My Evo IX Brembo Calipers on FC3S Upgrade
08-08-08, 09:41 AM
#152
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Thanks man! I still have the SA3's, just rocking a differenting look with the Type-03's and they have bigger better tires on them right now.
09-14-08, 02:49 PM
#153
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Excellent write-up man i love it, Are those the Mitsubishi Evo IX Calipers and those breakdisc`s were once 12.65 inch original discs from the Mitsubishi, or did u use standard spec FC discs?
Last edited by OutCold; 09-14-08 at 03:03 PM.
09-15-08, 10:30 AM
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I recently came across a sweet deal on Evo IX Brembo front calipers with Hawk HPS pads and stock Evo rotors. You can get the specs on the calipers and rotors from the Evo IX FSM. I'll post them up later on the thread too once I get the Evo FSM off my work computer.
The deal was too good to pass up and I hope the big brake setup will eliminate brake fadding on longer track day runs. The car is very modified and I run it at open track day events as much as possible.
After researching the Evo FSM, FC FSM, Brembo.com and a few forums, I didn't find anything conclusive about adapting the Evo front brakes to the FC. Not to be discouraged I started comparing the Evo/FC components and recording measurements. Using a extra FC spindle I started mocking things up and found things to be much closer than I had thought they would be.
Here is what I did and came up with. First I drilled out the threads on the FC spindle using a 29/64th drill bit. The Evo caliper bolted right up to the FC spindle without any custom brackets. I know the Evo and FC have the same wheel stud pattern, so I put the Evo rotor over the FC hub. The center hole ID on the Evo rotor was too small. I lined up the caliper over the rotor, shimmed it out and threaded in the mounting bolts. It was damn close, but the outside edge of the rotor was dragging on the inside of the caliper when I spun it. I took a couple more measurements, then sent the rotors out for machining. I had the rotor center hole ID openned up to match the FC hub. Then I had 1/16th taken off the outside of the rotors to get the clearance on the inside of the caliper. I got the rotors back today and everything bolted together great!
I took some additional measurements now that I had the rotor fit and caliper bolted on securely. Because the Brembo caliper bolts to the opposite side of the FC spindle and the caliper has a larger body, it pushes the caliper outward a little more than the stock location. With the offset of my rims, I think I am going to have to use a 1/8-3/8" wheel spacer to clear the calipers. Ohhh, while I'm thinking about it.. You need 17" rims to clear the calipers too. I'm pretty excited with the way things have come together.
I'll be going to the Parker Fluid Systems store to get some stainless lines and adaptors to get all the lines connected. Once I get everything, I'll start mounting everything up on my car.
Here are some pictures of what I have so far.
The deal was too good to pass up and I hope the big brake setup will eliminate brake fadding on longer track day runs. The car is very modified and I run it at open track day events as much as possible.
After researching the Evo FSM, FC FSM, Brembo.com and a few forums, I didn't find anything conclusive about adapting the Evo front brakes to the FC. Not to be discouraged I started comparing the Evo/FC components and recording measurements. Using a extra FC spindle I started mocking things up and found things to be much closer than I had thought they would be.
Here is what I did and came up with. First I drilled out the threads on the FC spindle using a 29/64th drill bit. The Evo caliper bolted right up to the FC spindle without any custom brackets. I know the Evo and FC have the same wheel stud pattern, so I put the Evo rotor over the FC hub. The center hole ID on the Evo rotor was too small. I lined up the caliper over the rotor, shimmed it out and threaded in the mounting bolts. It was damn close, but the outside edge of the rotor was dragging on the inside of the caliper when I spun it. I took a couple more measurements, then sent the rotors out for machining. I had the rotor center hole ID openned up to match the FC hub. Then I had 1/16th taken off the outside of the rotors to get the clearance on the inside of the caliper. I got the rotors back today and everything bolted together great!
I took some additional measurements now that I had the rotor fit and caliper bolted on securely. Because the Brembo caliper bolts to the opposite side of the FC spindle and the caliper has a larger body, it pushes the caliper outward a little more than the stock location. With the offset of my rims, I think I am going to have to use a 1/8-3/8" wheel spacer to clear the calipers. Ohhh, while I'm thinking about it.. You need 17" rims to clear the calipers too. I'm pretty excited with the way things have come together.
I'll be going to the Parker Fluid Systems store to get some stainless lines and adaptors to get all the lines connected. Once I get everything, I'll start mounting everything up on my car.
Here are some pictures of what I have so far.
O.D/ID? - Original diameter/Inner diameter?
Spindle?
Threads? Are these what the bolts use too grip and lock together?
U say u had too remove some of the outside of the Brake disc too clear the inside of the caliper? Did u machine them smaller in diameter or in width too fix this?
Last edited by OutCold; 09-15-08 at 10:37 AM.
09-15-08, 01:50 PM
#156
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I machined the discs smaller in diameter to make it no hit the inside of the caliper. I just used the stock mounting bolts that came with the Evo calipers. Worked out great. I've been driving the car pretty often now and have close to 500-600 miles on it. I still need to adjust the brakes to my liking, but I'm getting there.
09-15-08, 05:09 PM
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I see, i guess all the measurements gotta be taken while installing too adapt anyway, remember how much u shaved off the disc`s? Have you upgraded your calipers in the rear yet, i havent had so much time too read over but i will tomorrow, i noticed something while skimming about the braking power wouldnt work right between the front and the rear without changing a valve...
09-23-08, 12:08 PM
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I am using the Corksport (Mandeville) rear brake kick and a proportioning valve to the rears to adjust to the bias in relation to the fronts. It's working well so far.
09-23-08, 12:22 PM
#164
Yes, the bores on the calipers are differential, meaning if your looking at the calipers, the front and rear pots differ in size/diameter. The small bore/pots/pistons should be the leading and the larger bores/pots/pistons should be trailing. This is for more even pad wear as the pad tries to dig into the rotor, the bigger rear piston applies more pressure then the leading smaller bore. Much like anyone whos gone sleading or body boarding.. you add weight to the rear of the board/slead to avoid the front from digging in (in the sleading/body board scenerio your flip and wipe out if the front digs in, were the brake pad will try to wear the leading surface more). Its important that you get this working in the right direction.
Turns out EVo 8 and 9 are the same brakes and rotors.
I'm really interested in this, please keep up up-dated with how it works out and how the bias is set up!!
~Mike...............
Turns out EVo 8 and 9 are the same brakes and rotors.
I'm really interested in this, please keep up up-dated with how it works out and how the bias is set up!!
~Mike...............
Last edited by RacerXtreme7; 09-23-08 at 12:28 PM.
09-23-08, 01:55 PM
#165
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Is it just me or do the US fc`s have their front calipers too the upper left when u look at the wheel from the side? mine are at the upper right, on the rear side of the disc...
09-23-08, 02:02 PM
#166
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Yes, the bores on the calipers are differential, meaning if your looking at the calipers, the front and rear pots differ in size/diameter. The small bore/pots/pistons should be the leading and the larger bores/pots/pistons should be trailing. This is for more even pad wear as the pad tries to dig into the rotor, the bigger rear piston applies more pressure then the leading smaller bore. Much like anyone whos gone sleading or body boarding.. you add weight to the rear of the board/slead to avoid the front from digging in (in the sleading/body board scenerio your flip and wipe out if the front digs in, were the brake pad will try to wear the leading surface more). Its important that you get this working in the right direction.
Turns out EVo 8 and 9 are the same brakes and rotors.
I'm really interested in this, please keep up up-dated with how it works out and how the bias is set up!!
~Mike...............
Turns out EVo 8 and 9 are the same brakes and rotors.
I'm really interested in this, please keep up up-dated with how it works out and how the bias is set up!!
~Mike...............
Well based on the location of the calipers from the Evo mounting point to the FC mounting points would mean that the calipers would have to switch sides. That would mean a change in direction for the caliper sees on the rotor putting the larger bore cup first. I swear the caliper bores were the same on the Evo calipers, but I'll check the Evo IX FSM to confirm this. If they are different it was by so little that I didn't notice visually and there for don't care.
09-23-08, 02:29 PM
#167
Yeah, I wasent sure if the EVO mounted them in front or back of the wheel center. If they mounted up front, then you'd would have swapped them from side to side to keep the brake line on top, which also mean the bores are facing the wrong way. If there are the same no worries. I suppose if they were swaped, you could simply swap the little line that connects both sides of the calipers from one end to the other and then drill and tap so the supply line would be on top. The bores are 40mm and 46mm, not a insignificant amount.
" If they are different it was by so little that I didn't notice visually and there for don't care."Wow, I'm kinda taken back by this comment.
~Mike..............
" If they are different it was by so little that I didn't notice visually and there for don't care."Wow, I'm kinda taken back by this comment.
~Mike..............
09-23-08, 02:38 PM
#168
Yup, I just researched it. the EVO uses the brake caliper on the front side of center on the front. That would mean you have your brakes on backwards. Well, like I said, you could simply swap the small crossover line that feeds both sides of the caliper from one end of the caliper to the other and swap the bleaders over, then on the back side of the calipers drill and tape so your brake line is on top of the brakes so they will bleed propery. And plug the old feed line hole. Or... if you don't care how your brakes actually work...lol.......
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3091/...0848a9.jpg?v=0
~Mike...................
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3091/...0848a9.jpg?v=0
~Mike...................
09-23-08, 02:45 PM
#169
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Yeah, I wasent sure if the EVO mounted them in front or back of the wheel center. If they mounted up front, then you'd would have swapped them from side to side to keep the brake line on top, which also mean the bores are facing the wrong way. If there are the same no worries. I suppose if they were swaped, you could simply swap the little line that connects both sides of the calipers from one end to the other and then drill and tap so the supply line would be on top. The bores are 40mm and 46mm, not a insignificant amount.
" If they are different it was by so little that I didn't notice visually and there for don't care."Wow, I'm kinda taken back by this comment.
~Mike..............
" If they are different it was by so little that I didn't notice visually and there for don't care."Wow, I'm kinda taken back by this comment.
~Mike..............
But...the brake line is a banjo that connects to the side/face of the caliper, not the top - when you say "you would have swapped them from side to side to keep the brake line on top" what exactly do you mean? Do you mean the bleeder nipples on top?
This is also potentially interesting as, as far as I know, the calipers themselves are identical to the 350Z, S60R, GT500, STi etc etc with slightly revised mounting bracket. These cars all mount the caliper differently (350Z is in the 3 o'clock position towards the back of the wheel while the Evo is in the 9 o'clock position at the front of the wheel) which would mean, according to what you are saying, that they would also have similar problems with the bore differential.
09-23-08, 03:02 PM
#170
Not sure I am following what you are saying here. BTW, I have this setup on my race FC and the first time out the braking performance was fantastic, not that it means anything related to what you are saying
But...the brake line is a banjo that connects to the side/face of the caliper, not the top - when you say "you would have swapped them from side to side to keep the brake line on top" what exactly do you mean? Do you mean the bleeder nipples on top?
This is also potentially interesting as, as far as I know, the calipers themselves are identical to the 350Z, S60R, GT500, STi etc etc with slightly revised mounting bracket. These cars all mount the caliper differently (350Z is in the 3 o'clock position towards the back of the wheel while the Evo is in the 9 o'clock position at the front of the wheel) which would mean, according to what you are saying, that they would also have similar problems with the bore differential.
But...the brake line is a banjo that connects to the side/face of the caliper, not the top - when you say "you would have swapped them from side to side to keep the brake line on top" what exactly do you mean? Do you mean the bleeder nipples on top?
This is also potentially interesting as, as far as I know, the calipers themselves are identical to the 350Z, S60R, GT500, STi etc etc with slightly revised mounting bracket. These cars all mount the caliper differently (350Z is in the 3 o'clock position towards the back of the wheel while the Evo is in the 9 o'clock position at the front of the wheel) which would mean, according to what you are saying, that they would also have similar problems with the bore differential.
Yeah, both you guys have those calipers on bass ackwards. But from looking at it it can be reversed and I assume they do the reverse for the other vehicles you just mentioned.
Take the bleeders and the crossover brake line (the little "U" shaped line that connectos the left and right sides of the caliper together) and swap them, as in move the bleeders over to were the crossover line is and vise versa. Now, if you look at the inside of the brake caliper, you'll see that the brake line isn't mounted dead center of the brake. Its biased to be on the higher back of the piston bore. This is so they bleed propery I would assume. If you notice theres a bung/boss on the opposite side that looks like it could simply be drill and taped and the brake line mounted there of corse plugging the old hole. This is speculation on my part as I don't have the calipers in hand yet (I'm trying to locate some for the same mod), but just looking at the pictures I wouold assume it would work not to mention you say these calipers are used on different vehicles. They simply drill the hole for the brake line in a different spot and add the cross over and bleeders to the opposite ends on the caliper.
thetech, lemme know if you dig into this any and if what I suggest is feasable, Project7 doesn't seem like he cares too much (was this a swap for Brembo bling or what??).
~Mike..............
09-23-08, 03:12 PM
#172
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This is an experimental setup and please don't take that comment literally. I'm looking at your second post and thanks for the information about the the potential flip and retap idea.
09-23-08, 03:14 PM
#173
OK, attached pic might help.
GREEN CIRCLES: swap bleeders with crossover lines (swap A with B).
RED CIRCLE: drill and tap hole and move brake line to that position and plug the old hole.
Now your differential bores/pistons will be facing the correct way (small bores leading, large bores trailing).
~Mike..............
GREEN CIRCLES: swap bleeders with crossover lines (swap A with B).
RED CIRCLE: drill and tap hole and move brake line to that position and plug the old hole.
Now your differential bores/pistons will be facing the correct way (small bores leading, large bores trailing).
~Mike..............
09-23-08, 03:17 PM
#174
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Yup, I just researched it. the EVO uses the brake caliper on the front side of center on the front. That would mean you have your brakes on backwards. Well, like I said, you could simply swap the small crossover line that feeds both sides of the caliper from one end of the caliper to the other and swap the bleaders over, then on the back side of the calipers drill and tape so your brake line is on top of the brakes so they will bleed propery. And plug the old feed line hole. Or... if you don't care how your brakes actually work...lol.......
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3091/...0848a9.jpg?v=0
~Mike...................
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3091/...0848a9.jpg?v=0
~Mike...................
Did u just swap sides on the right/left caliper?Wont that put the mount in the wrong position for the disc too slide obstruction free inside the caliper?
Did u cover this earlier in the thread, got a vague memory of reading something about it earlier, im just too tired too read back right now
09-23-08, 03:18 PM
#175
I'm just trying to help, as I'm really interested in doing this mod. I always thought of doing it, but you actually did it (front EVO's, 929 master, rear Corksport) and did the leg work in figuring out mounting the calipers and rotors. I really want to do this for a performance stand point and am worried about getting the bias correct.
~Mike...........
~Mike...........