TwEaK

iTrader: (6)

hey guys if you search youll see my previous post about the update on my car well today i finally finished everything motor is in wired up coolant is in the motor fresh oil all aftermarket guages are installed now oviously there is up's and downs to any rotary...

well i went to turn the motor on last night i had done everything to turn it on but didnt have water in the motor so i just wanted to see quickly if i would start well i got in the drivers seat and shure enoug after about 4 or 5 cranks sputtered a lil but started i let it run for about 45 seconds and killed it didnt want anything to happen to my fresh rebuild so i spent all of today finished everything u p connecting all of the water lines putting coolant in and finishing up with the tranny... well i went to turn it on and nothing doesnt want to start or even try to start..... i have a fuel kill switch so its not like it really be flooding but for the hell of it i took out all 4 spark plugs (brand new all of em) cleaned em up a little and turned the motor over i had 3 very strong pulses on each rotor so i was happy with compression i put the spark plugs back in and still nothing motor turns over and everything but doesnt want to start... i was told that some fresh rebuilds do lack some compression to start so i was told to pull start so tmw ill be pulling it all around the block... but i just want to know what you guys think...by the way i did check fuel, spark,compresion i have all 3 but i do think i just dont have enough to start the motor ..... lets see neways again want to know what you guys think..
Thanks
TweaK

iceblue

Pull starting tends to frighten me. Leave it as a last resort. Have you put an oz of motor oil in the plug holes?

Here is the list of things to prevent a motor from turning over.
Compression
Fuel
Spark/timing

That’s it. If you have these then look at minor stuff that is easily over looked.

myexlex

wus up luis, why didnt you tell me you were finishing your car? I woulda came over to help. Does it sound like it wants to start? or does it just sound like its turning over.

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

Tweak - I've used pull starting, but only when my motor was SEVERLY flooded.. if I were you, I'd try putting 10W30 directly in through the spark plug ports, first, turning over by hand a few times, then putting the spark plugs back in. That may give you just enough compression to start, and its a fair bit less work than pull starting

If you're sure its not flooded, StaticGuitar is on to something, I think. It'd be easier to grab a friend or two and try push-starting it, and a lot less potential for scoffing up/cracking your front bumper

If all else fails, pull starting is definatly a valid solution. Just be careful to use a long tow-strap, and let the vehicle ahead of you know that you're planning on stopping both of your vehicles (Its always best if the towed car can do most of the braking). I've *cough*bumped*cough* the car ahead of me before, because my brakes weren't completely bled (I thought they were).

Oh yeah, check your brakes, too!

Keep us posted.

myexlex

push starting the car takes 2 secs. Whats so hard about it?

TwEaK

iTrader: (6)

well actually i have 0 brakes =/ ill have to stop using the e brake to stop i put oil in the motor when i had the upper intake off and nothing doesnt even try to start it sits there and spings freely but again when i did take out the spark plugs the pulses of air coming from the motor where nice and strong...
TwEaK

TwEaK

iTrader: (6)

well just finished pulling the car around the block trying to pull start it and no luck my friend who built the motor says it must be flooding so i yet still have to see any ideas guys???? need some kind of motivation man im lost here...
TweaK

myexlex

Are you getting spark??? if you are getting spark and fuel, then the motor should start, especially push starting it. Sounds like either, your computer is not on(bad ground) or fp is not running.. Even if the timing is off, you should atleast get some reaction from the motor..

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

I agree, with Myexlex. You're missing some basic component. If it had fuel and spark, it would have ran from pull starting. Even if your timing was WAY out, it would have ran.. It would not be flooded, unless you're grounding out a fuel injector wire, causing it to be constantly on. Of course, it still would have ran from pull starting this way.

Here's what I'd do, in order:

1) Test the fuel pump. Not just say "Hey, it looks like the plugs are wet", although that's important. Jumper the fuel pump test connection, it's the yellow connection in a black rubber jacket, up by the passanger shock tower, underneath the Idle Mix Control. When the car is turned On, you should be able to jumper that and hear the fuel pump pushing fuel through the lines, while you're standing in front of the car. If you can't, then something is wrong, and this looks like a good place to start. If it is working, leave it jumpered and try to start your car. If it runs, it means that your AFM is bad. There's a switch in there to turn it on. Check the FSM for how to check that.

2) Spark/Restab the timing. take all 4 plugs out, as well as the CAS. set the plugs on something grounded (I set them on my throttlebody, but wherever), plug them into the cas, turn the car on. Spin the gear on the CAS and make sure all of them spark. two plugs will fire opposite, and two will fire at the same time. Assuming that all 4 plugs spark, you're ignition system is set up properly. now's a great time to restab the timing. Grab a belt and rotate the engine so that the yellow mark on the main pulley is right underneath the timing mark (the pin sticking out of the front cover). rotate the gear on the CAS so the divit on the gear is aligned with the extruded "line" on the CAS body. Make sure you slide the CAS back in straight, and your timing should be good to go. Test the car, hopefully it starts right up!

3) If not, you're definatly lacking ground to some major system, and the only thing I know of major enough to prevent the car from starting at this point is the ECU. nothing else that I can think of is left to run the car. Hailers would be the one to help you in this deptartment.

Go out and check these, and let us know what happens Good luck!

TwEaK

iTrader: (6)

stabbing the timing i did already ddub gave me a step by step on how to do it... so thats done i checked spark today because i mean cmon my friend joking around tryed to start it while i had a spark plug wire in my hand and yea took a **** in my pants and all he could do was laugh =) but i dont understand tell you the truth something tells im not getting fuel when i had the upper intake off and took one of the lines off (pressure line) it shot out gas at me ... neway to find out if the injectors are opening???and one of my secondary injector connectors broke and i had to redo the connector on that one but even if the connectors on the secondarys were messed up the primarys alone should start the car correct???
THanks
TwEaK

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

yeah, those coils give off one HELLUVA shock... I know, too Its good that you stabbed the CAS already.. rules one thing out

there is no easy way to know whether your primaries are opening or not.. In theory, if you have a long screwdriver, you can touch the injector with the screwdriver and feel it click on and off. The secondaries won't fire at all, until you get your RPMs above 36 or 3800 or so. If you already have your intake manifold off, you could always just unplug the connector to one of the two primary injectors, hook up a test light and crank it a few times to see if its opening them.

Of course, the you'll need your upper fuel rail connected, and you can check your fuel pump at the same time, then..

myexlex

besst thing to do, is pull your UIM off and grab your cas and turn it. you should hear the injectors click. ITs pretty loud. Also if the fuel pump is runinng you would hear the fuel flowing through the lines, its also pretty loud. Imma take my car to the shop and on my way Ill pass by your house to check it out.

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

Good idea bout grabbing the CAS.. I forgot about that way to do it!

TwEaK

iTrader: (6)

well i have a walbro and yea ive heard that pump on before and now for some reason i cant hear it ill have to take a look at it today and check it out any other ideas im gonna right now what im gonna do is
put some ATF down the spark plugs
take out the spark plugs and clean em
put em back on
disconnect the fuel line from the fuel filter and see if it at least pumps out fuel....

i dont understand what you mean with the CAS about turning it ??? if i turn it by hand it will turn the injectors on??
TwEaK

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

don't bother with ATF. just put in straight 10W-30. the only reason to use ATF is some people thing it dissolves carbon. I can garuntee on your new/rebuilt engine, there's not a carbon problem

you really don't have to disconnect the fuel line from the fuel filter, either.. you will be able to hear it if you jumper that test connection.

When you take your CAS out, if you leave it connected, and turn the car to on, then spin the gear at the bottom by hand, you'll hear your spark plugs fire as well as the fuel injectors "click" open and close. you can do that to make sure that your fuel injectors are firing.

bigturbo

i say try what wonkothesane says

Sith_Lord

Try the ground cable that goes from the firewall to the tranny bellhousing. This was broke on mine once and the car would spin over but never crank. I was able to pop the clutch to crank it though. Anyway replaced the ground cable and it worked fine....

TwEaK

iTrader: (6)

ill give you guys an update tmw when i get off work what happens lets see hopefully everything works out =/
TwEAK

TwEaK

iTrader: (6)

wellk i got fuel and spark i did a compression test i got 82 compression in the front rotor and 90 in the rear rotor =/ i check the fuel lines after getting fuel in my eyes and burning for about an hour i do have fuel coming in i also checked spark and well now im just lost any ideas??? i dont see a ground cable from the fire walla to the tranny i looked but couldnt find anything..
TweaK

iceblue

Here is the firewall ground. The other ground is part of the harness and bolts to the rear rotor housing.

TwEaK

iTrader: (6)

i dont have the ground you really think thats holding it back from starting????
TwEaK

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

Its a distinct possibility. Everything that uses the engine as a ground relies on that ground strap. I added an additional one with some 8 Ga amp wire I had laying around. It connects to a bolt underneath the throttlebody. I put my reinforcement one on the bolt that holds the fork with the two bolt holes (that is there to hold up the throttlebody, with the two bolts pointing towards drivers side engine bay).

I never tried to start my car without it. . Of course, I couldn't do an accurate test now, as I have an aftermarket ECU.

Did you happen to verify whether your injectors were clicking open or not? you may have messed up the connection to the power block for your injectors..

Oh, and I hate to sound obvious, but, have you checked ALL of your fuses to see if any are blown? That was preventing me from starting one time it was the 30Amp main fuse, it had a hairline crack in it.. I almost didn't see it.

TwEaK

iTrader: (6)

lol unless mine has a hairline crack also i look at em and nothing still i didnt check the fuses in the interior even tho i know i must of blown one because i have 0 interior lights now....

TwEaK

iTrader: (6)

i havent checked the injectors yet but one of my friends says i could just be flooding the **** out of it hell be here in about 30min and were gonna take a look at it....
TwEaK

myexlex

luis, if you push start the car, no matter how flooded, it will start, or atleast attempt. If you get a reaction from the motor and it doesnt start or starts and pops and stumbles and ****, it could either be the timing set wrong, or the injectors are leaking fuel.