blackball7

iTrader: (1)

I've got this noise coming from the bell housing of my transmission. It's like a squeal or squeak, but very faint until about 2K rpm's. It gets worse the more load that is put on the engine and it goes away completely when the clutch pedal is depressed.

Flywheel is resurfaced with a new ACT HDSS Clutch and pressure plate (the closest to stock they have), new pilot bearing, and new throwout bearing. I've put less than 100 miles on everything so far. The clutch bites very well and nothing is slipping. It has made the noise from the first startup and seems to be getting worse. Does anyone have any idea what this might be?

w0ppe

Was the pilot bearing installed correctly and everything assembled as it's supposed to be? I'd double check the work honestly since the symptoms point to it again

blackball7

iTrader: (1)

Which part does it point to is what I'm looking for, I already figured it was work related

RXSpeed16

iTrader: (41)

Pilot, throw out and trans input shaft bearings are suspect. One of the new bearings may need to bed in a bit, is bad out of the box, not greased enough, or damaged during install. Can't really tell without inspecting each piece.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

most likely it is the throwout bearing. if you do not clean and grease the throwout bearing shaft on the transmission the bearing can drag on the pressure plate. make sure your pedal has about 1/2" of free play as well otherwise it may be applying pressure to the throwout, causing the drag. sometimes you just get a junk throwout bearing, if it goes away with light pedal application then you can be pretty sure it is the throwout bearing.

pilot bearing cannot be suspect as it isn't even used without the pedal depressed.

blackball7

iTrader: (1)

I used grease that you would on a wheel bearing, might that be it? I've used the same before and it worked. From what I have read I feel it is the throwout bearing. I've read that ACT has had some issues with their throwout bearings in the past. I'm going to put it up on some jack stands and see if I can see anything wrong from the inspection plate and I'll bleed the clutch just to make sure that's kosher.

blackball7

iTrader: (1)

Should there be a gap between the pressure plate and throwout bearing? There certainly is not one on mine.

The clutch pedal has 1/2" - 1" of free play.

I could only see the edge of the bearing through the hole, for what I can only imagine is for removing heat from the clutch. I bet I could get a good look at it with a fiber optic viewing cable.

I am really annoyed that I will most likely have to pull this damned engine out again... At least I don't have all the emissions crap or rubber vac lines to deal with anymore.

I'll be calling ACT tomorrow to see what they have to say on the matter also

lduley

iTrader: (1)

Pull the engine? Why pull the engine when you can just drop the trans?

blackball7

iTrader: (1)

I don't own a transmission jack, nor do I have access to one.

I talked to ACT, they also believe it sounds like the bearing came bad. There is supposed to be an air gap between the pressure plate and throwout bearing, though I can't be 100% that there isn't a gap on mine without a fiber optic viewing cable.

Such a disappointment that I have to pull this damn thing apart after less than 100 miles... It's so much more fun to drive than a full sized truck.

lduley

iTrader: (1)

Get some beer and a couple buddies, cheap transmission jack

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

if the engine is simplified then sometimes it is a push as to pull the engine or drop the transmission as to which is easier. on my car there is little difference in effort comparison.

blackball7

iTrader: (1)

Yes, for me, pulling the motor is easier since I just had the thing out as well as the lack of space in my garage for pulling a transmission.

After sulking about having to remove it for a couple weeks, I finally pulled it out. I found that the groove on the inside of the bearing had become caught on the end of the smooth part of the input shaft. How this was able to happen is beyond me. I don't believe the bearing is bad, though I have no way to test it under load. I'm going to replace the clutch fork spring, other than that, there really isn't anything else I can think of that could possibly cause this issue.

Any suggestions from anyone?

TonyD89

iTrader: (10)

Take a good look at that input shaft bearing to be sure and, obviously, make sure there is sufficient oil in the transmission as that would promote an internal bearing failure.

blackball7

iTrader: (1)

New clutch fork spring and the bastard still squeaks....

It's so disappointing when you put an engine back in, then have to take it back out again. That's what I get for being cheap I guess.

Hopefully it is just that bearing. This was not an issue with the last one that was in there and it was the one from the factory

blackball7

iTrader: (1)

I recently emailed Chris about this issue since he is the one that put the pilot bearing in my motor and he is saying that the pilot bearing is suspect. Now I don't believe he took the time to fully understand my issue here as yourself, others, and the reading I have done for myself points elsewhere. How positive are you that the pilot bearing cannot be suspect?

I really don't want to throw parts and money at this thing, but I also do not want to replace one bearing and it be the other.... If there is even a chance that the pilot bearing is the culprit, I'll change both. There was no physical indication that it was the throwout bearing, though it could very well be inside the bearing that is causing the issue.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

simple, with the clutch out the disc is spinning the input shaft of the transmission, the pilot isn't doing any work at that time.

the only parts that are working in the clutch area with your foot off the pedal is the transmission input bearing and a lightly dragging throwout bearing.


if the noise wasn't there prior to doing any clutch work, it's unlikely the transmission input bearing went south in a short period of time. if you apply light pedal pressure and the noise goes away, replace the throwout bearing, that is not a guess. make sure the new bearing slides easily on the cone of the input shaft prior to assembly, lube it well with bearing grease as you did before and be sure there is a small amount of free play in the pedal before you feel any pressure building.

blackball7

iTrader: (1)

I appreciate your input on this! and I do agree with you that the throw out bearing should be the issue. I changed it out and the noise is still there.... Is there anything that could be making these go out? The bearing I just took out had clearly audible ball bearing movement when you shake it and play in the bearing itself. The bearing I put in had no such noise or movement of the bearing, like the new, old bearing did.

There was no noise until the motor heated up the second time and I pressed the clutch a few times while still parked. It started out quite faint, but the more I let it run, the worse it gets.

I'm going to run it until the noise becomes unbearable, then I'll pull the motor, again, and change both the pilot and throw out bearings for good measure. If anything I will know for sure that it is the throw out bearing if it has the same slop as the most recent.

An interesting case, if nothing else.... How often do you get not 1, but 2 bad bearings from the factory?

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Hard to believe 2 bad bearings. To me it's down to a T/O bearing/area problem or trans. First, oil in trans?
How about disconnecting the linkage at the fork, then seen if there is movement fore and aft.
If so, put a spring on the fork to engine side to keep the bearing away from the PP fingers and
give it a try, but make certain trans is in neutral.

blackball7

iTrader: (1)

There is absolutely no reason to suspect the transmission. The noise is not consistent with anything transmission related. It is 100% one of those bearings.

I did think about a spring to keep the bearing off of the pressure plate. Not sure where I would find a suitable spring for that though...

By "disconnecting the linkage" I'm assuming you mean remove the slave cylinder.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Well, it can't be the pilot bearing as that turns the same speed as the flywheel, disc, PP, trans input shaft when the clutch is engaged, and
you've discounted the trans, only one item remaining T/O bearing.

Yes, slave cylinder, rod to fork, then you'll be able to see if there is movement/free play by moving the fork back and forth.
If there is play, you can even use a piece of rope, or wire to pull the end of the fork forward to keep the T/O bearing off the PP.

blackball7

iTrader: (1)

I pulled the motor and changed the pilot bearing. Found that the rubber had melted to the back of the e-shaft cavity and the bearing was not moving freely.

Can someone clear something up for me please. Does the input shaft rest inside of the pilot bearing, or does it move back and forth in that cavity?

I'm going to assume it was trying to put the motor in by myself, with a fucked up back, that has caused this issue.

I replaced the bearing and used the metal part of the seal, what was left after the rubber melted. (Which may have been a mistake...) I put it all back together over the weekend and after about 20 - 30 miles, it started making that noise again. Could it be the seal? I've put a few of these motors in before and have never had this problem. What the hell?

I'm going to have another set of hands next time. Any advice?


I've barely got 200 miles on this rebuild and I am just itching to drive it...

Acesanugal

iTrader: (5)

The smooth part of the input shaft is what lives within the pilot bearing. I've had a few fail and cause some funky problems. Not quite as bad as an ear breaking off your release bearing lol. It's important to get the bearing and seal installed properly... You want the pilot bearing in far enough so when the dust seal is installed, it is flush with the base of the taper of the eccentric shaft.

jjwalker

I don't want to start a new thread since in here we are already talking about transmission noises.

I disengage my clutch right at the sweet spot, enough to get the car moving but yet, not shock loading the transmission...if that makes sense.

I had my transmission overhauled a year ago and this just started right after the warranty expired.

It goes "TINK". I know the clutch is going to make some noise but, I am not used to a metallic "TINK" noise. I don't see broken mounts, is it just the clutch engaging and the clutch springs taking up?

fc323

You dont have to put in a new dust seal... its not like dirt and such can go throught the e shaft anyways. Maybe it'll even save you the headache of the noise your having

Acesanugal

iTrader: (5)

^^^ well, I suppose if you don't care to do things properly that you would not bother with the dust seal. On the pilot bearing I have had fail before, the dust seal was nowhere to be found. It was not one that I had installed, because I use the dust seals. I sincerely doubt that failing to install the dust seal would result in less noise. It will however allow friction material from the clutch to enter into the bearing and wear it out that much quicker.