jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

You are changing your story. First of all, you didn't say they pull a lot of amps. You gave specific amp draw figures and CFM figures for each speed. I just questioned the source and accuracy of your posted information.

Anyone can Google and repeat information.

Did you test the Taurus fan, if so, what was your methodology? If not, then please define 'pulls a lot o amps' statement. Is that 10 amps a lot? Or is that 20 amps a lot? And how did you determine the CFM? At what static pressure did you measure? 0.05"? 0.1"? Do you even know what I am referring to?

I didn't think so. I am not trying to beat you up, just illustrating the point that bad information is clearly not helpful to the discussion.

However, when I test my fan, I will post pictures of the ammeter that clearly show the actual amperage draw of the fan on both speeds. I have no facilities to test the CFM, so I will not pretend to even estimate the air movement capacity of the fan, except to say that it is 'a lot'.

Cheers!

red_s5_fc3s

Sweet, I'll be waiting to see those readings.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Ok, I had lots to do today, but since I have been shooting off my mouth on this subject (on more than one thread!), I went to the garage with my new ammeter. No, it is not a test meter. Yes, we could argue that it is or is not accurate.

This was a sloppy quick wire in, but here it is in living color:

Ok, boys and girls, the Taurus Efan on MY RX7 pulls 15 amps on low and 25 amps on high. There is about a 30 amp draw/spike on startup on low, about a 50 amp draw/spike on high. If the fan is running on low then the a/c calls for high, there is about a 35 amp draw/spike.

No ****. Who would have guessed that all those number batted about on the net were bogus?

fcnoevil

iTrader: (3)

i want to wire mine to a switch inside the car and run on high only... how do i do this safley? what do i need and how do i do it? please help im a retard when it comes to wiring

Stanis

iTrader: (2)

I reverted back to a stock clutch fan. The idea of a fan that could move air at a tremendous rate is peachy, but it was just too killer on the electrical system. I reverted for piece of mind. I know that I can let my car idle down a whole tank of gas and the fan will keep working. One BIG reason I didn't like the e-fans was for the fact that the engine temp cycled too much to make me comfy. Instead of a constant temp with the mech fan, it would cycle on and off, on and off. The temp went up, fan cooled it down, temp went up, fan cooled it down (thermal expansion and contraction).

At night, my car would pretty much die if the fan was running as well as lights, wipers, radio, etc. What if you were boosting and your fan kicked on and you voltage dropped for a second or 2? The fuel pump sees that same voltage... reduced voltage, reduced fuel, yada yada. It's plausible.

I went to a spal fan after trying the taurus fan, and it would handle cooling the car ok, but not when I wanted to run ac. It just couldnt handle it. Unless you have space restrictions from either a 20b , a FMIC, or a bad stock clutch fan, stick with the stock fan.

Josh18_2k

iTrader: (3)

i've had the taurus fan on my car for 2 yrs.
i initially had the high speed on a 30amp relay, and it melted after about 6 months. i replaced it with a Pilot 40amp relay from autozone, and its been fine for 15k miles.
no real need for higher load relays, unless you want a 5 pin or whatever. 40 amp rating is just fine for fuse and relay.

fcnoevil

iTrader: (3)

ttt fot an answer please

shadow7

iTrader: (3)

heres the link to my brief write up on the install. everything went according to planned.

https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/brief-write-up-taurus-e-fan-install-not-56k-friendly-780090/

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/130-amp-alternator-sweetness-785082/

For future searchers!

SureShot

Old school trick.
Anytime you're adding a circuit, test the load & connections:

Check the load as was said above.

Check the connections by running the load and feeling for any heat at the connections.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

If they burst into flames, would this mean bad things?

mperformance

ok ok ok there must be something wrong with the fan installation to be melting relays like that. I also have the cycling problem that fossil stated but I know the reason why this is happening and is because of not having a thermostat in my cooling system. I will not go back to the stock fan clutch ever again.

I have yet to use the high speed on the taurus fan I got. Been running the car for about 2 months with it on a daily basis. Granted I got not AC in my car but I do have a 60-1 and a huge FMIC setup. This fan is great at keeping temperatures low just using the low speed, so good that I actually have an issue keeping the coolant temps high enough. I have a thermo switch but still this fan makes the system cycle too much as it cools the engine just to quickly. Im getting a thermostat ASAP. Been neglecting getting one just too long now. I stumbled into this thread actually looking for info on the stock thermostat.

TweakGames

iTrader: (3)

why would you never go back to the stock fan? What benefits have you seen so far?

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Your issue is really that you are attempting to use the Efan and the Efan controller to control the temperature of your engine, rather than to reject waste heat. You need a thermostat to control the engine temp. Then the efan can do it's job alongside the coolant thermostat, instead of trying to do both.

BTW, you might also have the Efan controller temp set too low. You should set it slightly above the thermostat opening temp. This allows ram air on the highway to cool the radiator so the efan can actually shut off saving you gas, power, reducing load on the alternator etc. I originally set mine to come on at 185 but I have since moved it up to 195. Why add an efan then set it to run all the time?

Get yourself an OEM thermostat here: http://www.rx7.com

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Also for future reference...

Pay attention to the donor car's wiring harness when getting the connector.
While at the junkyard today I looked at @ 50 Fords for a good fan and not only found a brand new, never mounted fan* in one car's trunk but also noticed that some of the cars had a subharness that the fan connected to that included a very nice, heavy duty 30A fuse/holder. This fuseblock had a bracket and was mounted to the end of the engine's block.

Also, be aware that Ford changed the fan connector at least twice.
The car where I found the fan had the entire front clip removed, so I had to search the others for a suitable female connector to mate with my fan's plug.
Several looked right but the orientation of the locating tabs was 180° out.
So, be careful and make sure you get the proper match.

Finally...I decided to wire my fan with a few additions to the above diagram.
Whether they will prove useful remains to be seen but it's easier to build them into the harness I must make than add them later.

I'm running the power to the fan (from the relay) through a 30A heavy duty switch so I can toggle between high and low speeds. I don't have AC but do frequently travel to Phoenix and Chicago where traffic or extreme heat might make the high speed necessary. This switch will be located in the engine bay, so it's not readily accessible but I don't anticipate using it a lot so I should be able to preplan and set it appropriately.

My fan relay is triggered by a thermoswitch in the engine block- it's not adjustable and makes contact (completes the relay's ground) at 185°, so the fan tends to run all the time once the engine warms up.
This is fine in the city but for highway running I think I can get away with no fan, so the ground wire will run into the cabin to a switch that will interrupt the relay's trigger ground circuit. That way I can kill/enable the fan at will from the driver's seat.

*When I brought this fan into the junkyard's office, the guy behind the counter said "Where'd you get that?"
"In a car's trunk", I said and we looked at it for a few minutes- in my case, marveling at it's pristine perfection while he was probably unused to seeing a part not covered in crap and rust.
"Alright" he said, "$16.18"
I almost fainted.

The fan in it's wet and glistening glory...


The subharness with fuse...


And the bill of sale...


Some days you just get lucky.
This helps offset all the blood I've spilled and muscles I've pulled while trying to wrangle parts from cars belly deep in mud and ice.
Well, at least a little bit.

TitaniumTT

Aha! Now I can really believe you when you say old and grumpy

{ainless makes nice relay sockets for standard 30A relays that you can dovetail together. Hella makes some really nice relay sockets for the micro relays that you can dovetail together. The micro relays are literally 1/2 the size of the standard relays and can handle 20 or 30 amps.

I have a degree in economics and the running joke some 10 years ago when I was studying was, "Ask 3 economists the same question and you'll get 4 different answers." I wouldn't worry about beating him up. All you're doing is what I do to alot of people here, call them out for being internet parrots that spread bullshit and lies to make themselves feel better about themselves when all they are infact doing is hurting other people with mis-information.

Again, I have alot of respect for yo uand your knowledge. Don't worry about beating him up or calling him out for the pursuit of truth and facts.

OK - now I REALLY like yoiu One test is worth more than a thousand opinions. Now I just need to find an ammeter like yours that can handle ~150A and not cost me a great deal of bread.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

You really don't need more than the 60 amp ammeter. Mine came from a tractor supply selling on Ebay. I paid $16.50 shipped. I attached a 6" length of #8 wire onto a ring connector, attached it to the alternator output (B terminal) and attached the charging wire to the other terminal of the ammeter.

Instant temporary alternator output measurement.

A systematic method is to establish the base line usage to run the engine. Then operate each subsystem independently and make note of the amps each system uses. When you have cycled through each system, add the individuals together and you have the total possible power usage, as well as likely operational combinations.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Ok this is something I have considered, but make sure the switch is able to carry the load.

Bad Idea.

I had mine set this way and the fan ran all the time. My fuel economy went down and the alternator drag on the engine was nearly as bad as the old belt driven fan. All this complication and work just to be in the same place? No way!

You want the fan to control the radiator temp and the coolant thermostat to control the engine. There should be a dead zone between the two. You really need to set the fan temp above the coolant thermostat setting so that there is some cushion between the thermostat opening 185* and the fan turning OFF, (say on at 195* off at 190*). This way, the highway operation will take care of itself and the fan will turn off when you want it to.

You don't want to be able to kill the fan. Don't plan to remember to turn it on and off when you already have the controls in place to accomplish your goals automatically.

I now have set mine with this method and it works out very very well.


Score!

TitaniumTT

That's a good idea. Actually, thats a great idea. Time consuming to get a total number but a good way to check that all the added circuits are fused properly.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

No, not that time consuming.

Insert the ammeter into the alt circuit.

Start car.

Let car charge battery, then make note of baseline engine current draw on ammeter.

Leave the ammeter in the charging circuit.

Turn on head lights, make note of ammeter reading.

Turn off headlights, turn on inside heat air fan, make note of ammeter reading.

Turn off inside heat air fan, turn on stereo to max, make note of ammeter reading.

Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

Shut off car.

Remove the ammeter, reattach the alternator charging wire to alternator.

Load all the numbers into excel spread sheet and subtract the baseline from each noted amperage to determine the amps for that particular subsystem.

Add them all together to get the maximum possible usage.

Play with likely combos.

Should take 15 to 20 minutes tops. An hour if you drink a little while working excel.

Take you longer to manipulate the excel than to take to gather the raw numbers.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Well yeah, I agree this would be nice.
I've had difficulty finding such a switch.
I've pirated several thermoswitches from cars in the junkyard and so far haven't found one that fits those specs.

The first problem is size- Japanese cars seem to favor the smaller 1/8NPT, which I can use, but European cars Volvo/Saab, etc.) tend towards larger switches.
The second thing is the operating temp range.
Most (if not all) of the Japanese cars favor a two fan installation and they seem to like having one fan kick in pretty early (@185°) and run continuously, while the second fan is either tied to the AC or a second switch that operates at a much higher threshold.

These second switches also seem to be located primarily in the rad itself and there isn't a single car in the junkyard with a radiator- they get pulled for the copper before hitting the yard.

If anyone knows of a specific make/model that uses a suitable thermoswitch, I'd love to know what it is.
I could narrow down my search or even buy one new.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Where do you have your thermo-switch installed. in the radiator or in the waterpump/engine coolant loop?

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Waterpump/coolant loop.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

I have mine in the upper radiator hose-the hottest point in the radiator. Speaking of Japanese cars, my wife has a celica that has the high speed switch in the bottom-the coolest section of the radiator. The on is 205* and the off is 185*.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Here is the switch we are looking for, actually a choice of two: on at 185* and on at 200*. The threads, 3/8 pipe, fit into the bottom well of the FC radiator where the oem sender fits on cars with the auxiliary A/C cooling fan. I am not completely sure that the sender will fit, but I am ordering one of each of these to try. I suspect that the 185*/170* will work fine, but I am also going to try the higher temp for the purpose of assuring the dead zone when highway driving.

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsea...5&autoview=sku