95civicEX

hey, I'm new to this board, and don't have a clue about rx-7's, but I've become really interested in the drift scene.

I've currently got a 95 civic that will have a turbo'd h22a in the near future, but with fwd, it's not so easy to get it sideways

so I've been looking into the 2nd gen rx-7's and have found several non running, straight bodied cars for under 500, and was wondering about the different variety of motors available, so far I've only heard of a 13BT and still have no clue what it really is (turbo, non-turbo, psi, hp, torque).

Any input anyone can give would be much appreciated

Flobb

second gen not turbos have 13B
second gen turbos have 13BT
There is also a 20B which was not in any production vehicles in the US.

darkwaveboi

(Correct me if im off about any information, i might have mixed things up or heard wrong info...not everyone is perfect =)

All engines beside 20B are 2 rotor engines. They all fire 2 times for every 1 time the eccentric shaft is turned.

12A - Engine in the earlier models of RX-7 (85 and under, non GSL-SE)

13B - 1.3L non-turbo engine with 6 exhaust ports and 9.7:1 compression ratio. This is the one i have, they came in the 84-85 GSL-SE RX7's and later models. 86-88 motor was slightly different than 89-91. Puts out 160hp and 142lb/ft torque. Very bad low end torque, but a kick will start to happen around 4000rpm, with a bigger kick at 6000rpm. Redlines at 8000rpm

13BT - 1.3L turbo engine with 4 exhaust ports and a 9.0:1 compression ratio. Has 1 cat. instead of 1 + 2 precats. Puts out 200hp and 160lb/ft torque. Stock turbos are pretty small and output 7psi. Intercooler is mounted on top of engine under neith hood scoop for air induction.
Redlines at 7200rpm.

13BET - 1.3L Twin turbo model with 4 exhaust ports. (dont know much about FD (3rd gen rx7) engine specs) Outputs around 267hp and ??lb/ft torque except 15 anniversary editions which had 280hp.

20B - 3 Rotor powerplant. No idea of output/power except that its VERY fast with a LOT of torque. To put this in an FC (2nd gen rx7) the heat shield/fire wall has to be moved back and engine bay customized.

if any info i supplied isnt 'exactly' true, please feel free to correct me. sorry about any mistakes =)

AE Turbo

There are some 1 and 4 rotor engines out there.

The FD engine is called the 13B-REW.

The 13bt Engine in an FC has 2 catalytic converters.

Everything else looks right.

Scott 89t2

13bt puts out 200lbs of torque well in 89-91.

don't bother trying to swap turbo engines to a non turbo, it's not worth it. everything is different. if you want a turbo rx7 buy a turbo rx7.

all 2 rotor engines have 2 exhuast ports. the numbers you have are for intake

ReZ311

iTrader: (4)

hey, don't confuse the poor guy.

If you are gonna get a second gen AKA: FC3S, get a turbo II. Make sure you get an 1989+ motor b/c the rotors are lighter and the turbo is better built. Then we can go fron there.

Any year turbo II is fine (1986-1992) if you are replacing the motor when you get it. Get a JSPEC motor. cheaper and easier, unless you got the money.

If you are not replacing the motor, get an 89+ car.

darkwaveboi

hehe..oops. so the TII has 200lb/ft of torque and 200hp? oops, got my figures mixed up along w/ the exhaust and intake ports...at least i knew the amnt of ports...w/ the FD....i dont know as much becuase i tend to look the other way at them till i have enough money to actually afford one ..oh well, i still have lots to learn about my car

Erik

yup...the 89-91's had 200...the 87-88's had 182 i think...

iluvrx7z

they 86-88s have 186HP

Dan
1987 Turbo II

Evil Aviator

Oh geez, you guys are bombarding the poor newbie! There is no need to review all the intake & exhaust port, compression ratio, and all that other junk at this point. I'll make it simple with 2nd Gen RX-7 101:

First of all, the 2-Generation cars are called "FC" in reference to the beginning characters of their VIN. There are two main types of FC, Series 4 (1986-1988), and Series 5 (1989-1992). Each series is further broken down into turbo and non-turbo cars. The majority of the turbo car parts of a particular Series are interchangeable, and the majority of the non-turbo car parts of a particular Series are interchangeable. The interchangeability between different Series and turbo vs. non-turbo cars is less common. So basically, you should decide if you want a turbo or non-turbo car, decide if you want a Series 4 or 5, and then stick with what you have.

Here are the basic stock engine explanations:
13B - Non-turbo 1.3L 2-rotor engine (aka NT or NA)
13BT - Turbo 1.3L 2-rotor engine (It has a single turbo with a split scroll, which means that it acts very similar to a twin sequential turbo. The car is called a Turbo II because the Turbo I was a 1st Generation RX-7).

The Series 5 engines have more hp and boost, but the Series 4 cars are lighter and usually much less expensive. Here is a link whre you can click on Engines List or Vehicle List to learn more. The information on this site isn't 100% correct, but it will give you the main idea.
http://www.monito.com/wankel/

My recommendation is to find a car that you like, and just go with it. A non-turbo would probably be easier to start with, but a turbo car would faster in either stock vs. stock or maxed vs. maxed engine builds. You should absolutely get a 5-speed transmission, as the auto transmissions are expensive to rebuild and replace (note that a manual transmission does NOT bolt right up to an auto-transmission car body). You may want to try to get a car with the better suspension (5-lug wheels) as opposed to the base suspension (4-lug wheels).

95civicEX

wow.....I didn't know this would really be that different than the honda, but it still sounds like a real good route, thanks for all your help!

The Ace

Do I know you from somewhere 95civicEX ?


i.e "somewhere" A.K.A HondaChat

95civicEX

Alright, a little more time to type now, lets see if I got it right:

the best route to go: 86-88 (turbo or non-turbo <-doesn't sound like this matters) 5 speed with 5 lug wheels.

13BT - japanese spec. Turbo 1.3L 2-rotor engine with 200hp at 200lbs/ft torque

I plan on stripping the entire interior down to bare metal, so interior extras are not really of any significance, and plan on swapping the motor, suspension, wheels, tires etc.

anything I missed?

The Ace: I post on www. super honda .org (just remove the spaces, they block links, so I'm assuming this site does too)

stinkfist

I'm not sure why you say turbo or non turbo doesn't matter. If you go non turbo, highly moded will be pushing maybe 200hp. if you go turbo highly moded can be anywhere from 350hp to 500+hp. It sounds to me that you are planning on moding it so if you want power then go turbo. If you don't need much power than stay N/A to keep price down. And the 89+ have more power stock.

Mike

95civicEX

actually I just meant it sounds like it doesn't matter what the original car comes with if I plan on swapping out the motor.

Snrub

iTrader: (1)

My advice is do lots of research before just buying any old RWD car. If you do you'll most likely come to the conclusion that the 2nd gen RX-7 is pretty well the best way to go within the price range. The N/A doesn't appear very impressive when you only look at the performance numbers, but it has many less obvious qualities. (I started really appreciating the N/A when I bought my TII, about a month ago, due to the things that are common with both). The other thing is that it's probably better to find one that's working properly.

When you say you want to swap the engine, what exactly do you have planned?

stinkfist

If you plan on swaping the motor anyway and you should get a Turbo 2.
you get a stronger gear box, bigger brakes, Better Rear end, And a hood scoop. Even if you go N/A with it you will have a stronger drive train that will take more abuse. But after driving a T2 you probably won't want to go N/A. Not that there is anything wrong with N/A. It's just that it's a differant beast all together.

Mike

95civicEX

I'm looking to build a cheap drift/autocross car, I intend to keep it street legal, but that doesn't mean I plan on leaving in any comfort features...

I want to get a non-running car (after what stinkfist said, it sounds like the tII shell is the best route to go) and put in a japanese spec 13bt motor with a few mild modifications (my civic will be my drag toy and for loads of hp I intend to get a classic to play around with down the road, so big hp isn't real important) I intend to gut the interior, replace the dash with a much lighter aluminum one, roll cage and twin racing seats (one will sit in my garage until the rare occasion that I actually take someone in the car with me) no a/c, no radio etc...

then I plan on upgrading the brakes, suspension, wheels/tires etc....

that's about it, I don't plan on putting my life into this car, I'm figuring a relatively tight budget of 4000 or so for the total project.

Evil Aviator

I'm not sure if a J-spec project is a good idea for a newbie. Anyway, if you go that route, you will need either an aftermarket or J-spec ECU and wiring harness. You should probably use the heavier Turbo II driveline and suspension, although you could use the lighter non-turbo parts if you prefer weight savings over longevity. Note that the turbo and non-turbo drivetrain parts do not interchange. For your use, either Series 4 or 5 would be fine. The Series 4 is lighter, but most people your age seem to prefer the Series 5 rear end lights. The cheapest & lightest way to modify your dash is to gut everything, and zip-tie the stock gauge console to your steering column. Unless anything is worn or broken, there is no reason to upgrade the brakes other than installing race pads.

Here is about what you are looking at for costs:
$500-800 2Gen RX-7 with blown engine
$1200 Used J-Spec engine w/ECU and wiring harness
$400 New clutch
$1000 For all those little things that you didn't plan on
$1700 Mazda Motorsports Stage II suspension package
$1000 SCCA-legal roll cage
$600 Two FIA-approved Momo Rookie racing seats
+ Whatever you want for wheels/tires

I see from your profile that you are MI. Yesterday was officially my last day as a 153DI!

BTW, links are allowed here. Here is one on what to look for when buying a 2Gen:
http://www.aaroncake.net/RX-7/

Node

iTrader: (1)

You know Series 5 (89-92) Turbo IIs are almost as rare as GTUs and 10AE's if you go year by year. No one wants to sell them, and if they do they go for lots of money. You keep searching for a semi-cheap Series 5 while I go find 5 Series 4's and spend that extra money dressing it up.

Get a Series 4 (87-88) Theyre everywhere and can be had for $2500 or around there

Ryde _Or_Die

There are also 4 port 13Bs which is all that I know of the 1st gen GSL-SE, correct me if I am wrong.

Rx-7Addict

iTrader: (2)

2nd gens are fun to drift... very good, predictable feeling. In the dry at least. Somewhat in the wet. Steering is good too. Nice and responsive, tight.

Good luck!