thecause17

Ok, a while back in general rotory tech forum, I posted up about the possibility of a new mod for us to use on our 7's. This includes all generations at this time, as I've posted this in all 3 gen specific forums. Those of you who have read my first post on this, this will be an update. As for the rest of you, listen up.

I'm teaming up with Outlaw Engineering in the hopes of have phenolic spacers produced for our cars. If you don't know what these are, I'm not surprised, currently, they're only made for 3 different engines, two mazda and one Honda. What are these you ask?

These are a replacement for your current intake manifold and throttle body gaskets. These gaskets are thicker, 1/4" is the thickness they use at Outlaw Engineering. What do they do you ask?

The Phenolic material is a heat resistant material, and when used as a gasket, prevents heat from getting from the engine to the intake manifold. What does this mean? Cooler intake temps. What does that mean? More horsepower for you.

More technical info can be found here:

http://www.outlawengineering.com/techframe.html

This is my latest e-mail from outlaw engineering.

"Aaron,
You are correct on that we do not currently offer an application for any generation of RX-7, but this is one of the applications that we have been considering. We generally request 20 firm commitments prior to the design, prototyping, and production of a new performance part. Pricing for a set, including intake manifold and throttle body insulators along with necessary hardware such as lengthened studs would be in the $100 range.
To prototype a new set, we generally prefer to have acces to a full vehicle. This will allow us to investigate fit-up issues and to do a before and after dyno test to asses performance increase. We are located in Indianapolis, so if there are any interested parties in the central Indiana area that would be interested in having their vehicle used as a test bed, please step up. This would include a short session to evaluate the vehicle and take measurement data, followed by another session a short time later to install and evaluate the prototype set. This, of course, would be done free of charge.
Many years ago, I owned a 1st gen RX-7. I had great fun in this car and was impressed with the level of engineering thought that went into it and the rev of the little rotary. Years later when the 2nd gen Probe came out, one of the deciding factors for me were memories of my Rex and the Probe's Mazda heritage and design. I wasn't disappointed. Please asses the interest for your group and let us know.

Best regards,
Sean Morgan
Outlaw Engineering"

What this means is, I need support for this. Not only support, but if you want to see these made for your gen car or 1st gen case, your specific engine, then I will need someone with each one of these cars to step up to the plate and get this testing done with Outlaw Engineering. Specifically someone within good driving distance of their location. This could be a great mod for our cars, and if you would like to become part of the process, then you need to do this. Read the tech section, does 7whp and 11wtq for about $100 sound good? If so, then show your support. Like the e-mail says, we need 20 firm committments, and one car per engine for testing/design.

eljefe62

I would be intersted at some point, but right now cannot COMMIT to anything

autocrash

interesting, but I would think there are other options that wouldn't neccesitate the lengthened studs. a smaller gasket would have a similar effect at a lower overall price. (but then, I'm cheap.... and broke )

my $0.01

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

Don't sound like it'd net a very big increase

rx-7s rock

sounds good to me, too bad I'm pretty far from Indianapolis.

Barwick

For some reason I doubt it'd get you 7 rear wheel horsepower, unless some goofy port matching was done.

HOWEVER.. for race cars (SCCA), "gaskets" are fully open. Unless they specifically outlaw it, making a phoeaedxnicszzzcds spacer for the engines, and making them port matched, there would probably be some interest, as long as the "spacer" is one piece (so it can be considered a "gasket")

JDMkamikazeeRX

That does sound nice. Hopefully someone can do this, however I think it will be hard to find 20 people. Do you have certin amount of time to get 20 people?

Barwick

I'm always up for experimentation though.. one thing they might want to consider is finding some way to do the same thing for turbos (shield between the exahust and intake side), THAT would be cool.

thecause17

What port matching is there to do? This is the same thing as a regular gasket, just thicker and of different material. It is one piece, just like a regular gasket.....

And as far as the 7whp, they have dyno plots on their site, and being on the Probe/MX-6 community for 3 years, I've seen plenty of testimonials to these....

Liquid Anarchy

iTrader: (2)

Just so you know, I'm planning to do the same thing, without any financial support, using phelonics, *hopefully* dyno-proven, and ¼" thicker than his products, for less than the $100 range.

I've also already talked to the same guy @ outlaw engineering (followed the link from autospeed.com didn't you?) and wasn't very hapy with his response.

Having access to phelonic plastics and a CNC mill is such a cool thing.

I have no problem making them for N/A cars (N/A FC's already planned and toolpathed) but there comes a problem with Turbo applications of possible leaks under boost. I'll probably just stick to N/A's, and if a TII guy wants one bad enough, then I'll very seriously consider it.

thecause17

Actually, no. Like I said, I've owned a car that they already make them for, and have seen plenty of tesimonials(not from their site) on how well they work.

BDoty311

Its not a bad idea, but $100 is pretty steep, especially for the n/a crowd. It would definately keep your manifold cooler though, its no maybe. For every 10*F, you get roughly 1% increase in HP, which can add up. This is for N/a engines BTW, for turbos it is even more of an increase.

Liquid Anarchy

iTrader: (2)

With turbo's, the intake charge itself would heat the intake manifold.

The best use for this, as far as I can see it, is for people (like myself) shooting for fast N/A times. W/ a heat isolating spacer, you can cool your UIM a LOT more, resulting in a cooler intake charge = more HP. A cool intake is very important for me.. that's why my car is getting treated w/ a true CAI, Heat Isolating Intake Spacer, and of corse, a dry-ice cool-can.

I haven't looked into the TII end of it too much, because I think it's pretty useless, as the intake charge itself carries heat.

Liquid Anarchy

iTrader: (2)

BTW; it is good to see so many people intrested in this mod... hopefully it will be worth everyones time, including my own.

AreExSeven

More importantly than a gasket that adds HP, I need a gasket that is continuously reusable.

Can you get them to make some of those?

Liquid Anarchy

iTrader: (2)

Actually... you *should* be able to use the spacer over and over. And you don't use a gasket w/ the spacer... but some copper gasket sealer should help.

BDoty311

Liquid if you make one, Id be glad to run down and buy one from you and check out your car. Do you have your cool-can hooked up yet? Id be interested in seeing some pics of that.

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

By no means am I against this. Keep in mind that while there is the crowd on here that doesn't mind losing their working 6 ports there are also people who are very adamant about keeping them working. 1/4" spacer between the lower manifold and the engine is going to leave the actuator rods too short. You'll need to address this as well. If you want to take this one step farther then why don't you have your entire manifold ceramic coated as well? The less heat from anywhere radiant or otherwise the better.

Liquid Anarchy

iTrader: (2)

Putting the spacer between the UIM and LIM... gotta keep those working 5/6th ports

BDoty311

Damn autoXers. HeHe...

Liquid Anarchy

iTrader: (2)

Actually, I want to keep mine to keep the Aux Port I'm going to do somewhat hidden at idle....

...don't underestimate the sneakyness...

BDoty311

Can you elaborate on what you are planning please. Im not sure I know what you are talking about.

thecause17

Exactly.

And phenos are reusable.

projekt

so instead of 'cooling' all your intake you're only cooling half of it? i was on the mx6 probe boards for a while too and from what i remember, phenolic spacers are snake oil at best.

thecause17

Then you're memory isn't very good, or you're making it up.

http://www.probetalk.com/forums/show...did=1700959840


http://www.probetalk.com/forums/show...threadid=51628

There's a ton of these topics there, and I really couldn't find a negative comment. So I don't know where you get your "snake oil" but all I can say is, nobody would be making you buy one. :shrug: