Need ignition timing info!
#1
Need ignition timing info!
So the 89 turbo swap running again, and im checking timing.
My knock sensor is bad or is wired wrong so i know its going to retard the timing. I got a rtek 1.8 installed. I was wondering, when looking at the crank, which way is the advance, and retard. if the timing moves to the right its retarding right?
when im looking at it and having a friend step on it, the timing retards by almost 20 degrees. its the same distance as from between the red and yellow dot. yellow is leading and red is trailing.
Everything is stock, except for 4 720 cc injectors and a walbro pump.
Also, my trailing is not firing for some reason. I guess it starts at startup, but when I step on the accelerator it stops working, or atleast thats what I can tell from the tach, because it works during startup and stops after mashing the gas.
I tied the black connectors together to see is the wire going to the dash is cut, and the tach work all the time, so its not the dash wire.
I changed coils with my 88gxl which I know it works, and with another trailing coil. They all do the same thing.
the engine shakes a little bit, is it loosing a connector or something. I cleaned the cas plug and made sure that plug is not loose and it still does not fire.
Also, when doing compression check witha piston tester. When you take the valve out, whats the minimum psi when it bounces? My front bounces 95-100-100, my rear bounces 95-65-65. I poured a little bit more oil in the front then the rear, Ill check it out again tomorrow morning but, I just want to know the minimum psi for the bounces, I keep remembering 30psi, but I want to be sure.
My knock sensor is bad or is wired wrong so i know its going to retard the timing. I got a rtek 1.8 installed. I was wondering, when looking at the crank, which way is the advance, and retard. if the timing moves to the right its retarding right?
when im looking at it and having a friend step on it, the timing retards by almost 20 degrees. its the same distance as from between the red and yellow dot. yellow is leading and red is trailing.
Everything is stock, except for 4 720 cc injectors and a walbro pump.
Also, my trailing is not firing for some reason. I guess it starts at startup, but when I step on the accelerator it stops working, or atleast thats what I can tell from the tach, because it works during startup and stops after mashing the gas.
I tied the black connectors together to see is the wire going to the dash is cut, and the tach work all the time, so its not the dash wire.
I changed coils with my 88gxl which I know it works, and with another trailing coil. They all do the same thing.
the engine shakes a little bit, is it loosing a connector or something. I cleaned the cas plug and made sure that plug is not loose and it still does not fire.
Also, when doing compression check witha piston tester. When you take the valve out, whats the minimum psi when it bounces? My front bounces 95-100-100, my rear bounces 95-65-65. I poured a little bit more oil in the front then the rear, Ill check it out again tomorrow morning but, I just want to know the minimum psi for the bounces, I keep remembering 30psi, but I want to be sure.
#2
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If the knock wire is disconnected then it won't mess with the timing at all. So disconnect it.
Looking at the pulley from front to rear............the lead mark is to your right and the trail to your left. So if the timing advances the marks will disappear to the left or Move to the left. Right? Right
Timing has to be done with the rpms well under 1100 rpm or the ECU will advance the timing by itself and nothing will be accomplished.
If the schrader valve is removed from the bottom end of the tester(the part that actually goes inside the sparkplug hole), then the bounces should be over 80psi.
IF you have a tester with another schrader valve on the side of the gauge, and that valve is depressed as you spin the engine, then the bounces will be much lower. As in the low 30's psi.
Mabe the compression will go up after you drive it for a while. Maybe not. Won't know til you do it.
Rotating the CAS body clockwise advances the timing.......anti clockwise retards the timing.
Looking at the pulley from front to rear............the lead mark is to your right and the trail to your left. So if the timing advances the marks will disappear to the left or Move to the left. Right? Right
Timing has to be done with the rpms well under 1100 rpm or the ECU will advance the timing by itself and nothing will be accomplished.
If the schrader valve is removed from the bottom end of the tester(the part that actually goes inside the sparkplug hole), then the bounces should be over 80psi.
IF you have a tester with another schrader valve on the side of the gauge, and that valve is depressed as you spin the engine, then the bounces will be much lower. As in the low 30's psi.
Mabe the compression will go up after you drive it for a while. Maybe not. Won't know til you do it.
Rotating the CAS body clockwise advances the timing.......anti clockwise retards the timing.
#4
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Well fudge. I did that from memory and mabe memory does not serve. I'll go out and put a light on my car in the next couple of hours to see how *** backwards I Might have been about that.
EDIT: No, I was right. If you turn the CAS clockwise, the timing advances.
Looking at the front of the pulley, the two hash marks on the pulley will move to the left of the fixed pin if you rotate the CAS clockwise. IF you move the CAS counterclockwise the two hash marks on the pulley will move to the right of the fixed pin.
#5
so I got timing right, I may need to stab the cas again since to get leading to 5 degree atdc, I had to turn the cas all the way counter clock wise.
Now I got another small problem. I borrowed an autogauge electrical boost gauge from my friend, and when driving it, sometimes there is boost and sometimes there is none. The boost gauge is running off its own vacuum hose. I have everything stock engine wise, except for x4 720cc, walbro and a rtek 1.8. Do you think the recirculation valve is stuck open sometimes?
Now I got another small problem. I borrowed an autogauge electrical boost gauge from my friend, and when driving it, sometimes there is boost and sometimes there is none. The boost gauge is running off its own vacuum hose. I have everything stock engine wise, except for x4 720cc, walbro and a rtek 1.8. Do you think the recirculation valve is stuck open sometimes?
#6
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If the DRIVE gear FOR the CAS has been installed backwards, it results in the CAS being almost unusable because it has to be rotated fully counterclockwise to get to the 5* mark.
So if after stabbing it several times you are still having trouble setting the thing to the 5* mark, the possibility of the drive gear for the CAS being in backwards MIGHT be the problem.
Simply gutting the end of the slot in the CAS is a remedy much easier than tearing the front of the engine apart to reinstall the drive gear for the CAS. I've one car with that malady.
I'm no damn good at figuring out BOV problem. What and where is the vacuum/boost hose for the outfit coming from? I mean the boost gauge. The electrical one you mentioned?
Does the stock boost gauge show a rise in pressure during boost?
So if after stabbing it several times you are still having trouble setting the thing to the 5* mark, the possibility of the drive gear for the CAS being in backwards MIGHT be the problem.
Simply gutting the end of the slot in the CAS is a remedy much easier than tearing the front of the engine apart to reinstall the drive gear for the CAS. I've one car with that malady.
I'm no damn good at figuring out BOV problem. What and where is the vacuum/boost hose for the outfit coming from? I mean the boost gauge. The electrical one you mentioned?
Does the stock boost gauge show a rise in pressure during boost?
#7
i connected the vacuum hose from the nipple of the sensing unit of the boost gauge to a vacuum nipple near the firewall on the intake manifold. Its not splitted or tee.
I dont have the stock boost gauge. There is no emissions on it.
When it does boost, its a little bit below .5 bar which is about 6-7 psi.
It reads vacuum fine, but when going 3k or higher, the gauge just sits at 0psi sometimes.
As for the drive gear for the CAS. I can take out the CAS and look at the drive gear to see if its backwards, but how do I know if its backward?
I dont have the stock boost gauge. There is no emissions on it.
When it does boost, its a little bit below .5 bar which is about 6-7 psi.
It reads vacuum fine, but when going 3k or higher, the gauge just sits at 0psi sometimes.
As for the drive gear for the CAS. I can take out the CAS and look at the drive gear to see if its backwards, but how do I know if its backward?
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#8
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My bad. It's not the gear attached to the CAS itself, but the gear on the E-Shaft that drives that small gear on the bottom of the CAS.
The problem I described would only happen on a rebuilt engine or if someone had the front cover off the engine and reinstalled that drive gear backwards. That gear has a champer on it that is supposed to face aft. Some of us have a hard time determining if the chamer is facing aft when installing it. We're champered challanged.
I'd only suspect that as the problem if you repeatedly restab the CAS and still have to turn the CAS body fully counterclockwise to get the marks to align.
If you connected the aftermarket gauge to the back of the throttle body where there are four nipples one above the other, then make sure you attach it to the very bottom nipple of the four.
Or buy a plastic tee fitting and tee into the boost sensors vacuum line.
Does the car feel like it's in boost when the gauge is sitting on it's dead ***?
The problem I described would only happen on a rebuilt engine or if someone had the front cover off the engine and reinstalled that drive gear backwards. That gear has a champer on it that is supposed to face aft. Some of us have a hard time determining if the chamer is facing aft when installing it. We're champered challanged.
I'd only suspect that as the problem if you repeatedly restab the CAS and still have to turn the CAS body fully counterclockwise to get the marks to align.
If you connected the aftermarket gauge to the back of the throttle body where there are four nipples one above the other, then make sure you attach it to the very bottom nipple of the four.
Or buy a plastic tee fitting and tee into the boost sensors vacuum line.
Does the car feel like it's in boost when the gauge is sitting on it's dead ***?
#9
From what I can tell, when boost hits, you can definitly feel the difference, from when its not boosting.
If I tee if off the boost sensor line, wont the restrictor pill cause it to read inaccurate? The pill is an inch off the manifold line. Should I reverse the line so that the pill is closer to the boost sensor?
I was also wondering if the wastegate may be the cause. If it stays open and causes more of the exhaust to flow out instead of hitting the turbines, would it cause little to no boost?
If I tee if off the boost sensor line, wont the restrictor pill cause it to read inaccurate? The pill is an inch off the manifold line. Should I reverse the line so that the pill is closer to the boost sensor?
I was also wondering if the wastegate may be the cause. If it stays open and causes more of the exhaust to flow out instead of hitting the turbines, would it cause little to no boost?
#10
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From what I can tell, when boost hits, you can definitly feel the difference, from when its not boosting.
If I tee if off the boost sensor line, wont the restrictor pill cause it to read inaccurate? The pill is an inch off the manifold line. Should I reverse the line so that the pill is closer to the boost sensor?
I was also wondering if the wastegate may be the cause. If it stays open and causes more of the exhaust to flow out instead of hitting the turbines, would it cause little to no boost?
If I tee if off the boost sensor line, wont the restrictor pill cause it to read inaccurate? The pill is an inch off the manifold line. Should I reverse the line so that the pill is closer to the boost sensor?
I was also wondering if the wastegate may be the cause. If it stays open and causes more of the exhaust to flow out instead of hitting the turbines, would it cause little to no boost?
i doubt its the wastegate, unless its not hooked up its more likely to be closed
#12
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I'm not familiar enought with series five to have any say in that. Mabe someone else.
As a experiment just buy some cheap vacuum line at auto zone and do what j9fc3s said and tee it to the boost sensors line. It does not have to look pretty right now. Do a cheap and dirty install and see what happens. Leave the restrictor/orifice where it is.
As a experiment just buy some cheap vacuum line at auto zone and do what j9fc3s said and tee it to the boost sensors line. It does not have to look pretty right now. Do a cheap and dirty install and see what happens. Leave the restrictor/orifice where it is.
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#16
ok, I just noticed something.
It just poped into my head when I was test driving the car when I installed an SAFC2. but, if the knock sensor is bad, wouldnt the timing be automatically retarded to a set limit?
Also, Im having a major problem with this RPM thing.
Ever since I started the car, the trailing will fire during start up, but seeing as how my rpm gauge sometimes like to die out (my wiring is all good) when I drive it, what can be the problem? I installed a CAS from a running car, and changed the coil pack from that same running car. I dont know what the problem is. My Zeitronix wideband zt2 wont read the rpm, and the safc is tapped into the same rpm wire and it reads the rpm weird. After light throttle, the rpm would range from 0-900. should I tap into the leading coil?
It just poped into my head when I was test driving the car when I installed an SAFC2. but, if the knock sensor is bad, wouldnt the timing be automatically retarded to a set limit?
Also, Im having a major problem with this RPM thing.
Ever since I started the car, the trailing will fire during start up, but seeing as how my rpm gauge sometimes like to die out (my wiring is all good) when I drive it, what can be the problem? I installed a CAS from a running car, and changed the coil pack from that same running car. I dont know what the problem is. My Zeitronix wideband zt2 wont read the rpm, and the safc is tapped into the same rpm wire and it reads the rpm weird. After light throttle, the rpm would range from 0-900. should I tap into the leading coil?
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