the road; I had a 7-dream last night.
The battery is getting recharged, and I bought my own multimeter instead of borrowing texFCturboII's. 'Bout Time.
Next move is to splice the new start button wire with the old wire so the ecu gets the signal to kick on the fuel pump. Then, I suppose I will drive it around and park it, pull the prong out of the alternator and let it sit overnight...? Then try to start again.
If this doesn't work, I'll be looking for a drain. Correct me if I'm wrong on this method for elec. drain searching:
1. Set multimeter to amps.
2. Have a charged battery
3. Disconnect battery neg and place multimeter in line with cable and battery.
4. Observe drain (what amount should the meter read in normal conditions?!?!)
5. Pull fuses until the drain drops to normal (again, what is a normal amount?!)
The battery is getting recharged, and I bought my own multimeter instead of borrowing texFCturboII's. 'Bout Time.
Next move is to splice the new start button wire with the old wire so the ecu gets the signal to kick on the fuel pump. Then, I suppose I will drive it around and park it, pull the prong out of the alternator and let it sit overnight...? Then try to start again.
If this doesn't work, I'll be looking for a drain. Correct me if I'm wrong on this method for elec. drain searching:
1. Set multimeter to amps.
2. Have a charged battery
3. Disconnect battery neg and place multimeter in line with cable and battery.
4. Observe drain (what amount should the meter read in normal conditions?!?!)
5. Pull fuses until the drain drops to normal (again, what is a normal amount?!)
06-23-09, 12:20 PM
#39
bov ftw
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Charged the battery, spliced the old ignition wire with the new one, and let her rip. She fires up just fine without spraying carb cleaner in the intake. Thanks for the tip, HAILERS. I drove it around the block and felt great.
I let her sit for 10 minutes and she still starts on her own just fine. If she can do the same thing overnight, I'll really be pleased, but I doubt it.
Why did you say I should yank the two prong connector from the back of the alt? To see if there's a drain or not? Could you please explain how this works?
I let her sit for 10 minutes and she still starts on her own just fine. If she can do the same thing overnight, I'll really be pleased, but I doubt it.
Why did you say I should yank the two prong connector from the back of the alt? To see if there's a drain or not? Could you please explain how this works?
06-27-09, 07:48 PM
#41
Rotary Freak
Charged the battery, spliced the old ignition wire with the new one, and let her rip. She fires up just fine without spraying carb cleaner in the intake. Thanks for the tip, HAILERS. I drove it around the block and felt great.
I let her sit for 10 minutes and she still starts on her own just fine. If she can do the same thing overnight, I'll really be pleased, but I doubt it.
Why did you say I should yank the two prong connector from the back of the alt? To see if there's a drain or not? Could you please explain how this works?
I let her sit for 10 minutes and she still starts on her own just fine. If she can do the same thing overnight, I'll really be pleased, but I doubt it.
Why did you say I should yank the two prong connector from the back of the alt? To see if there's a drain or not? Could you please explain how this works?
************************************************** ************************************************** ******************************88
Yeah. I suggested pulling the small plug off the alt just to see if it was draining the battery overnight. Always have that plug on when running the engine. Saves the alt regulator.
07-03-09, 12:31 PM
#42
Rotary Freak
[QUOTE=V8what?!;9309556]Charged the battery, spliced the old ignition wire with the new one, and let her rip. She fires up just fine without spraying carb cleaner in the intake. Thanks for the tip, HAILERS. I drove it around the block and felt great.
I let her sit for 10 minutes and she still starts on her own just fine. If she can do the same thing overnight, I'll really be ************************************************** ************************************************** ********************************8
One thing I keep forgetting to mention. IF someone rigs a seperate wire to the starter solenoid and completley bypasses the original wiring to the starter, not only does he lose the ECU start map and the signal to the Circuit Opening Relay, but also loses another feature. The RX normal timing at idle is 5*ATDC for Lead and 20*ATDC for Trail. But during Start both are advanced to 5*BTDC.
The ECU only knows to do this IF it sees that voltage on the starter trigger wire.
I let her sit for 10 minutes and she still starts on her own just fine. If she can do the same thing overnight, I'll really be ************************************************** ************************************************** ********************************8
One thing I keep forgetting to mention. IF someone rigs a seperate wire to the starter solenoid and completley bypasses the original wiring to the starter, not only does he lose the ECU start map and the signal to the Circuit Opening Relay, but also loses another feature. The RX normal timing at idle is 5*ATDC for Lead and 20*ATDC for Trail. But during Start both are advanced to 5*BTDC.
The ECU only knows to do this IF it sees that voltage on the starter trigger wire.
07-23-09, 02:24 PM
#43
bov ftw
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There's a "HAILERS2" now...okay, anyway
I hooked up the multimeter and started pullin fuses. Drain goes right away when I pull the 30amp HEAD fuse. Found it! Now to find the actual faulty wire...
I hooked up the multimeter and started pullin fuses. Drain goes right away when I pull the 30amp HEAD fuse. Found it! Now to find the actual faulty wire...
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