New Car Research
11-13-02, 05:27 PM
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New Car Research
Hi im new to this forum. Right now i own a 1986.5 Toyota Supra. Well its not turbo, and i dont want a turbo one because of the BHG and im bored of it already. Im only 16 in Highschool, and 3 things matter to me: speed, money, and girls (in that order). So im looking into a large variety of new sport cars. Ive looked at 240sxs, 300zxs, 3000GTs, Eclipses, MR2s, etc. Well now im looking at the RX-7. I like it because it pretty cheap and fast, compared to the rest. What i want to know is what should i expect if i get this car. What problems will arise, such as bad gaskets or what. Ive heard that they are bad, but how so? I live down south, and not too many people know much about rotaries, meaing i dont get much help. They seem relatively cheap to build up, and can still handle well. Just give me some insight on what to expect. I love spanking Civics, accords, etc with mufflers with my supra. But i cant keep up with the real racers with 300zxs, Supra TTs, 5.0 Stangs, Trans-Ams, and Vettes. Im not the person with alot of money like my friends, but i still want to hang with them. Thanks alot
11-13-02, 09:13 PM
#2
knowledge junkie
Well I live in Atlanta and plenty of people know about rotaries 
Rx-7s are purists sports cars, and offer cream in your pants fun. The Turbo II has a SERIOUS dose of torque and will beat stock 5.0s. These are TRACK cars, whereas most other cars are just "muscle cars" (ie sucky handling, big engine). These cars are made for curvey roads as well as the dragstrip.
Like any car, problems come when you improperly modify the car. Lots of rx-7s are pushing 250-450 HP all day long, but they were build well.
You can squeeze ~35% more power out of the OEM Turbo setup pretty easily. The drivetrain can handle 350-450HP easily as well.
Yep, that's why everyone loves rx-7s. They're cheap to buy, easy to modify, easy to rebuild, and (most importantly) there's a HUGE international following on the street, in the racing circuits, and on the dragstrip. That means there's LOTS of aftermarket boltons, accessories, bodykits, etc.. etc..
If you want a real sports car, you've come to the right place. Rx-7s have been growing in popularity tremendously in the last few years. Especially with the RX-8 and 4th gen rx-7 being developed, plus all the SCCA & other racing circuits.
Best advice, check out your state's local rx7 club and talk to the owners.
Here's a welcome package that has a bit more info. Feel free to ask more questions
Rx-7s are purists sports cars, and offer cream in your pants fun. The Turbo II has a SERIOUS dose of torque and will beat stock 5.0s. These are TRACK cars, whereas most other cars are just "muscle cars" (ie sucky handling, big engine). These cars are made for curvey roads as well as the dragstrip.
Like any car, problems come when you improperly modify the car. Lots of rx-7s are pushing 250-450 HP all day long, but they were build well.
You can squeeze ~35% more power out of the OEM Turbo setup pretty easily. The drivetrain can handle 350-450HP easily as well.
Yep, that's why everyone loves rx-7s. They're cheap to buy, easy to modify, easy to rebuild, and (most importantly) there's a HUGE international following on the street, in the racing circuits, and on the dragstrip. That means there's LOTS of aftermarket boltons, accessories, bodykits, etc.. etc..
If you want a real sports car, you've come to the right place. Rx-7s have been growing in popularity tremendously in the last few years. Especially with the RX-8 and 4th gen rx-7 being developed, plus all the SCCA & other racing circuits.
Best advice, check out your state's local rx7 club and talk to the owners.
Here's a welcome package that has a bit more info. Feel free to ask more questions
Last edited by vaughnc; 11-13-02 at 09:21 PM.
11-13-02, 09:14 PM
#3
knowledge junkie
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey welcome to rx7club.com.
The best thing about rx-7s is they're 100% designed as TRUE uncompromising sports cars - not a "sports coupe" or "sports sedan."
The Turbo II model is a SUPERCAR and is the tuners DREAM CAR. Mazda designed the car's drivetrain with 450HP in mind but detuned to 200bhp. What that means is you can GO NUTS building an inexpensive Porsche killer. And unlike the American entry level "sports cars," the Turbo II is designed as a track car with MUCH better handling.
The rotary engine is PERFECT for a sports car and Mazda designed the rx-7 to take 130% advantage of it.
High RPMS, wide & tall powerbands, near unlimited revving, lightweight engine, perfect 50/50 balancing, and low drag, are just some of the advantages the rotary engine provides.
Handling is the BEST part of the rotary experience. The chassis has rear steer found on some Porsches, so you can kick some serious butt around the corners. The car handles & drives so well - it inspires you to push the car beyond what you think it's capable of
Best of all, the rx-7s have an international following from tuners, manufacturers, enthusiast, and Mazda. That means you have a wide selection of performance upgrades, engine upgrades, accessories, bodykits, coffeytable books, toy models, gas powered rotary R/C cars, and knowledgeable people.
The RX-7 community is really that large
a few pictures:
Hey welcome to rx7club.com.
The best thing about rx-7s is they're 100% designed as TRUE uncompromising sports cars - not a "sports coupe" or "sports sedan."
The Turbo II model is a SUPERCAR and is the tuners DREAM CAR. Mazda designed the car's drivetrain with 450HP in mind but detuned to 200bhp. What that means is you can GO NUTS building an inexpensive Porsche killer. And unlike the American entry level "sports cars," the Turbo II is designed as a track car with MUCH better handling.
The rotary engine is PERFECT for a sports car and Mazda designed the rx-7 to take 130% advantage of it.
High RPMS, wide & tall powerbands, near unlimited revving, lightweight engine, perfect 50/50 balancing, and low drag, are just some of the advantages the rotary engine provides.
Handling is the BEST part of the rotary experience. The chassis has rear steer found on some Porsches, so you can kick some serious butt around the corners. The car handles & drives so well - it inspires you to push the car beyond what you think it's capable of
Best of all, the rx-7s have an international following from tuners, manufacturers, enthusiast, and Mazda. That means you have a wide selection of performance upgrades, engine upgrades, accessories, bodykits, coffeytable books, toy models, gas powered rotary R/C cars, and knowledgeable people.
The RX-7 community is really that large
a few pictures:
11-14-02, 02:12 PM
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Thanks a whole lot! That was alot better feedback than at the supra forums. You gave me alot of "good" info about the RX7 and rotaries in general, but whats bad about the car? Hows the oversteer/understeer. I prefer oversteer, but controlable oversteer. You say it has alot of torque, but the spec sheets dont say too much. Or is that torque to weight, with the car being so light? If i was to buy a TII Rx7, it would have about 100,000+ miles on for sure. Is swapping a TII engine easy, better yet, is finding a low mileage TII engine easy?
11-14-02, 02:38 PM
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Ha...you think that was the end of the welcome, wait til everyone else replies 
. As far as the torque rating that you'd inquired about, the number might seem low number wise, BUT the torque curve is so flat you could perform a surgery on it! That's what really matters, ratings only tell you what happens at a certain rpm, that's why lots of people are driving "slow" cars with higher horsepower numbers. When it comes to acceleration torque is what matters (an F1 car literally doesn't have much torque at all, but they also have no weight which is why they're so damn fast). On to the handling that you asked about, you can definately make this car show it's *** around a corner which is why it's such a flexible car (excellent at drifting or road racing). It starts with a very slight touch of understeer which is a good thing because you know where the limit is and you can rotate it when you want to instead of the rear getting a mind of it's own. It's much easier finding an N/A car (although still not "easy") because nobody wants to get rid of their car (I know a lady who CAN'T drive her car due to medical reasons and she still won't sell me her '91 N/A with 49k ORIGINAL MILES...she just painted the car at the Mazda dealer and put on a new exhaust...that's how much people love these cars). It's still possible to find a great deal though (there's a few TII's on eBay right now as a matter of fact). These cars are just incredible and to me have the best driving experience this side of a Ferrari (and yes I'm not talking $hit I've driven both). Hope you enjoy the car (whether or not you get a 7), but I hope you join the "dark side" of the engine world .
Here's some links if you want to see what's available...
RX7.COM
http://www.rx7.com
MazdaTrix
http://www.mazdatrix.com
Racing Beat
http://www.racingbeat.com
RX7 Store
http://www.rx7store.net
RXECRET 7
http://www.rxecret7.com/rx78691fc3s.html
. As far as the torque rating that you'd inquired about, the number might seem low number wise, BUT the torque curve is so flat you could perform a surgery on it! That's what really matters, ratings only tell you what happens at a certain rpm, that's why lots of people are driving "slow" cars with higher horsepower numbers. When it comes to acceleration torque is what matters (an F1 car literally doesn't have much torque at all, but they also have no weight which is why they're so damn fast). On to the handling that you asked about, you can definately make this car show it's *** around a corner which is why it's such a flexible car (excellent at drifting or road racing). It starts with a very slight touch of understeer which is a good thing because you know where the limit is and you can rotate it when you want to instead of the rear getting a mind of it's own. It's much easier finding an N/A car (although still not "easy") because nobody wants to get rid of their car (I know a lady who CAN'T drive her car due to medical reasons and she still won't sell me her '91 N/A with 49k ORIGINAL MILES...she just painted the car at the Mazda dealer and put on a new exhaust...that's how much people love these cars). It's still possible to find a great deal though (there's a few TII's on eBay right now as a matter of fact). These cars are just incredible and to me have the best driving experience this side of a Ferrari (and yes I'm not talking $hit I've driven both). Hope you enjoy the car (whether or not you get a 7), but I hope you join the "dark side" of the engine world .Here's some links if you want to see what's available...
RX7.COM
http://www.rx7.com
MazdaTrix
http://www.mazdatrix.com
Racing Beat
http://www.racingbeat.com
RX7 Store
http://www.rx7store.net
RXECRET 7
http://www.rxecret7.com/rx78691fc3s.html
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11-14-02, 02:40 PM
#8
knowledge junkie
A low engine mileage TII is what you want. Most people buy them dirt cheap & rebuild the engine or pay a slight premium for a recent rebuild. Quite a few companies provide rebuilt, j-spec, or rebuild kits in the US, so your set. Also the 3 rotor upgrade is available, but to be cost efective you'll need to detune it until you can build the motor up right for 500+ HP.
Things that can go wrong. In general a stock TII won't have any major problems. Most everything that can go wrong is a do it yourself fix and is well documented. Examples include a 3800 rpm hesitation which results from dirty secondary injectors or grounding problems not allowing the ECU to control the injectors. That's well documented & plenty of writeups on fixing it. Wipers don't work on high - well documented & DIY fix.
The older ECUs sometimes need sauder joints to be re-saudered/touched up. Otherwise you get your accessories not working correctly.
People who improperly modify the turbo setup, ie they fool the OEM computer into making more boost but not providing enough fuel. That's where you run into problems of blowing engines. Those who put a fuel controller or (better yet) an Engine mangament system like a haltech or motech see good results without killing engine life. If you build the fuel delivery & boost setup right, you'll be very pleased with the results.
I'm pushing 225HP and 220ft-lbs of torque on my 1991 Turbo II - all on the OEM setup with aftermarket exhaust. If I upgraded the turbo compressor wheel, went with a Front Mount Intercooler bolt on, and added fuel mangement & injector upgrades I could be pushing 300HP right now.
Low Weight to power and good aerodynamics is why these cars are so fast.
Steering is very neutral (50/50 balance), LSD differential, and throttle responce is controllable enough you'll take curves perfectly. Of course stomping the gas in a tight corner will break out the rear end on any car
Around 350 HP is where you need WIDE sticky tires to put all of your power to the ground. Again the OEM drivetrain can hanlde a HUGE amount of torque.
100K miles, of course you'll need to replace shocks, struts, bushings, etc.. You can keep the rear steer or eliminate it. I prefer it but some people don't like the feel when it kicks in.
Any more questions??
Oh yeah, lots of sway bar upgrades, strut bars (front & rear), bolt on roll cages, etc.. etc..
Also writeups on what people think about the above. I've just added coilovers, strut tower bars, and a high flow air filter (not cone).
Things that can go wrong. In general a stock TII won't have any major problems. Most everything that can go wrong is a do it yourself fix and is well documented. Examples include a 3800 rpm hesitation which results from dirty secondary injectors or grounding problems not allowing the ECU to control the injectors. That's well documented & plenty of writeups on fixing it. Wipers don't work on high - well documented & DIY fix.
The older ECUs sometimes need sauder joints to be re-saudered/touched up. Otherwise you get your accessories not working correctly.
People who improperly modify the turbo setup, ie they fool the OEM computer into making more boost but not providing enough fuel. That's where you run into problems of blowing engines. Those who put a fuel controller or (better yet) an Engine mangament system like a haltech or motech see good results without killing engine life. If you build the fuel delivery & boost setup right, you'll be very pleased with the results.
I'm pushing 225HP and 220ft-lbs of torque on my 1991 Turbo II - all on the OEM setup with aftermarket exhaust. If I upgraded the turbo compressor wheel, went with a Front Mount Intercooler bolt on, and added fuel mangement & injector upgrades I could be pushing 300HP right now.
Low Weight to power and good aerodynamics is why these cars are so fast.
Steering is very neutral (50/50 balance), LSD differential, and throttle responce is controllable enough you'll take curves perfectly. Of course stomping the gas in a tight corner will break out the rear end on any car
Around 350 HP is where you need WIDE sticky tires to put all of your power to the ground. Again the OEM drivetrain can hanlde a HUGE amount of torque.
100K miles, of course you'll need to replace shocks, struts, bushings, etc.. You can keep the rear steer or eliminate it. I prefer it but some people don't like the feel when it kicks in.
Any more questions??
Oh yeah, lots of sway bar upgrades, strut bars (front & rear), bolt on roll cages, etc.. etc..
Also writeups on what people think about the above. I've just added coilovers, strut tower bars, and a high flow air filter (not cone).
Last edited by vaughnc; 11-14-02 at 02:47 PM.
11-14-02, 03:04 PM
#9
knowledge junkie
As far as engine rebuilds, those should be performed every 140-160K miles at stock HP levels. That entails apex seal replacement, checking tolerances, oil seals, and general things that get worn. Of course as your HP increases, you should shorten the rebuild period. As an example, the 7.4 sec alchochol dragsters run 1 season of drags before a rebuild (piston dragsters rebuild every race). Mazda's forumla series cars rebuilds their rotary engines every 3 seasons. That will give you some idea of what an abused rotary engine can take. For a 350-450HP version that's just street driven, you can go years before needing a rebuild assuming the car is built correctly to start with.
If you management system is setup correctly, the rebuild was done right (ie within tolerances), you've strenghtend the internals based on your target HP, you should be very happy
If you management system is setup correctly, the rebuild was done right (ie within tolerances), you've strenghtend the internals based on your target HP, you should be very happy
Last edited by vaughnc; 11-14-02 at 03:06 PM.
11-15-02, 08:03 AM
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If you think that's crazy...the top fuel guys rebuild them EVERY RUN! The average life span of a top fuel dragsters engine is 8 seconds!!!!! But they can rebuild them in 45 minutes!
11-15-02, 10:06 AM
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yes yes.. welcome..
BUT.. you're 16 years old. You don't want to hear this but listen to me anyhow. Learn to drive a car (yes I know you "know how to drive already" but learn to drive a car CORRECTLY).. it's not something that happens over the course of a few months. If you can go to the local road race track @ 16 years old and convince them that you're sufficiently able to control a car at your age to race on the track (usually it's 18 or above because they KNOW).. then go ahead and get a fast car.
BUT.. you're 16 years old. You don't want to hear this but listen to me anyhow. Learn to drive a car (yes I know you "know how to drive already" but learn to drive a car CORRECTLY).. it's not something that happens over the course of a few months. If you can go to the local road race track @ 16 years old and convince them that you're sufficiently able to control a car at your age to race on the track (usually it's 18 or above because they KNOW).. then go ahead and get a fast car.
11-15-02, 10:38 AM
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YAH!!
VaughnC Go sell some Rx8's when they come out
Totally agree. Ive been into Rx7's since they came out (3rd gens) THen i discovered the second gens (86-91) And found that i could actually fall in love with a car!!
These cars are affordable plus, there so fun you'll want to drive em every freegin day. IF you want a fast Rx7 you need to get a Turbo II if you want to keep up with all those imports and stangs. Dude beleive me youll become addicted to these cars, i know i have im in the process of trying to buy a TII and its not easy but its gonna get accomplished!!
Dude good luck
VaughnC Go sell some Rx8's when they come out
Totally agree. Ive been into Rx7's since they came out (3rd gens) THen i discovered the second gens (86-91) And found that i could actually fall in love with a car!!
These cars are affordable plus, there so fun you'll want to drive em every freegin day. IF you want a fast Rx7 you need to get a Turbo II if you want to keep up with all those imports and stangs. Dude beleive me youll become addicted to these cars, i know i have im in the process of trying to buy a TII and its not easy but its gonna get accomplished!!
Dude good luck
11-15-02, 11:03 AM
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Get a TII!!! There is no better bang for the buck out there (hence their scarcity)
Witha little knowledge yiou will gradually ignore the ignorant piston-owner comments such as "they blow seals, etc.) They will if you turn up the boost without the fuel to support it.
These cars are an absolute blast to drive, I had my turbo rebuilt last March and got a speeding ticket 1st day.
I'm in the middle of a couple more mods that will enable me to safely turn up my boost, but just to give you an idea - right now at 7-8psi on this hybrid turbo, I can run with new Z-28's and even start to pull a smidge in 4th. Other cars I've clobbered:
Celica GT-S
modded 5.0's
LT-1 Camaros and F-birds
every VTEC i"ve encountered
a couple of LS-1 Firebirds
others I can't remember right now
A TII's power is just seamless, keep it mashed and row the gears smoothly and few cars will touch you on the freeway, once modded.
btw, I've had my TII for 4 1/2 years now and it's been more reliable than the non-turbo I had for 2 years.
Happy hunting.
P.S. Girls should come first, but you're 16 - that'll change.
Witha little knowledge yiou will gradually ignore the ignorant piston-owner comments such as "they blow seals, etc.) They will if you turn up the boost without the fuel to support it.
These cars are an absolute blast to drive, I had my turbo rebuilt last March and got a speeding ticket 1st day.
I'm in the middle of a couple more mods that will enable me to safely turn up my boost, but just to give you an idea - right now at 7-8psi on this hybrid turbo, I can run with new Z-28's and even start to pull a smidge in 4th. Other cars I've clobbered:
Celica GT-S
modded 5.0's
LT-1 Camaros and F-birds
every VTEC i"ve encountered
a couple of LS-1 Firebirds
others I can't remember right now
A TII's power is just seamless, keep it mashed and row the gears smoothly and few cars will touch you on the freeway, once modded.
btw, I've had my TII for 4 1/2 years now and it's been more reliable than the non-turbo I had for 2 years.
Happy hunting.
P.S. Girls should come first, but you're 16 - that'll change.
11-15-02, 11:25 AM
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I forgot about that 16 thing, not to put you down or anything, but it's VERY TRUE no matter how good of a driver you THINK you are you can always be better (lots of us are older by far and would agree on that about ourselves)...you can never be too good. Become perfectly comfortable with driving before you try to do what your "friends" are trying to get you to do (they should do the same). Above all things...BE CAREFUL!
11-15-02, 03:50 PM
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Thanks alot, i really enjoy all the feedback. Ill admit im not the "best driver", i do the regular good driving, but there is no substitution for expierence. I think there is a good chance ill get a TII, i need to save up around 4000 or so, for one on Ebay. The good thing is, i have to pay for everything car related. I payed for my supra in cash, and i will sell it for what i payed for it, since i restored it a bit. Ill earn the rest and hopefully have a TII by this summer. Thanks again.
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