this bad boy pulls 3000 cfm
and draws almost 20 amps

i guess i will need to upgrade my alt before i upgrade to this fan.

http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/html...c_s-blade.html

 

I don't understand the reasoning behind replacing clutch type fan with a e-fan. I mean unless you need to crawl in the engine bay ... it makes no sense.

 

Better cooling control...
More options in terms of heat exchanger(s) mounting options up front...
Ability to run the fans at partial speed (if your fan controller can handle that)...
Ability to run adjustable temp control (if your fan controller can do that)...

Should I stop now?


-Ted

 

i might be wrong, but cant you run fans off certain standalones?

 

yes mots full standalones have some sort of fan control or function that can be used to control a fan

 

Speaking of which; do you know where to get a new one? Is there a way to rebuild them if there is no way to get a new one?

 

How? The stock fan controls engine temp excellently. What exactly is improved? A clutch fan regulates temp far more linearly than a thermostatically-controlled e-fan.

The stock fan is run at partial speed most of the time. It's speed varies according to the air temp off the radiator (hotter = faster), so it only spins as fast as it needs to.

Not sure how that's an advantage. You can make your engine run hotter than normal, but who wants to do that? The only way to make it run cooler than normal would be to remove the thermostat and run the fan all the time, which is also pointless and wouldn't work when the engine's under load anyway.

I think you should stop over-stating the "advantages". There's enough myth and misinformation about e-fans out there already.

 

Big fan and shroud.

 

I believe the Mazda FSM states that the clutch locks up around 225F to 230F?
I know a LOT of RX-7 owners who don't like their water temps getting that high.
Can I see data on how you can claim "far more linearly"?


Again, can I see data to this?
I only know of the full-lock temps explicitly stated in the Mazda FSM.
Where does it claim it runs "at partial speed most of the time"?
How about "speed varies according to the air temp off the radiator"?


Again, see above - a lot of RX-7 owners don't like their cars running close to the stated full-lock up speed.
I guess removal of the stock mechanical fan and shroud isn't an advantage in your book?
Guess you don't like V-mount IC's either?


Dude, I've been patient enough will your unconfirmed claims.
I have never seen any evidence of the above.
It sounds like you're making conclusion due to your own observations, and that has enough reputable support as doggie poo.
If you're going to make claims like those, I'd like to see proof of data...


-Ted

 

The FSM says nothing about what temps the clutch operates at, at least not the 88 and 89 FSM's I have. But the 1986 Mazda Training Manual (link in FAQ) has a nice little graph showing the clutch operation as the radiator air-off temp rises and falls. It starts to engage when this temp is ~70degC/160degF and is fully engages by ~85degC/185degF. The actual coolant temp will obviously be higher than the air-off temp.

See the above graph. The gradual engagement of the clutch is clearly shown. Compare that to an electric fan that is either on or off. The temp has to rise up to the "on" temp and then the fan runs until the "off" temp is reached. At idle or constant low speed the clutch fan will maintain an almost constant engine temp (~84degC/183degF in my car), whereas the electric fan cannot do that. The temp must rise and fall for the fan to cycle on and off, usually about 5degC or so. I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad thing, I'm just pointing out that your initial statement (better cooling control) really isn't correct. It's not an advantage of e-fans.

Again, see the graph.

See above.

In most cases not really. No cooling advantage, no performance advantage, no weight advantage. An e-fan swap can be cheaper than a new thermoclutch though, and that's probably what I'll do if mine fails. Like I've said many times before, I'm not against e-fans, just all the myths and half-truths that accompany them. I've installed several of them and never had a problem with them. I just don't see much point in removing a perfectly functional stock fan.

When did I say or imply that? I think they're a great idea if you have the time and money to do it right. You'll notice I didn't reply to your point that an electric fan provides more options for heat exchanger mounting options, because this is obviously correct. If you want a V-mount, the stock fan's gotta go. Of course very few people of the people running an e-fan have a VMIC.

So are you saying I'm not clever enough to make conclusions based on my observations? Or do you think I'm just making this stuff up as I go along?

Geez, these aren't wild claims of stuff nobody's ever seen before. This is really simple stuff that's been around for ages. Common knowledge to those who've been around a while and have bothered to learn about how stuff actually works. I knew how a thermoclutch fan works long ago.

 

Wow, another e-fan thread...Yay....

Anyway, my two cents:

I like e-fans because they provide a cheap alternative to replacing the clutch fan. And I can run the fan in the pits with the car off to help combat heat-soak. All of this assumes of course that the fan is PROPERLY wired with thermostatic control and that the electrical system is up to running it...which doesn't seem to include 90% of e-fan installations I see on FCs...

But as we all know, it is the thermostat that regulates the temperature of the engine and not the fan, so swapping on an e-fan to make the car cooler just won't work.

 

Thats the best advantage I've found.......I can shut my car off and let that puppy waft my molten engine by for 5 minutes after shut-down.

 

Sorry, but you should really stop using those $30 thermostats and get into the 21st century.
You're welcome to go look-up my thread on the Spal FAN-PWM control unit.


-Ted

 

I know all about the Spal FAN-PWM unit and it looks pretty good. I also know it's only a two-speed controller, so it's not really big step up in terms of temp control. The Flex-a-Lite VSC for example is a true continuously variable speed controller, gradually ramping the fan speed up from 60% to full-speed based on temp. Don't know how good it really is though. The FAN-PWM's big advantage is that it almost idiot-proofs the electrical part of the e-fan install.

All this still doesn't change the fact that "better temp control" is not an advantage of e-fans. At best, with a sophisticated controller, it'll be nearly as good. Not that this will really matter at all in the real world.

I assume since you have no comment on the stock fan's operation, you've read the info I referred to and realised I was actually right and wasn't posting doggie poo. It would be nice if you could at least acknowledge that.

 

Nope, never clicked the link.
Too lazy to...

I don't think I would ever run a single electric fan myself.
We've run into too many headaches relying on a single electric fan, and I don't want to get stuck when it dies.
It's dual fans from me from now on.
The Spal FAN-PWM can handle twin fans.
My Haltech E8 can so that also.

I dunno what you want me to acknowledge to?
We're running radical set-up's from stock and the stock fan is useless.
20B, triple turbo, electric water pump, etc.
Sure, it works effectively with the stock set-up, but how many of us are running stock or close to stock set-up's?
An upgrade radiator is always highly recommended, so why not junk the stock fan at the same time?


-Ted

 

Back to the original post about the new black magic, why this one: http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/html...c_x-treme.html

at 21.5 x 17.5 it should just barely fit.

 

so your saying that not just anyone can do the swap ??? see like me that would be my first upgrade my cars temp gauge goes halfway ...and when im pushing the the motor it rises 1/4 mark past the middle ..... anyways,so it wounlt be worth it if my car is bone stock ??

 

can i still manage do to the swap .....

 

Dude, you can't be serious...

"Can I see data on how you can claim "far more linearly"?"
"Again, can I see data to this?"
"Where does it claim it runs "at partial speed most of the time"?"
"I have never seen any evidence of the above."
"I'd like to see proof of data..."

If you can't be bothered looking at the proof you specifically asked for, you have no place saying my info is the equivalent of dog ****. Are you really that afraid of being proven wrong? Wouldn't you rather just have the right info?

You made claims about the supposed advantages of e-fans. Several of these were not advantages at all. Simple as that.

So what? I already said if that's in the way of something it has to go. This is an obvious point so it doesn't need to be repeated.

If by stock set-up you mean a 2-rotor engine with the stock water pump and a radiator in the stock location, that would be nearly every car here, even the highly modified ones. There are very few cars on this forum that actually need to replace the stock fan with an e-fan. Other mods are largely irrelevant to fan selection. A 400hp 13BT has the same low-speed and idle cooling requirements as a stock 146hp NA, so the stock fan will be just as effective on both.

The question should be if it's working properly, why junk it? It works just as well with and upgraded radiator as it does with a stock one. An upgraded radiator is needed only when the stock one can't keep the engine temp safe, but this has no bearing on the fan. And it's always interesting top hear about people with FMIC's swapping the stock fan back on after an electric fan couldn't cope. While I'm sure this is usually because of a bad e-fan install and/or poor air management, it does prove the effectiveness of the stock fan that you think needs to be "upgraded".

Plenty of people have done e-fan swaps that worked perfectly. Plenty have also made a hash of it and ended up with cooling problems, charging problem, fire risks, etc. Like any mod, if you're not completely sure what you're doing, don't do it.

The fan is only used at low speed and when stopped. If your car overheats under load this is not caused by a fan problem. Your cooling system has other issues that should be fixed soon. Search for more info or start another thread (preferably search first). This is not the thread to discuss this problem

In your case no. It will not have any effect your problem.

 

You've made your point perfectly clear.


-Ted

 

Sorry to revive this old thread, but I did'nt want t start a new one.

If I have the Microtech control the fan: Once I turn off the car, the MT will turn off and so will the fan correct?

If so, then I shoud not Have the MT control the Fan?

 

Isn't that a Microtech question?
Shouldn't you be asking this in the Microtech section?


-Ted

 

whats wrong with it turning off when your car does? If you want further cooling of stuff after the car shuts down then maybe just get a turbo timer that shuts down the car after a preset time?

 

Whats with the pros/cons concerning fans???

The OEM works on a budget. I see the mechanical fan as the cheapest acceptable OEM solution. I no way see it as best. The stock fan is old technology. And, some Rx7s come with supplemental pusher E-fans. I guess that stock fan just isn't up to the task in all situations. So, if Mazda thinks that certain drivetrain combos requires a supplemental pusher E-fan, that doesn't say much for that stock mech fan!

I wonder what type of radiator fan is on the FD? the Rx8? and why?

The only issue that I have with e-fans is the low quality installs and cheap fans that so many use. Hack work leads to E-fan issues.

I guess I shouldn't tell anyone about the hydraulic fully variable speed tempertature controlled radiator fan powered by the PS pump. Those giant mega CFM hi/lo speed E-fans are sooooo old school.

 

So why do you think an e-fan is best? Where's your explanation for thinking this? Instead of making random statements, back it up with some solid engineering-based reasons for your opinion.

So what? Do you realise how old electric fans are? When all engine's were arranged longitudinally with an upright radiator in front there was no need for electric fans. They didn't start being used commonly in cars until transverse engines came along. They solved a packaging problem, not a performance one.

If you've ever watched your engine's temp on a real temp gauge you'd see that the stock fan has no problem keeping the engine temps well down. If the engine gets hot enough to trigger the e-fan (207degF) while idling or at low speed when the fan's needed then there's obviously a problem with the cooling system. Besides, the main reason for it is for when the A/C's running. A/C condensors need a constant airflow over them to work effectively, which is why the e-fan cycles on and off with the compressor. This has nothing to do with the stock fan's ability to cool the engine.

They have electric fans because the radiator is laid over at a shallow angle to fit it under the low nose, and this make it impractical to duct it to an-engine driven fan. Like I said, this is for packaging, not performance.

If you like and prefer e-fans that's fine, but all your critisism of the stock fan is based on a complete lack of understanding of clutch fans and cooling systems in general.