Hi guys i have been doing some reading on your forum the last few days because i have been considering getting a rx7. My civic that i have is basically going to be just for track when its done i dont even think its going to be street legal so i want to have a car for a dd with some go to it. I have friends with sr 240s, dsms and just about everything else but a rx7. I was wondering the difficulty of the turbo motor swap and what they can do with a front mount, exhaust and other basic bolt ons. I was reading in the quarter mile and dyno area that the stock turbo is good for around 12 at the most and that is fine with me. What about the rear end can they hold.

I was looking at osakajdmmotors.com and they sell the 13b turbo for 1000 or something like that cant rember off the top of my head seen it a few days ago.

Im new to rx7s so try not to flame me to ashes lol.

 

Wow a honda civic for the track,and a rx-7 for a daily driver?First let me tell ya how odd that sound to me. I'm gonna be blunt, if ya start your build with a grocery getter,you have an expensive grocery getter.If ya start with a sports car,ya have an expensive sports car....ie perfect 50/50 weight balance and rear wheel drive,not to mention low,low center of gravity.sorry bout that anyway to your question.
Engine swap not real bad,get harness,pcm,and trans together there out there if ya can find them,also turbo drive shaft.ya will have to modify flange to rear carrier.
To get into the 12's on stock turbo will be tough,do able but tough.fuel cut defender,exaust,some sort of fuel controler,bigger injectors,front mount...ect,hybrid turbo would help speed and reliabily,factory turbo gets preaty en efficent at like 10 psi,starts to blow hot air not good,will put out 14-15 but not for long,tends to wear out
Rotarys are cool but there not as forgiving as hondas,there really picky,like most girls out there.sorry on bashing your honda,it's a great car I'm sure

 

if you can find a TII, it will save you the trouble of swapping in a turbo motor. plus the TII's all have the heavy duty parts. if you can find a gxl and swap a turbo motor in that would be as close as you can come to TII performance.

 

i chose a front wheel drive honda to be different from my friends. I have almost 13k invested into in a all motor build. But im not going to get going on it. This isnt the forum for it. Im not going for 12s i think you misunderstood me. I said from what i was reading that the turbo didnt go past 12 with out blowing hot. I would just like high 13s to mid 13s.

 

Nah, I say get a sport model and turbo that if you can't find a TII. It will not only have the 5 lug wheels and 4 piston brakes like the GXL and Turbo but it will also have the HD suspension unlike the GXL. You'll get the sport spoiler, lip, etc. Plus it won't be quite as heavy as a GXL or Turbo.

 

I dd my FC for short commuting and for very long distance travel without trouble. You just have to get one in good shape, as with any car. Ironically, growing up in a Honda family, my older sister got a Civic that turned out to have a bad tranny. A lot of sources recommend having a mechanic inspect a car before you buy (regardless of the model).

You can swap in a TII engine into an N/A, but buying a TII is easier. The FC's real strong point is its handling, btw. Mazda used the lightweight rotary engine to make it as similar to a mid-engine car as possible. The multilink rear suspension (ok, it's modifed long and trailing, but that technically counts), and passive rear wheel steering ("DTSS") don't hurt either. Be sure to look up DTSS in case yours is worn out.

Reliability
FC's, and rotary engines for that matter, are quite reliable except for a few issues:
1. Along with the other standard maintenance items, be sure to use an OEM thermostat (e.g., from a dealer). Nothing from the auto store. Will lead to temp issues otherwise.
2. Various non-critical dash electricals and gauges tend to fail. You can resolder or replace.
3. Fuel pulsation dampener: Fails after ~100k miles and leaks fuel right on to the hot exhaust manifold, starting an engine fire. Inspect it, especially if you smell fuel.
4. The rotary is sensitive to overheating. If the temp gauge is hot, pull over. Regular oil changes are also fairly important. One forum member changed his coolant annually and his oil regularly (every 5k miles/3 months though), and did other basic maintenance. His engine went to 350k miles before an overheat from a blown radiator killed it (thank GM Dexcool). The typical, i.e. partially neglected, engine goes to ~170k miles.
5. Turbo cars are always less reliable than N/As, whether piston or rotary; that's why Honda avoids them.
6. The car is 20 years old.

Power
'86-'88 N/A: 146HP, ~170HP with a full exhaust
'86-'88 TII: 185HP?, ~235HP with a full exhaust
'89-'92 N/A: 160HP, ~185HP with a full exhaust
'89-'92 TII: 200HP, ~250HP with a full exhaust
You can get a few more HP with a cold air intake, etc., etc., but the exhaust is the bulk of it. In a TII you can get significantly more power with an intercooler, more boost, tuning, etc, etc. A bare S4 N/A has a curb weight of 2626lbs., but luxury features, turbo, the convertable, etc. add to that. Exhaust backpressure opens the 5/6th ports in the S4 N/A, which (to oversimplify) is similar to VTEC. You'll lose as much power as you gain from the exhaust if you don't find another way to open them (search these forums). The TII doesn't have them and the S5 N/A uses the air pump instead of exhaust backpressure.

Extreme N/A's get around 200wHP (230bHP?). I think the highest (probably unreliable) 13B is 300wHP.
Extreme TII's often reach 500-600HP. Crazier ones go higher, just like a boosted piston engine.

buyer's guide (the one I used): http://www.rx7.voodoobox.net/infofaq/bguide/bguide.html
general info, including another buyer's guide: www.aaroncake.net
Other info: Try this forum's faq and search tool. It gets new owner questions daily, not to mention most anything else you'd want to know.

 

thanks ericgrau did me some good. I just need to find a good car. There is a few in my area one i know of for sure that he will sell but like i said i dont know about rotary engines but that thing smokes like nothing i have ever seen. I not 100% sure on the model but i know for sure its not turboed. What are the times like with the turbo motor swapped with some exhaust to allow it to breath and a stock turbo along with some other things like fuel pump ect.

 

where do you get these numbers from? 50hp gain from an exhaust? Sounds a bit outlandish...

 

Dude sorry for jumping in on the post, but I just read in your post about the 5th and 6th Ports. I do not have a catalitic converter. and my air pump has been removed and I recently noticed that the ports are not opening how can I get them to open(alternate ways ) I dont expect too much time on this subject but if you could point me in the right direction I will be happy.

 

Mmm. As you'll see from the buyer's guide, stay away from a smoking rotary. It probably has bad seals and needs a rebuild. But hey, if you're really ready to swap in a new engine... I'd just make sure the tranny and what not were still good first.
The S4 N/A has a 0-60 of about 8 seconds, depending on the weight (as low as 7.6s, I think)
The TII's 0-60 is in the 6's.
I don't remember the quarter mile times but I think they range from 15 or 16's to 14's for the S5 TII. N/A rotaries are weaker in the low end so up top they can beat other cars with similar 0-60s.
It outhandles some '86 Porsche too. The 80's were a bad time for Porsches, though. The N/A performs about as well as a Civic Si or BMW 3 series in speed and handling.

 

I'm sure a search will have a ton of info on this. I don't remember off the top of my head, but there are alternate ways to open them. You're probably looking at a ~$100 electronic rpm-sensing actuator, since you don't have your air pump.

 

From these forums. Some members were also in disbelief like you, but other people confirmed it. They said that the TII exhaust is pretty restrictive. Plus I think (not sure) the boost goes up a little when you put on a new exhaust. Specifically it was the Racing Beat exhaust and it may have been something like 55HP. Btw, modern cars have much less restrictive exhausts. On an RX-8 you can only gain ~5-8HP from a FULL exhaust. Some lousy brands will even make you lose power.

 

thanx a lot dude Im gonna start my search right now

 

so it should be at least mid 14s with the motor swapped and the exhaust work with a front mount. Whats the gearing differneces like between the na and the turbo

 

I'm unsure about the 1/4 mile times. You may want to look those up yourself. But yeah, probably 14s or better unless I'm confused. I don't know anything about the gearing, but you can search these forums. I do know that besides the motor you'll have to swap in a TII tranny and much of the drivetrain. There's also some wiring issues, etc.

I also forgot to mention that rotaries are also extra knock sensitive. N/A rotaries don't knock since they are tuned quite rich from the factory, but as you get more power out of a TII you'll want to look into a knock sensor and air/fuel management to keep it running rich. Same goes for pistons, but with rotaries you'll want to be a little more conservative because one good strong knock can blow a rotary.

s4 is '86-'88, s5 is '89-'92, btw. s4's & s5's are FC's, a.k.a. 2nd gens.

 

Yeah like I said I'm sure your cars great,not being a dick either.Lots of my friends have real quick hondas,there like tanks ya can't kill em.ya should have no problem getting into the low 13's with front mount more gas less restrictions the basics and some sticky rears tires go at least 225 60r15's lowprofiles look good but have no place at the strip.If your a good driver and your 60' times are good you can turn a quick quarter in a stock TII like at least 14.7 stock

 

allright guys thanks im going to do some more research here and learn some more about the rotary motors and then see from there thanks guys.