RacerXtreme7

iTrader: (2)

You really need to actually READ the whole thread (all the info is there). It sounds like at best you looked through it and didn't read anything. You don't actually seem to grasp any part of this disscussion at all.

~Mike...............

Project7

iTrader: (16)

Not sure I understand your question. Read the thread.

OutCold

yeah i clearly remember reading it so ill catch up another day, im grasping what i can, im not a mechanic of nature

Project7

iTrader: (16)

Your previous post with the picture certainly clears up what you are saying and is a great recommendation for correcting the which sides the calipers are located on. Thank you for the info on my oversight and making this modification even better. I'll have to find the right drill and tap and bust that out.

I'm going on feel right now for my front to rear bias, but I know you can get PV's with gauges for front and rear to adjust front/back brake pressures.

thetech

iTrader: (1)

Ok this makes more sense now.

I wonder if that is essentially what they do with the 350Z/etc and why that extra blank hole/plate exists in the first place.

EDIT: what would happen if you just mounted the caliper upside down essentially and didn't do any of these mods?

RacerXtreme7

iTrader: (2)

I'm not a brake expert, but those differential bores have a purpose. It’s like the sledding / body board scenario I used earlier were you keep your weight back on the board so the front doesn't dig (cause when it does dig its suddon and you generally go flying lol), except instead of the break pad wiping out, it digs in on the leading side and will wear unevenly. There’s probably another phenomenon similar to drum brakes were they self energize and it comes across as a slightly touchy feeling or slight delay in letting off the brakes from when you let off the pedle to when they actually release. These differential bores were there to combat these things that occurred from single pot pistons and 4 bores or more of the same size. Now if these were to correct problems associated with 4 pots the same size, now imagine how much you exacerbate the problem now by not only having small bore leading, large trailing, or both the same size, but now large bore leading small bore trailing? These are there for non-energizing/sticking/pad leading edge grabbing, even pad wear by dynamically applying more even force on the pad, and by aiding in a more progressive better braking feel. My feeling is go and install these the correct way.

I just thought of another scenio, remember when you were a kid installing brake shoes/pads on your bicycle? The brake shoes were supposed to be installed at a slight angle and NOT parallel to the actual rim/braking surface. If they were installed completely parallel, they'd grab and be touchy not to mention the leading edge would wear more then the trailing. I'm almost certain this is why the brakes have differential bores.

~Mike...........

thetech

iTrader: (1)

I get all of that, but what I am proposing is essentially exactly the same as your suggestion (of swapping the crossover tube and the bleed screws and tapping a new hole) with the exception of the bleed screws facing towards the ground instead of the sky. How would it make any difference to what you are saying?

Project7

iTrader: (16)

Air would get trapped in the cup bores if the bleeders were at the bottoms. Not sure why we can't flip them and leave the brake line where it's at if it doesn't get obstructed?

thetech

iTrader: (1)

Yea that's a good point too...unless somehow the location of the brake line feed has some relationship with the different bore sizes, but I can't see how that would work. Flipping the crossover tube seems like it would take about 5 minutes and solve the problem, no?

RacerXtreme7

iTrader: (2)

Oops, I missunderstood your question. Yes, you have to swap the crossover line and bleeders so you can bleed the calipers. The bleeders have to be on top or they wont let air escape. Now leaving the brake line were its at....... I dunno. It would be interesting to see were the 350Z places them if they are infact opposite position then the EVO and are the same caliper. My guess is your going to see them mounted to were I'm suggesting they should be re-located. Typically the brake line is at the higher position, much like the bleed screws are.

~Mike.............

thetech

iTrader: (1)

I wonder why that matters, if it matters at all. I'm a little nervous about drilling into the brake caliper so would like to avoid this if possible.

RacerXtreme7

iTrader: (2)

The 350Z calipers are completely different.

Project7

iTrader: (16)

^ copy that... don't want to split the calipers to get the drill shavings out either.

thetech

iTrader: (1)

Oops, guess I was wrong on the Z caliper. Interesting that the brake line is dead center on the caliper as well.

Here are the shared brakepads with the Evo, I'd guess the calipers are the same on these cars too:

CADILLAC
Model Qty Drive Body Notes
2004-2007 CTS-V 1 ALL All available body types
2006-2007 STS-V 1 ALL All available body types

FORD
Model Qty Drive Body Notes
2005-2006 GT 2 ALL All available body types
2007-2008 MUSTANG-SHELBY GT500 1 ALL All available body types

MITSUBISHI
Model Qty Drive Body Notes
2003-2003 LANCER-EVO VIII 1 ALL All available body types
2003-2006 LANCER-EVOLUTION 1 ALL All available body types
2005-2006 LANCER-EVOLUTION MR 1 ALL All available body types
2005-2006 LANCER-EVOLUTION RS 1 ALL All available body types
2006-2006 LANCER-EVOLUTION SE 1 ALL All available body types

SUBARU
Model Qty Drive Body Notes
2004-2004 IMPREZA-WRX STI 1 ALL All available body types
2005-2007 IMPREZA-WRX STI 1 ALL All available body types
2007-2007 IMPREZA-WRX STI LIMITED 1 ALL All available body types

VOLVO
Model Qty Drive Body Notes
2004-2007 S60-R 1 ALL All available body types
2004-2007 V70-R 1 ALL All available body types

thetech

iTrader: (1)

Here is the CTS-V caliper - note how the brake line feed is at the bottom end of the caliper, close to the crossover tube. This would suggest that simply swapping the crossover tube should work correctly:

RacerXtreme7

iTrader: (2)

I don't think the EVO Brembo's have any internal passages, just the external crossover line. So splitting them would'nt be a big deal. Add some air to the inlet to shoot the pistons out, then unbolt them and they should come apart. Worst case if you don't split them, I'd still take out the pistons on the side thats being drilled and dissconnect the crossover, then blow out the shavings after its taped ofcorse. The 350Z has a different caliper, and the supply line is in the middle, weird. They also do not have a crossover line, so there must be an internal passage with o-rings to seal the two halves. Maybe the brake line can stay were its at. I guess next would be get ahold of a Brembo expert/engineer.

~Mike..............

Project7

iTrader: (16)

In the mean time I will flip mine, give me a couple days and I will update with the results.

tinner

iTrader: (2)

The mounting ears on the CTS-V calipers are different and will not bolt on to the FC spindle as the Evo calipers do.

thetech

iTrader: (1)

I am aware of that, the point of my post was that it looks like it will be ok to swap the crossover tube without relocating the brake line.

uptotibet

i'm sorry - i dont buy this whole flipping thing

its all relative pressure - the "air bubbles" in relaxed state are... 15psi?

the fluid on hard braking is at a minimum 50x that. its not relevant whatsoever, i'm sorry i dont agree at all. i'm not saying you are stupid.

i am saying, if you really believe in your arguement, present a counterpoint using physical explanations not speculation.

Black91n/a

I HIGHLY doubt that the position of the brake line makes much difference. It might make it slightly harder to bleed them at first, but other than that there should be no difference whatsoever. Personally, I would not do it.

RacerXtreme7

iTrader: (2)

My entire point was they got the calipers on BASS ACKWARDS and I suggested a way to cure it. And it seems like it may work. Several occasions I pointed out that maybe the brake line / supply line mihgt not need to be changed, but the crossover line DOES and the bleeders DO. So whats with the whole "I'm not buying it crap and show me proof " garbage about? If the brake lines don't need to be moved then SWEET, because I just bought a pair of EVO calipers and thats less work for me, but they do need to have the smaller piston lead and largers trail. Sheeeesh.......

uptotibet, I'm highly confussed on whom your talking too and exactly what about...... your post is fragmented and it seems concentrated on a small insignificant issue, whatever that may be. Want to explain what the heck your not buying exactly and what proof for what theories are being debated? Someone have a little too much drinky drinky?


~Mike..........

joshrulz

hi there

just about to do this swap myself here in brisbane australia,
i agree with racerxtreme about the leading trailing piston setup, ill be swaping the bleeders end for end with the external crosser pipe before mounting, but im going to leave the brake line hose in its orginal spot, as i really dont want to drill and tap my brembos.
will test that as it is and do the drill and tap later if need be, waiting to hear project7's comments once he's tested this.

did you guys notice your caliper is closer to the disc on one side, i bolted mine up and found the caliper gets close to the disc more so on one side, i didnt read that in this thread anywhere i dont think. ive just made an extra spacer to go behined on of the pads to take up the additional gap, only about 1 to 1.5mm anyways.

thanks for all the great info, thats what has inspired me to do this setup, $700au for front calipers and evos discs was a bargan, even if the braking is the same the whole setup would still be worth it.

josh

clokker

iTrader: (2)

You can't mean this.
Spending $700 to end up right where you started isn't a bargain (or "bargan", in Outback-speak) no matter how you spin it.
Hopefully, you'll see a pretty major difference or else you may as well have spent the money on intake fuel-atomizer turbines and magnetic molecule aligners.
Both of which I can get for you wholesale...

thetech

iTrader: (1)

Mike,

Thank you for your insight in this thread. Honestly I probably would never have thought about the fact that I had them on backwards as they seemed to work well and I spend too much time worrying about other things like cooling and suspension settings

I'm going to swap the crossover tube, put them on the other sides (I'm worried I may not have enough brake line length but we'll see) and give it a shot. My car won't be up and running for at least another week or two but I will put a serious testing on it the next time out.