Apex944

iTrader: (10)

So, I have set the timing per the FSM.
Set to yellow leading mark which is -5 degree's, set the CAS gear to the dot, pull the cover off the CAS to make sure it does not rotate, start the car.

Well, when I start the car with it setup like this the car will NOT run.
I have to cut off fuel, pump the throttle a few times, it starts firing and I turn the fuel back on and it runs like ****. I try to rev and it doesnt do anything until I let off and then it revs up a little.

So I started going through each tooth on the CAS until I found one that worked.
It happened to be about the 3rd tooth before the correct one when looking at the top of the CAS.

So, when it's setup 3 teeth or so from the one it's supposed to be on it fires up on first try. Runs excellent, revs beautifully, no issues other than my timing marks are out of sight completely no matter how far I turn the CAS. I even grinded out the slot on the CAS to allow it to retard farther and it still will not line up.

The marks are on the far left side of the pulley when looking from the front of the engine.

I tried moving the CAS 1-2 teeth in both directions and it just makes it run like complete ****.

I beleive when I used a timing light to check the degree's of advance it's at it said something around 37 degrees or so advanced.



Any idea's?



It run's great and makes great power, just the timing scares me a little.


I will be at 7 stock on the 26th with my car if anybody wants to take a look at it and help me out


Thanks for any help

HAILERS

Maybe buy the RacingBeat pulley or Mazdatrix pulley and install it. They have timing marks on them. Unfortunaltly those are underdrive pulleys and cost sixty bucks. But you could use it to make new marks on your present pulley.http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda2.htm

Also the above is a one part unit. The hub and pulley are all one part, so you'd have to remove the present hub to fit it.

Or buy a used pulley. Or maybe pull your pulley off (not the hub, but the pulley that is held on with four small bolts). Then determine if someone has hogged out the holes so it would fit. One hole is offset where it SHOULD HAVE gone on only one way, the right way. If they hogged out one of the holes, then it might go on several ways....the wrong ways.

If it's a rebuilt engine, someone could have put the Drive gear for the CAS on backwards which will cause the CAS to be difficult to be installed right.

Apex944

iTrader: (10)

I have changed pullies to make sure it wasnt the pulley and there wasnt any difference.
I could have put the drive gear on backwards, but I don't think it would be so far off that I couldnt reach it with the grinded out CAS slot method. I found that you used the same method before when I searched around the forum
I retarded the CAS as far as it would go until it hit my block and the marks were still far off.

I can't figure out what's going on at all other than possibly my timing light is crap?

I will put up some pic's tomorrow night to show how far off it is on the pulley and how my CAS is setup.

HAILERS

I'm not familiar with sophisticated timing lights. Only the cheap ones that just flash and have no adjustments etc. So, maybe your timing light is the problem??? Isn't there someway to set that thing to zero or ???? Maybe someone familiar with those adjustable lights can pipe in.

Apex944

iTrader: (10)

Got a little busy with school and work the past couple of days...


Here's a few pic's of my CAS setup....





I rechecked my timing with a snap-on timing light earlier tonight and according to it, I am 120 degree's advanced from -5 leading timing yet the car runs fine.....

RETed

It might be the infamous mismatched pulley / boss combo?

BTW, be careful with the absolute numbers off the timing light.
How is the timing light set?
4, 6, 8 cylinders?

Of the car runs and no hint of pinging, **** it...just run it like that.


-Ted

Apex944

iTrader: (10)

You know what, I forgot about the rear hub for the pulley.... It's what determines which way the pulley bolts up.
It could be wrong now that I think about it....
Guess i'm going to pick n pull tomorrow to take it off the S4 T2 that's sitting out there.

It's all that makes sense seeing as everything i've tried has failed so far...

I've used a regular non-adjustable DIS timing light, a tach advance timing light, a MAC tools 2 stroke / 4 stroke advance timing light, and a snap-on timing light with not much of a difference in results.

I'm going to tap into my knock sensor later today and watch it with a vantage pro oscilliscope to see if it's reading any pinging. I don't hear any but it doesn't mean there isn't any there.
I will try to swap the rear pulley boss as well, if I can get ahold of one.

If no change and no knocking, then I will leave it alone for now. Then later on I will re-mark the pulley myself next time I have a chance to get on a dyno and try to setup the best timing I can for power before knock occurs.

Thanks for the help RETed.
Can't believe I didn't think about the pulley boss being wrong xD.

HAILERS

I once wrote a thread on how to find True TDC by using liquid displacement. I will not repeat it. It's simply removing the Lead and trail spark plugs. Installing a half inch dia vinyl tube in the front rotors spark plug holes. Then, with the engine being as close to TDC as possible, fill the LEAD vynil tube with liquid (like colored two stroke oil from Wal-Mart.

Use a squirt can. Sooner or later the fluid will exit the Trail sparkplug hole. Let it rise up the hose in the trail sparkplug hole for several inches.

Then, with a wrench on the front pulley bolt, SLIGHTLY move the wrench back and forth. The direction that the fluid moves UP the hose in the Trail plug hole indicates your moving towards TDC. Keep turning til the fluid in the hose stops rising and JUST starts going down. That point should be TDC. Do it SEVERAL times and make sure the fluid stops moving down at the same point each time you do this. Double checking your work is what your doing.

IT is MESSY. And air bubbles in the lines will confuse your findings. Get rid of air bubbles. Ah shoot, I did almost repeat it. Last time.

Since you have a series five (right??),there is a long posted method using a mirror to find TDC. It is not and cannot be applicable for series four engines. The plug holes are a located a bit different on series five vs series four. I'll see if I can find that link and paste it later.

HAILERS

Bottom of this site: http://www.teamfc3s.org/info/articles/demystifying.html

Not applicable for series four in my very humble opinion. Close does not count and that's all you get on a series four.

My very bad.......you have a series four. It's written all over your thread. I was thinking of someone else. Try the link and the mirror and see how close you are with what you have right now. It takes not much time and is not that hard with good eyesight.

Apex944

iTrader: (10)

Well I tried the TDC via the apex seal in the spark plug hole and I was somewhat close timing wise but still far off.

I then took the hub off of my spare S4 T2 engine and put it on....
I had the clutch pedal held down with an extension rod, the kind that telescopes and locks in place and you have to pull the tab to release it, while I pulled the front bolt of course.

Timing is PERFECT now.

The car idle's, cruises, drives, pulls, and decel's way better than ever now.

Wish I had thought about the pulley hub earlier

Perhaps hailer's should make a thread for the archives about timing issue's?
One that includes pulley and hub combination problems, finding TDC both ways that you figured out, etc...


Thanks for all of the help everybody

HAILERS

Thank the Reted guy.

89t295k

Wonder if you can use the inspection plate on the flywheel to locate the counter weight?
Use some fingers to find when it is at it's lowest spot and then you know the front keyway is vertical in the front......

No tools required if you bend the plate out then back again.

HAILERS

How about ACCURACY? NOT.

89t295k

"How about ACCURACY? NOT."

Haha, all these methods are only as good as your measurements.

Least I came up with another way to find keyway position...JA

And might I add , easier to measure it's postion since it has a flat edge on the counter weight that can be matched with the pan for exactly pinpointing it vertical.

Anyone who has looked at the keyway inside the pully and tried to match it up with a mark knows what I'm talking about, not very accurate.

I like the fluid idea, sounds messy though.

89t295k

Here u go...I went out and took a pic.

You have lots of usefull information off the flywheel...use your imagination.

Dont forget the front weight will be exactly opposite of the rear.

Also 125 teeth could be very usefull if you need to calculate how far to turn it to TDC.

89t295k

I really like the rear apex average of the spark plug holes for a fast check but, the holes are not quite evenly spaced.

89t295k

Front Counterweight per mazdatrix site..

Apex944

iTrader: (10)

Not everyone has a stock flywheel though.
I myself am using an ACT streetlight flywheel that is no longer held on by the large flywheel nut, so it can be positioned any way on the rear of the engine.
The counterweight is underneath of it and if I remember correctly is impossible to see now.

89t295k

That's what you get for changing out OEM stuff....

U could use a mirror but, I'd just do the spark plug trix...it will get you pretty close.