the more I read about mods, the less I want to do them
09-09-10, 04:01 PM
#1
the more I read about mods, the less I want to do them
Way back when I was a total noob, about three weeks ago, I was planning a list of mods to do since I've got the engine and drive train out of the car. After reading up a lot on them, it seems that the return on my mod list is negligible, and often results in a decrease of driveability. I thought I'd list the mods I was thinking of and why I decided for or against them, so that if someone has some better info, they might can point it out to me before I put everything back together, which should be "real soon now". I'll be running a street ported NA in my 90 GXL, when all is said and done.
1> No on the TB mod. Which included removing the AWS. Seems like the returns on this, if anything, are slightly improved throttle response at the cost of crappy idle and difficulties keeping the car running when cold
2> No on removing emissions. Since I need to have emissions testing where I live, and I have a high flow cat, removing the emissions meant that I'd have to add the air pump and cat once a year and run with a race pipe the rest of the time, running the risk of a ticket. The high flow cat, while not a race pipe, is probably close enough that I'm not going to notice the difference, except maybe on a dyno. I had thought of running the air pump directly to the cat, but it seems that the cat needs a specific ratio of air to exhaust that the ACV manages, without which, you just end up ruining the cat.
3> No on removing the aux sleeves and actuators. Seems like the only reason to do this is to prevent the possibility that the aux ports might get stuck down the road, at the cost of some low end torque.
Things I am going to do....
1> MOP conversion. I've seen the carbon buildup on the rotors from my previous engine. Pretty nasty.
2> Porting the aux sleeves, if possible. Since the aux port is ported, I'm going to try and match up the aux sleeves so that there's no obstruction when the ports are fully opened. I figure that even if this causes the aux ports to be a mm "open", even when closed, this shouldn't be very noticeable.
3> Banjo bolt. I did a lot of reading and have decided that for my injector sizes and power outputs, it makes sense. It seems like the need for a FPD increases as your injector size increases. That and a replacement is $250
. I'm going to add a loop or two of fuel line in to give the system a little extra flex
4> I may even go back to the stock air box. I've been running with a cone filter in the engine bay for a while now. My reading indicates that for an N/A, the stock air box isn't going to be restrictive enough to notice. When you add in the lowered intake temps, it's a wash it seems.
If I've overlooked something major, please let me know!!!!
1> No on the TB mod. Which included removing the AWS. Seems like the returns on this, if anything, are slightly improved throttle response at the cost of crappy idle and difficulties keeping the car running when cold
2> No on removing emissions. Since I need to have emissions testing where I live, and I have a high flow cat, removing the emissions meant that I'd have to add the air pump and cat once a year and run with a race pipe the rest of the time, running the risk of a ticket. The high flow cat, while not a race pipe, is probably close enough that I'm not going to notice the difference, except maybe on a dyno. I had thought of running the air pump directly to the cat, but it seems that the cat needs a specific ratio of air to exhaust that the ACV manages, without which, you just end up ruining the cat.
3> No on removing the aux sleeves and actuators. Seems like the only reason to do this is to prevent the possibility that the aux ports might get stuck down the road, at the cost of some low end torque.
Things I am going to do....
1> MOP conversion. I've seen the carbon buildup on the rotors from my previous engine. Pretty nasty.
2> Porting the aux sleeves, if possible. Since the aux port is ported, I'm going to try and match up the aux sleeves so that there's no obstruction when the ports are fully opened. I figure that even if this causes the aux ports to be a mm "open", even when closed, this shouldn't be very noticeable.
3> Banjo bolt. I did a lot of reading and have decided that for my injector sizes and power outputs, it makes sense. It seems like the need for a FPD increases as your injector size increases. That and a replacement is $250
. I'm going to add a loop or two of fuel line in to give the system a little extra flex4> I may even go back to the stock air box. I've been running with a cone filter in the engine bay for a while now. My reading indicates that for an N/A, the stock air box isn't going to be restrictive enough to notice. When you add in the lowered intake temps, it's a wash it seems.
If I've overlooked something major, please let me know!!!!
09-09-10, 04:24 PM
#2
Good idea on keeping the emissions on an N/A. You have an s5, so doing so will remove your auxiliary port function.
The AWR can easily be disconnected from the electrical plug. Nothing else effected by doing so and it's something I have done.
TB mod sucks. Period.
MOP conversion. You have an S5 N/A, the MOP is electrical. You will need a RTEK at the LEAST to be able to convert or remove it to anything else.
Banjo bolt, you have an S5 n/a. The fuel rail has no removable pulsation dampner. Unless you can figure out some way to use the S4 primary fuel rail, that is out of the question.
Keep the stock airbox with a drop in K&N if you still have it, otherwise build a "box" for your cone filter.
The AWR can easily be disconnected from the electrical plug. Nothing else effected by doing so and it's something I have done.
TB mod sucks. Period.
MOP conversion. You have an S5 N/A, the MOP is electrical. You will need a RTEK at the LEAST to be able to convert or remove it to anything else.
Banjo bolt, you have an S5 n/a. The fuel rail has no removable pulsation dampner. Unless you can figure out some way to use the S4 primary fuel rail, that is out of the question.
Keep the stock airbox with a drop in K&N if you still have it, otherwise build a "box" for your cone filter.
09-09-10, 04:33 PM
#3
RE_p Rotors
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I completly agree with you as far as mods list and modifying. I am still young and stupid and have the quest for more power on a daily basis and my car suffers from it.
blew the engine with mods
rebuilt the motor with more mods
88 t2 agressive streetport/modded tb/no emmissions/no a/c/ no power steering/550 720inj/rtek 1.7 ecu/3in rev2/custom fuel lines/etc/etc
long story short put only 20k miles on the car in 5 years and sank around 6k in it sense.
always broke/always frustrated
I drive my fathers mint STOCK 88 t2 on a daily basis never had a hickup even on neglected maitence. should have just kept it stock in the first place so i could actually enjoy the car on all these nice days.
blew the engine with mods
rebuilt the motor with more mods
88 t2 agressive streetport/modded tb/no emmissions/no a/c/ no power steering/550 720inj/rtek 1.7 ecu/3in rev2/custom fuel lines/etc/etc
long story short put only 20k miles on the car in 5 years and sank around 6k in it sense.
always broke/always frustrated
I drive my fathers mint STOCK 88 t2 on a daily basis never had a hickup even on neglected maitence. should have just kept it stock in the first place so i could actually enjoy the car on all these nice days.
09-09-10, 04:35 PM
#4
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yep basically you have the right idea. if you have to pass smog then you might as well leave everything on top of the motor, it costs zero power to run, and really the stuff on the vacuum rack only goes bad when people touch it.
just some thoughts...
the AWS is easy to cap off, the thermowax, the thing that gives you the fast idle when cold, is a keeper though.
premixing is lame... IMO.
the aux sleeves are arguably too big anyways. there is a fellow who posted a dyno of his aux bridgeported motor vs a bridge and stock aux ports. the non aux ported engine, even with the aux ports CLOSED makes more power everywhere.
the S5 PD's almost never go bad
just some thoughts...
the AWS is easy to cap off, the thermowax, the thing that gives you the fast idle when cold, is a keeper though.
premixing is lame... IMO.
the aux sleeves are arguably too big anyways. there is a fellow who posted a dyno of his aux bridgeported motor vs a bridge and stock aux ports. the non aux ported engine, even with the aux ports CLOSED makes more power everywhere.
the S5 PD's almost never go bad
09-09-10, 04:45 PM
#5
I'll argue that this is a common misconception. They S5 PD's can go bad just as likely as the S4 one's can. Ask me how I know. There really isn't anything special about them, they are just built into the fuel rail on the S5's, making a bad PD a costly repair due to having to replace the whole fuel rail vs. on an s4, having to replace just the PD.
In my opinion, they should of kept a S4 style PD on there.
In my opinion, they should of kept a S4 style PD on there.
09-09-10, 04:54 PM
#6
How about replacing the cast manifold with a Racing Beat header for starters and yes attach your high flow cat to it,keep your air pump you will gain about 13 HP then build yourself a outside fresh air intake to the filter for every 10% you lower your intake charge gives you 1%gain in HP,then for quicker pick up try converting your 6 ports actuators,from exaust pressure activation to vacum pull use a spare pair and compare results, then you could use a kick down switch on your gas pedal to cut power to your fuel rail vacum solinoid , which will jack up your fuel pressure about 6lbs (same circuit they use for cold starts) and will make your car run like it has bigger injectors(when your foot is planted), you could of course try running 550 turbo injectors, since they are only 100 cc bigger (each) also install a new fuel tank screen,for starters
09-09-10, 05:12 PM
#7
How about replacing the cast manifold with a Racing Beat header for starters and yes attach your high flow cat to it,keep your air pump you will gain about 13 HP then build yourself a outside fresh air intake to the filter for every 10% you lower your intake charge gives you 1%gain in HP,then for quicker pick up try converting your 6 ports actuators,from exaust pressure activation to vacum pull use a spare pair and compare results, then you could use a kick down switch on your gas pedal to cut power to your fuel rail vacum solinoid , which will jack up your fuel pressure about 6lbs (same circuit they use for cold starts) and will make your car run like it has bigger injectors(when your foot is planted), you could of course try running 550 turbo injectors, since they are only 100 cc bigger (each) also install a new fuel tank screen,for starters
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09-09-10, 05:24 PM
#8
Stay stock, stay happy.
One thing you may want to consider though is an Rtek 2.1 . Besides disabling AWS and OMP limp mode, it will allow you to play with the aux ports and VDI trigger rpm, plus you can lean out the factory tune and you can try adding a little bit of timing. There really are no driveability downsides unless you do something stupid with it. Also, an RB header will give you power, but you have to decide how much you care about the additional noise.
One thing you may want to consider though is an Rtek 2.1 . Besides disabling AWS and OMP limp mode, it will allow you to play with the aux ports and VDI trigger rpm, plus you can lean out the factory tune and you can try adding a little bit of timing. There really are no driveability downsides unless you do something stupid with it. Also, an RB header will give you power, but you have to decide how much you care about the additional noise.
09-09-10, 05:43 PM
#10
Stock (200hp Turbo or 130hp NA) = Reliable, Not very fast, easy to drive, moderate handling abilities, old parts begin to fail, quiet, can pass emissions, no looks from cops or 'tuners'.
Mildly Modded (250-350HP turbo or 150-180 NA)= Reliable (if done correctly), faster than stock, drivability begins to deteriorate slightly, better handling, can pass emissions with some adjustments/tricks, cops only see you when your speeding, and 'tuners' wonder what it is when you rip past them.
Heavily modified (+400hp Turbo or +200hp NA)= Less reliable (but I feel they can be just as reliable with more attention to maintanence and inspection, to a point), Great handling, Rocket Acceleration and Speed, Cops like to pull your *** over for your loud exhaust or speeding, and 'tuners' drool on your large turbine and vmount IC.
Life is full of choices...
Mildly Modded (250-350HP turbo or 150-180 NA)= Reliable (if done correctly), faster than stock, drivability begins to deteriorate slightly, better handling, can pass emissions with some adjustments/tricks, cops only see you when your speeding, and 'tuners' wonder what it is when you rip past them.
Heavily modified (+400hp Turbo or +200hp NA)= Less reliable (but I feel they can be just as reliable with more attention to maintanence and inspection, to a point), Great handling, Rocket Acceleration and Speed, Cops like to pull your *** over for your loud exhaust or speeding, and 'tuners' drool on your large turbine and vmount IC.
Life is full of choices...
09-09-10, 05:49 PM
#11
The last seven I drove was a barebones street car, completely gutted N/A and it was horrible to get around in, if it wasn't a seven I would have killed it long before I actually did. When I got my most recent T2 at the top of the list was a decent interior and a sunroof that worked / didn't leak.
It's a tradeoff, performance vs. comfort vs. reliability.
09-09-10, 06:29 PM
#12
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As soon as You START reading Threads on the Rx7 Club,you may as well admit Defeat!.
You read about ONE mod,and end up putting Six Years of Money into the car!..at least that is MY story!..
The best thing you can do right now,is Stop Reading!..and go for a drive!.Enjoy the car.
You read about ONE mod,and end up putting Six Years of Money into the car!..at least that is MY story!..
The best thing you can do right now,is Stop Reading!..and go for a drive!.Enjoy the car.
09-09-10, 08:51 PM
#13
My understanding about capping off the AWS is that it'll take longer for the thermowax to melt without the engine coolant flowing through it.
The MOP conversion I'm talking about is the rotary aviation conversion kit. It blocks off the crank oil and provides a nipple to feed two-stroke from. You still have the MOP running, it just feeds two stroke instead.
I picked up an S4 primary fuel rail to replace mine with so that I could do the banjo bolt mod.
I've thought about a RB header, but the high-flow cat I got comes with a pre-silencer welded on and the whole thing bolts right up to the stock exhaust manifold on one end and the y-pipe on the other. It looks like the RB headers would attach where the stock pre-silencer would end, which is right in the middle of my welded-on pre-silencer.
Believe me though, once I get the car running again and legal, I'm going to stop reading and just drive. I've been doing all reading and no driving. It does suck! But the light at the end of the tunnel is getting brighter.
The MOP conversion I'm talking about is the rotary aviation conversion kit. It blocks off the crank oil and provides a nipple to feed two-stroke from. You still have the MOP running, it just feeds two stroke instead.
I picked up an S4 primary fuel rail to replace mine with so that I could do the banjo bolt mod.
I've thought about a RB header, but the high-flow cat I got comes with a pre-silencer welded on and the whole thing bolts right up to the stock exhaust manifold on one end and the y-pipe on the other. It looks like the RB headers would attach where the stock pre-silencer would end, which is right in the middle of my welded-on pre-silencer.
Believe me though, once I get the car running again and legal, I'm going to stop reading and just drive. I've been doing all reading and no driving. It does suck! But the light at the end of the tunnel is getting brighter.
09-09-10, 09:30 PM
#14
As soon as You START reading Threads on the Rx7 Club,you may as well admit Defeat!.
You read about ONE mod,and end up putting Six Years of Money into the car!..at least that is MY story!..
The best thing you can do right now,is Stop Reading!..and go for a drive!.Enjoy the car.
You read about ONE mod,and end up putting Six Years of Money into the car!..at least that is MY story!..
The best thing you can do right now,is Stop Reading!..and go for a drive!.Enjoy the car.
09-09-10, 10:47 PM
#15
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I came to similar conclusions when I rebuilt mine. I did the MOP mod you're talking about and the ones in my sig. I couldn't be happier with reliability so far. I have daily driven it about 7k miles so far. I have seen other modified sevens around and since I daily drive mine I am glad it's not too modified right now. Of course old parts are old and some things need to be replaced on any car. Then is when a lot of people choose to mod because of saving money or ease of shortcut or plain old "it's faster now" mentality. And premix isn't so bad, it's kind of fun to pour oil where the gas goes haha.
09-09-10, 11:11 PM
#17
As an example. My N/A transmission was leaking oil and shifting was notchy. I read about getting a TII transmission. Next thing you know I might as well replace the diff to LSD, oh while i'm in there i'll put new diff bushings, ohh the shocks are easy to access and old, might as well do it now before doing twice the work again, ect. ect.....
The positive part of all this is knowing that your car has fresh components and what parts do not.
09-09-10, 11:49 PM
#18
Yeah, well, the reason that I'm not driving right now is because of the 'well, as long as I've got everything out' mentality. I'm going back to almost totally stock, save for the street ported engine that I bought, but I've made at least a dozen trips to the bead blaster at work, painting major rusty stuff under the car "as long as it's up on jacks", painted the rear end "as long as it's out" etc. etc. etc.
09-10-10, 12:28 AM
#19
"While you're there..." are the most expensive three words I know. In defense of modding though, you can have a 7 with the performance of a Honduh civic, or seriously mod the car and kick Vette *** on the track. I've got a TII on blocks that I may never finish, but it'll be a supercar when I'm done (someday?). Jekyll or Hyde take your pick.
FD's are the worst. Keeping a 3rd gen stock is like paying $10,000 for a world class hooker and having her clean your kitchen.
FD's are the worst. Keeping a 3rd gen stock is like paying $10,000 for a world class hooker and having her clean your kitchen.
09-10-10, 02:07 AM
#20
damn reading this thread is sorta depressing makes me reget doing what I did to my first car, but if I didn't do what I did to it I wouldn't have got my rx7 ^_^
But I was always thinking about keeping my 7 stock and this thread boosted it ten fold. I was just gonna do a K&N drop in filter, headers, high flow cat, corksport cat-back, corksport rad, fan shroud, and put my FD rims and maybe a RE wing and be happy with what I got and have fun. Can't wait to get her off jack stands!!
But I was always thinking about keeping my 7 stock and this thread boosted it ten fold. I was just gonna do a K&N drop in filter, headers, high flow cat, corksport cat-back, corksport rad, fan shroud, and put my FD rims and maybe a RE wing and be happy with what I got and have fun. Can't wait to get her off jack stands!!
09-10-10, 03:23 AM
#21
I wouldn't get an RB header as besides being noisy you already got almost all of the benefit from your high flow cat. It even says so on the RB website: their downpipe + presilencer is almost as good, and all it does is replace the cat. The header is for carbed vehicles.
4) (air box). Yeah, you are actually losing a couple HP from the cone sucking in warm air. But if you put a box around it and route the box to outside air you can gain 5-6 hp (2-3 hp over stock). I'd do that instead if you have the free time. You can search the forums for several examples.
Yeah, there's not much else you can do besides porting it. Though an RTek may help.
4) (air box). Yeah, you are actually losing a couple HP from the cone sucking in warm air. But if you put a box around it and route the box to outside air you can gain 5-6 hp (2-3 hp over stock). I'd do that instead if you have the free time. You can search the forums for several examples.
Yeah, there's not much else you can do besides porting it. Though an RTek may help.
09-10-10, 09:50 AM
#22
Engine, Not Motor
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Way back when I was a total noob, about three weeks ago, I was planning a list of mods to do since I've got the engine and drive train out of the car. After reading up a lot on them, it seems that the return on my mod list is negligible, and often results in a decrease of driveability. I thought I'd list the mods I was thinking of and why I decided for or against them, so that if someone has some better info, they might can point it out to me before I put everything back together, which should be "real soon now". I'll be running a street ported NA in my 90 GXL, when all is said and done.
1> No on the TB mod. Which included removing the AWS. Seems like the returns on this, if anything, are slightly improved throttle response at the cost of crappy idle and difficulties keeping the car running when cold
You can remove the tertiary butterflies without issue. There won't be much benefit, other then removing a few unneeded parts and "cleaning up" the area. But without question, you will want to keep the colds start cam/thermowax assembly.
2> No on removing emissions. Since I need to have emissions testing where I live, and I have a high flow cat, removing the emissions meant that I'd have to add the air pump and cat once a year and run with a race pipe the rest of the time, running the risk of a ticket. The high flow cat, while not a race pipe, is probably close enough that I'm not going to notice the difference, except maybe on a dyno. I had thought of running the air pump directly to the cat, but it seems that the cat needs a specific ratio of air to exhaust that the ACV manages, without which, you just end up ruining the cat.
3> No on removing the aux sleeves and actuators. Seems like the only reason to do this is to prevent the possibility that the aux ports might get stuck down the road, at the cost of some low end torque.
If an aux port sleeve sticks, just unstick it.
1> MOP conversion. I've seen the carbon buildup on the rotors from my previous engine. Pretty nasty.
2> Porting the aux sleeves, if possible. Since the aux port is ported, I'm going to try and match up the aux sleeves so that there's no obstruction when the ports are fully opened. I figure that even if this causes the aux ports to be a mm "open", even when closed, this shouldn't be very noticeable.
3> Banjo bolt. I did a lot of reading and have decided that for my injector sizes and power outputs, it makes sense. It seems like the need for a FPD increases as your injector size increases. That and a replacement is $250 . I'm going to add a loop or two of fuel line in to give the system a little extra flex
. I'm going to add a loop or two of fuel line in to give the system a little extra flex
4> I may even go back to the stock air box. I've been running with a cone filter in the engine bay for a while now. My reading indicates that for an N/A, the stock air box isn't going to be restrictive enough to notice. When you add in the lowered intake temps, it's a wash it seems.
AND A FULL TUNEUP!
09-10-10, 10:44 AM
#24
I decided to do the banjo bolt because I've got about 180K on the car and I've got no idea if the PD was ever changed. For the mod, I bought an S4 primary rail to swap in for the S5. I figure, since I've already got the car torn down, I might as well save myself some (possible) trouble later on.
Not sure about what that looks like. Got a link to a howto?
Not sure about what that looks like. Got a link to a howto?
