oh, I did my math wrong. I told you I wasn't a math wiz.

and the Z weighs ~3500, no?
and doesn't it dyno 320rwhp stock?

No, it weighs about 3300 and gets 300 at the fly stock...so like 270 RWHP

I any case, there is no way that he is going to convince anyone without a dyno or video or something....because when was the last time that you heard of a N/A hitting 220WHP without a radical porting?

A large street port that is done right should hit that mark if the engine is tuned right.

Ok people first of all there is NO SUCH THING as a twin turbo z31... You must be thinking of a z32... AND if so... an NA RX-7 has no chance whatsoever against it. A TII RX7 has NO CHANCE against it. The only thing in the little RX world that could take it is an FD or an RX8 (providing that the RX driver is better or is lucky on getting good shifts.

NA engines take LOTS of modifying to get to the 200 HP range. My KA24de was fairly modified and it was around 150 rwhp with exhaust, custom intake, header, ignition etc...

And whoever said that an FC has more pull then an integra (or a Camry for that matter...) in low RPMs doesnt know what theyre talking about. Mine feels like its asleep untill about 2500 RPM till about 7000RPM. I like my car just as much as everyone else but NA 2 rotors just arent very fast. And besides, if you have to ask how to make an NA car faster maybe you should be street racing...

That makes me look like I'm picking on anewconvert but im picking on all of the NA street racerz.

yup z31 is from 84-89 300zx single turbo which i have :Kill1: , and a z32 300zx is from 90 - 96 i believe that is twin turbo . has anyon here driven a 300zx even the n/a
z's are hella toquey .

I've got a s5na streetport stock exhaust +cold filter.. and I can hold a TII.. Beware the drivers ability... It can all be lost or gained in the driver....

What I find funny is that you think 170 rwhp is fast. In most of my experiences with nitrous installs, I start by adding an extra 125 hp to the engines; I still typically move upwards from there.
Its got nothing to do with whether or not I know how to modify cars or tune them: Making 170 to the tires isn't exactly difficult. N/A RX-7's, even street-ported, are, at best, "quick". There is a reason why all the N/A guys have turbo envy. It takes some serious porting and some seriously high revs before these cars actually start to move.

I'm not saying the cars aren't FUN. I'm saying they're not Fast.

BS. Show me a SINGLE street ported 6-port engine that makes 220 rwhp.

You guys.. Enough with this Arguements already! Take these cars to the track and let em' battle it out. Thats the One way to see whose got advantage and disadvantage. After all, its driver versus the other driver. Match your skills with the car you drive. PROVE YOURSELVES FAST!! then lets us know how it went! hah ha!!

And Turbo guys have reliability envy.

Two of my friends have 1990 300 zx's. One is n/a the other is TT. I have a 1990 GTU. The n/a driver is Payton (very good straight-line racer). He has a JWT cold air, Magnaflow muffs, and a worn Stage 1 clutch. I had a cheaper cone filter and gutted cats. We raced and were even in 1st. After that he toyed with me. Anthony has that TT. We just rebuilt the motor because of a wastegate solenoid malfunction that spiked the boost and threw the 5 and 6 pistons into the heads. We put Wiseco forged pistons bored at .20 over. rebuilt turbos. Rebuilt heads. rebuilt tranny. He had/has Megan Racing dump pipes, a 3" full exhaust, a cold air, stage 1 clutch, one piece driveshaft, aluminum flywheel, and Howe radiator, and RFL blow off valves. Before the malfunction or rebuild, he was beating early millenium Corvettes and some porsches. He was only running 10 pounds of boost. on stock turbo manifolds and turbos. During the rebuild, we bored out his exhaust ports, turbo manifolds, and turbo housings. I don't think an n/a FD would touch him. I think he would be even with or beat most modified twin turbo FDs. But I have no videos of it. Only a few pictures of them on my myspace profile. Check it. www.myspace.com/bamamanama420

Yeah, too bad NA FDs don't exist....

he prolly meant FC.

and yes, My bad, I meant Z32.

good luck getting ppl on the track. If you heard all the excuses I've heard as to why track racing is not as exhilerating. :rolleyes:

That's kinda cool, I used to own an 88 FC N/A and now I own a 94 GSR.

The GSR leaves me wanting, and VTEC has got nothing on rotary. Speaking from experience.

Anywayyyyy lemme tell you what I feel abou the GSR. It pulls pretty good from 5500 to 7900 RPM (VTEC) but it doesn't feel so powerful below that 5500 mark. Get some grippy tires and make sure you can shift pretty fast. You'll also definitely need some bolt ons to make up for that power difference. Take advantage of RWD torque and see what you can do =P

one word:


OWNED! :fawk:

HAHAHA....if you have ever Daily driven a TII without a problem raise your hand? :wavey:

learn to maintain your car and it won't break down.

i hate how you guys all get into your little corners. NA vs. TII :rlaugh:

the TII guys can't appreciate the NA for what it is and the NA guys feel like they have shit to prove to the TII guys. ONCE YOU ACTUALLY DRIVE BOTH ON A DAILY BASIS YOU WILL BE ABLE UNDERSTAND HOW AWESOME BOTH THE CARS CAN BE.



the NA:

CONS for street driving?
1-If the asshole next to you has over 100hp on you then you can't change lanes so you must stop traffic behind you so his/her cock feels big for once in his/her life.

2-you want to speed everywhere you go

3-depending on how hard you drive: adding a tad more oil when you fuel up

4-checking the coolant to ensure the system is in good shape (once a month during the summer, every 2 months rest of the year)

5-if you drive hard; 2500-3000 mile oil and filter change

6- you can't stop smiling


Pro's for street driving?
1- fast enough to get you to HWY speeds without a problem

2- the asshole who won't let you merge/change lanes and barely has 40 hp on you at most is not a problem. Downshift and you're in the lane without having to cut the guy off.

3. 18 mpg city/ 23-25 hwy

4-If driven like a sensible person: oil changes every 4000-5000 miles (assuming you add oil every other time you fill up if needed.)

5-handles like a dream if properly set up (slammin' it is not the proper way BTW)

6. will LAST A LONG TIME IF MAINTAINED PROPERLY.

TURBO?

CONS for street driving?

1-15 mpg city/21 hwy

2-the mpg is worse if you have a lead foot.

3. monthly inspections to ensure nothing is broken/breaking/peeling/melting/shearing/snapping/loosening/leaking or rusting in your car (can be tedious)

4. you want to speed everywhere you go.

5. ADD at least 1/4 quart of oil at every fuel-up ( also depends on how much your foot weighs)

6. the smile the NA gave you has now turned into a painful grin from ear to ear.


the Pro's for street driving:

1. the asshole who wouldn't let you in is no longer a problem ( unless we're talking about a 500 hp stock wagon :rant: )

2. you get where you wanna go fast.

3. handles like a dream with the right set-up

4. if driven like a normal person ( :rlaugh: seriously, i don't know of anyone like that AND owns a TII ): oil changes every 3500-4000 miles.

5. if you maintain it right it will not fail you




in reality there are several kinds of FC owners:

1. those who take care of their toys

2. those who don't

3. those who have both ( they're like multiple orgasms: either you can or can't have them)

4. those who don't

5. those who only have one POV yet continue to talk shit without actually knowing what they're talking about.




I'm 1 and 3. Which are you?? (rhetorical question meant to make you stop being an ass, i don't really care)

Everyones definition of fast is different. Quick and fast is the same in my book. 170whp is faster then 120whp that you usually see in a n/a. If my mind was set on turbo engines then I would say that 170 is slow, but since im stuck in the n/a world right now, 170 will keep me happy for a long time.

So let me see here, a non ported motor can reach 170+ because I HAVE seen atleast 2 vehicals do it with a stock S5 intake manifold. You saying a large street port can't get over 200? That is BS. Most of the time people will street port their motor but wont time the ports correctly, they go out one direction to far or to little.

To many times I see people with street ported motors saying they only get about 140-150hp on a street port but yet they have no fuel managment and never tuned the ignition timing correctly or don't even have the right tuned exhaust system. Everything is about tuning.

I will have to do some search but I have seen 1 member on this forum, or possibly on a different forum, with over 200whp with a street port. I don't know what other mods were done to the engine but he did get over 200.

All bad owners which can't maintain sports cars have reliability envy.

My TII motor has outlasted both of the NA's I've owned.

Then the remark on Cons of street driving turbo.

-MPG.
I get the same if not 1mpg more than I did as NA. I make more power and use the same amount of gas. No Con there.

-Monthly Checks.
If you aren't already doing this as a 15+year old rotary owner then prepare to get stuck on the side of a road. All those threads about "My car won't start/etc" , ask them how often they checked their engines and fixed things at the first sign of an issue. Preventative maintence is the best type.

-You want to speed everywhere.
A car doesn't make you speed. Your foot is connected to your brain.
It's not that you want to speed. It's that you CAN. In most of these cases, I find it makes you speed less because you don't have something to prove like underpowered car owners(ricer fly by/etc) .

digi7ech i like ya Avi

i think everyone is a bitch for complainin about turbo vs NA....this was gsr vs NA thread.....
Learn to appreciate what you got and dont diminish a vehicle for what it is. As pheonix says...everything has its advantages....We should be running together instead of tryn to divide ourselvs between the Boosted and non boosted cars....
I dont kno how many threads ive seen with this constant argument....My boy has a 12 second tII and on a rolling start isnt shit to me until it spools....i can keep up with him and all i have is bolt ons...I admit its a bad ass car but an rx7 is an rx7 to me regardless...

what i notice alot on the street is that FD owners seem to demean fc owners like we have a honda....every fd owner i have seen seems to look at me and any fc ive been in like we have such a low quality car...anyone ever notice that? Im not the only one that has stated this before i kno that for sure

having owned a gsr, 2 h22 preludes, a turbo h22 accord, a 95 gst eclipse, 2 tiis, a na rx7 , a s5 vert and many others (i go through cars almost as fast as i go through underwear). light mods on a NA will not keep up with a stock gsr. intake and exhaust on my gsr ran a 15.3 and near stock h22 accord ran a 14.8. intake and exhaust on my na rx7 wasnt even close to being as fast as the gsr. maybe my na was shit? but my vert feels even slower. gsrs do feel slow before vtec. but as soon as vtec kicks in its a different story, unless u short shift, ur staying in vtec (not that a near stock gsr is "fast"). in a straight line the gsr was a lot more fun to drive. but i like the overall "feel" of the rx7 better when driving it. i currently own a few DA integras, 2 tiis, and a s5 vert (vert being my DD and TII my track car). i love all fast cars for their own reasons. and unless rotamans NA is at least running mid 14s it has no chance against a z32tt, so i also call bs. youll be hard pressed to find a z32tt unmodded though. its kind of hard to believe a stock 16+ sec na be able to run high 13s-low 14s with a streetport, bolt on mods and tuning. im not saying it cant be done being HIGHLY modified though.

the gsr is a good motor, if it really is the b18 vtec, alot of people will sell a teg as a gsr but really it is a non vtec motor, and if it is stock, if it has a b16 head it will flow a lot better. gut it and race for fun, see what you are up against. just make sure you drive your best, and dont underestimate the power(performance) of the honda, they do really well at the high end, but if you get a good jump and out drive you will be fine, btu you will still lose i think, just have fun

haha i said reasonable, not grandpa-ish. ;) serioulsy i know you can save gas if you just stay off boost.


and yes, the car DOES make you speed. you wouldn't drive mom's minivan like if it was a 7, would you?

funny how i always come to this thread and see the z32 bs.




but yeah...about the race. nobody and i mean nobody that i've asked wants to go thru some twisties.