N/a Rotors + Turbo
06-30-08, 09:18 AM
#27
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now anyone on here run ITBs on a turbo system? would a haltech work ECU wise?
im wanting to do electric Aux accuators with a Aux bridge,streetport main, and agressive streetport on the exhaust.
Keep in mind that if you want to run a bridgeport, you will need a decent sized turbo. TO4R, GT40R, T70, etc. Big...
low comp rotors(t2 or FD) RX-8 eshaft, RX-8 stat gears,ITBs,FMIC. what porblems do you see with this setup?
What are your HP goals?
Auxiliary bridge is one problem, I'm not an expert on it but I've heard it's a bad idea, especially if your so concerned about low end response. In addition, all that porting on the intake and the exhaust will not work well with the stock turbo waste gate, even if it is an S5 turbo. With a street port on the intake and exhaust ports you will get massive boost creep and blow your engine right away. ITB's on a turbo are not common at all, it will take a lot of time and money to make work and probably still won't work well. I don't think the hp gains(if any) would be worth the extra time, money and headaches.
It will last as long as how good your tune is. Keep fuel conservative (don't go above 11:1 under boost) and keep timing below 15 degrees under boost.
06-30-08, 09:33 AM
#28
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Sorry to bump in here again, but this discussion is quite interesting to A: a new S5 owner and B: a power freak.
I keep hearing about the 6 ports, from what i have read, they are extra ports that open after XX RPM to allow more air in/out. Am i right so far?
I also keep seeing people say anlog the lines of the 6 ports being bad but then they say good in the next line? Basicaly i have read too much info and don't know what the 6 ports are for anymore and if they are good or bad.
It would seem to me that they would be good but i guess i am wrong.
This idea of running the stock TII turbo for near intant boost intrqes me, i am not looking for anything out of this world, just some get up and go power. I guess i should get it running before I plan a turbo conversion though...lol
I keep hearing about the 6 ports, from what i have read, they are extra ports that open after XX RPM to allow more air in/out. Am i right so far?
I also keep seeing people say anlog the lines of the 6 ports being bad but then they say good in the next line? Basicaly i have read too much info and don't know what the 6 ports are for anymore and if they are good or bad.
It would seem to me that they would be good but i guess i am wrong.
This idea of running the stock TII turbo for near intant boost intrqes me, i am not looking for anything out of this world, just some get up and go power. I guess i should get it running before I plan a turbo conversion though...lol
06-30-08, 09:38 AM
#29
Engine, Not Motor
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This should be in it's own thread...
The aux ports open under load around 3800 RPM. They are another set of intake ports above the secondaries. When they open, port timing is extended considerably, as well as airflow.
People who say the 6 port design is bad are stupid. All 13B NA Mazda rotary engines since '84 have been 6 port, for good reason. It maximizes low end torque while providing the airflow and extended port timing needed to good high RPM power.
I also keep seeing people say anlog the lines of the 6 ports being bad but then they say good in the next line? Basicaly i have read too much info and don't know what the 6 ports are for anymore and if they are good or bad.
06-30-08, 09:41 AM
#30
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I know, sorry but had i made a thread what would have happened? I would have asked that, then got yelled at to search (which is part of the reason i am so confused in the first place) then had a big argument over the pros and cons of it and got yelled at some more then a few weeks later finally get a real awnser. Just didn't feel like going through that for a quick questions....lol
Thanks for the Awnser!
Ok, this is really
/end Hijack
Thanks for the Awnser!
Ok, this is really
/end Hijack
06-30-08, 01:52 PM
#31
whats a Turbo V?
Thread Starter
alright so Aux bridge is bad.
im looking for 350-400RWHP and a redline in the 9,000RPM area. im not going to turbo till i rebiuld cause my current motor is on 195,XXX miles so if i throw boost on it now it'll blow within the week. LOL
now what kinda turbo woud be a good bet? a 20G or T04Z maybe? keep in mind i do want to overbiuld this some so its not going to blow easy.(i wanted to biuld an nissan RB motor usinf the RD(deisl RB) block. LOL yea im nuts
im looking for 350-400RWHP and a redline in the 9,000RPM area. im not going to turbo till i rebiuld cause my current motor is on 195,XXX miles so if i throw boost on it now it'll blow within the week. LOL
now what kinda turbo woud be a good bet? a 20G or T04Z maybe? keep in mind i do want to overbiuld this some so its not going to blow easy.(i wanted to biuld an nissan RB motor usinf the RD(deisl RB) block. LOL yea im nuts
06-30-08, 03:29 PM
#32
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350 - 400 HP doesn't require a bridge of any kind.
6 port or 4 port, both will do the job. 4 port is easier.
GT35 will do it with great turbo response. TO4Z is pretty big, 20G is pretty small.
6 port or 4 port, both will do the job. 4 port is easier.
GT35 will do it with great turbo response. TO4Z is pretty big, 20G is pretty small.
07-01-08, 11:46 AM
#34
whats a Turbo V?
Thread Starter
andrew. derek runs a GT35R i think.
ok new queation i saw a thing on putting a miata tranni in a N/A trans case. well im thinking of doing something similar with these high performance Miata gears.
http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?...0500%20%20WIDE
what do you think?
ok new queation i saw a thing on putting a miata tranni in a N/A trans case. well im thinking of doing something similar with these high performance Miata gears.
http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?...0500%20%20WIDE
what do you think?
07-01-08, 04:43 PM
#36
Lives on the Forum
Intrinsically, the 6 port has longer duration and bigger intake port area.
It's arguable which flows better - two smaler ports or one larger port.
The implication is that trying to use the STOCK intake manifolds off the 6-port just makes things complication.
You gotta agree with that.
6-port + custom intake + turbo should make for a potent combination; I think this is the route you too?
The OP is just...lost.
Looks like he was reading about a bunch of stuff, and now he's trying to combine all of that limited reading into a project which will never get off the ground.
Again, it all ends up being an exercise in intellectual futility.
Side note...
The RB26DETT off a Nissan Skyline GT-R uses individual TB's - 3 pairs for it's 6 cylinder.
BIG power RB26 builders yank all that **** and run ONE huge TB.
This just shows how stupid it is to run ITB's.
Then you gotta worry about getting a stable pressure / vacuum signal from that whole mess, cause you end up with two intake passages with very strong intake pulsations...
How do you deal with that???
-Ted
07-01-08, 07:05 PM
#37
I think he made that sound deceivingly easy and inexpensive.
I also think he's overestimating how much work it is to swap a jspec in, it took me 1 whole day to remove the original engine and install the TII motor minus the wiring, and that was my first time ever doing a swap of any kind.
To source all the parts he listed, buy them, ship them, wait for them and install them would be much more work and more expensive than it looks at first glance. The N332 ecu ($100) Rtek 2.1 ($400), wideband($250), Turbo ($200), Manifold spacer($150),Fuel pump ($100), LIM($ 50), Custom AN lines for oil and coolant lines ($200), 550cc/min primary's ($100), 720 cc/min secondaries($150), TII AFM($50), TII MAP sensor($40). That puts him up over $1700 and thats just to turbo your high millage na engine that will require substantial tuning(more money or gobs more research) to run properly since you will be running a 6 port motor with 9.7:1 compression rotors under boost. After all this, you will still only be able to boost 10psi maybe with such high compression and will probably pop because he's already got 100k on the motor anyway.
If you get a j-spec 13bt for $1000, an AFM, MAP sensor, TII fuel pump and TII ecu for another $250, and throw it all in you'll have a less complex, more reliable tried and proven setup with the potential for higher boost and more power for less total time, money, effort and research.
I had to make this decision for myself 5 years ago, I spend the time to look at all the options, read through many other peoples opinions and experiences on this topic, price all the parts, consider the amount of time and work involved, the limitations of na conversion and the power and reliability goals I had in mind and decided that a jspec was the way to go. I encourage you to spend the time researching so you can make the best decision for yourself.
I also think he's overestimating how much work it is to swap a jspec in, it took me 1 whole day to remove the original engine and install the TII motor minus the wiring, and that was my first time ever doing a swap of any kind.
To source all the parts he listed, buy them, ship them, wait for them and install them would be much more work and more expensive than it looks at first glance. The N332 ecu ($100) Rtek 2.1 ($400), wideband($250), Turbo ($200), Manifold spacer($150),Fuel pump ($100), LIM($ 50), Custom AN lines for oil and coolant lines ($200), 550cc/min primary's ($100), 720 cc/min secondaries($150), TII AFM($50), TII MAP sensor($40). That puts him up over $1700 and thats just to turbo your high millage na engine that will require substantial tuning(more money or gobs more research) to run properly since you will be running a 6 port motor with 9.7:1 compression rotors under boost. After all this, you will still only be able to boost 10psi maybe with such high compression and will probably pop because he's already got 100k on the motor anyway.
If you get a j-spec 13bt for $1000, an AFM, MAP sensor, TII fuel pump and TII ecu for another $250, and throw it all in you'll have a less complex, more reliable tried and proven setup with the potential for higher boost and more power for less total time, money, effort and research.
I had to make this decision for myself 5 years ago, I spend the time to look at all the options, read through many other peoples opinions and experiences on this topic, price all the parts, consider the amount of time and work involved, the limitations of na conversion and the power and reliability goals I had in mind and decided that a jspec was the way to go. I encourage you to spend the time researching so you can make the best decision for yourself.
My engines a rebuild at 40k with no problems so I will be going this route (after tuning the NA engine some with the RTEK to get a feel), and you definitely don't need 10psi on a 6 port to have fun unless you only drive straight...I'd probably need no more than 200whp. As mentioned earlier for bigger power goals a 13BT would probably be the best route. And even if it isn't the most cost effective route I still wouldn't regret it after the knowledge and experience I'd get with custom fabricating. After all this is why we own RX-7s, cause we like tinkering
After I get my beastly 150cc scooter the rex is going under the knife 
07-01-08, 09:52 PM
#41
To be honest with you I could care less which class I'm in as I only autocross for fun. I have more fun tuning the suspension and noticing the changes than I do comparing times. The simple fact that lightweight cars like Hondas, Miatas, etc. and experienced drivers (5+ yrs) have a massive advantage (I've driven my friends Miata, and its almost cheating) draws me away from the sport. The last event I ran within 1 second of my friend's built turbo vert on R's with a roll bar, sways, AGX's, RB springs, but stock alignment on a horsepower course so that was enough to convince me that I was getting the most out of the car. Plus being in school and having VERY limited funds I can either mod or autocross and since I haven't messed with the engine at all I'd rather mod.
07-02-08, 04:41 AM
#42
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Good info and I appreciate the advice, but as far as I know Jspecs are a hit or miss as far as the condition goes. I don't trust any rotary engine thats been sitting for years, maybe if I babied it. And to cut that list down a bit, he doesn't need the manifold spacer if hes using the modded TII IM's, he can run 460 primary/720 secondaries, and he doesn't necessarily need the TII ECU as the RTEK can compensate for larger injectors.
My engines a rebuild at 40k with no problems so I will be going this route (after tuning the NA engine some with the RTEK to get a feel), and you definitely don't need 10psi on a 6 port to have fun unless you only drive straight...I'd probably need no more than 200whp. As mentioned earlier for bigger power goals a 13BT would probably be the best route. And even if it isn't the most cost effective route I still wouldn't regret it after the knowledge and experience I'd get with custom fabricating. After all this is why we own RX-7s, cause we like tinkering After I get my beastly 150cc scooter the rex is going under the knife
My engines a rebuild at 40k with no problems so I will be going this route (after tuning the NA engine some with the RTEK to get a feel), and you definitely don't need 10psi on a 6 port to have fun unless you only drive straight...I'd probably need no more than 200whp. As mentioned earlier for bigger power goals a 13BT would probably be the best route. And even if it isn't the most cost effective route I still wouldn't regret it after the knowledge and experience I'd get with custom fabricating. After all this is why we own RX-7s, cause we like tinkering
After I get my beastly 150cc scooter the rex is going under the knife You said that he might not need a TII ecu, but the rtek 2.1 for TII's requires that you start with a TII ecu. I would not recommend using a Rtek 2.1 for non turbos in a boosted car. You would not be able to adjust timing in boost which is one of the Rteks most valuable features IMO.
If you are going to buy an Rtek I think you should consider buying a turbo ecu (N332 or N333) and sending it, rather than your NA ecu to pocketlogger. The Turbo Rtek 2.1 could run your NA, but NA Rtek wouldn't be able to run a turbo motor safely. I actually think that it would help you to learn to tune a mean vacuum map before having to deal with the risks associated with learning to tune in boost with a high compression engine. You would need the TII AFM and MAP to go with the Rtek for TII to run it turbo charged, but may not while you still have it NA. Turbo2liter or Henrik could probably tell you for sure though.
+1 on the knowledge and experience offsetting the fact that we pour thousands of dollars into these 20 year old cars. ( I have to tell myself this to fall asleep at night :[).
Best of luck with your project.
07-03-08, 09:54 AM
#43
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The GT35R is about the perfect turbo for 90% of applications on the 13B.
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