MMO and premix
10-20-04, 02:10 PM
#7
Most premixers recommend using 4 oz per tank, and as high as 8 oz if racing on the track. I used MMO for one tank and got a lot of carbon soot on my rear bumper, so I switched to Echo power stroke chainsaw oil (2 cycle) that you can buy at any Home Depot. I like the Echo product because it emits low smoke emissions and is JSO-certified, which is the highest worldwide standard (even higher than TCW-3) and it doesn't leave those sooty deposits on my rear bumper like MMO!
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10-20-04, 02:20 PM
#8
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Originally Posted by RCCAZ 1
Most premixers recommend using 4 oz per tank, and as high as 8 oz if racing on the track. I used MMO for one tank and got a lot of carbon soot on my rear bumper, so I switched to Echo power stroke chainsaw oil (2 cycle) that you can buy at any Home Depot. I like the Echo product because it emits low smoke emissions and is JSO-certified, which is the highest worldwide standard (even higher than TCW-3) and it doesn't leave those sooty deposits on my rear bumper like MMO!
It's something like 100:1 ratio on street and like 50:1 ratio for track.
10-20-04, 02:31 PM
#11
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Originally Posted by dDuB
^^ That seems way too low to me for proper apex seal lubrication...
10-20-04, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 1987RX7guy
MMO is not a TCW-3 oil. DO NOT USE IT AS PRE-MIX!
OK I have read more than 3 times today that MMO does not work as premix solution for the rotary engine.
All of you need to stop this complete nonsence NOW. I have not seen even ONE example of MMO killing or damaging an engine from using it as a premix. not ONE. Please search the forum for a horror story, your going to have a hard time, because there ISNT one. Not a single one.
Now I am living proof that MMO works as a premix. I use my first gen as a daily driver. I have no omp installed at all. AT every fillup I add 1oz of mmo, per gallon of gasoline. Guess what 12,000 miles later, my motor is just as strong as when I finished breaking it in! On top of the benifits of 2 stroke oil, it cleans and lubricates the entire fuel system as wel as the MMO in your engine will leave it SPOTLESS.
I wrecked my car 2 thousand miles ago. I pulled the motor out and put it in my current car. When it was out, i turned it over by hand, and looked in the exhaust ports with a flash light. DAN ATKINS, (of atkins rotary) said the motor sounds EXTREMELY good for the miles on it. The puleses sounded to me just like when the motor was new, if not better. WHen I looked in the engine, the engine was SPOTLESS .
Heres an explanation of what MMO was designed for in the first place:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
Here's the word, Buckaroos....
My lesson in History of MMO came from an old Harley/Vincent motorcycle rider/mechanic and machine shop owner. (George Brey served with Patton in WWII) He says that MMO was originally invented back in the early 1920's as as a supercharger lubricant for racing and for planes. As the air/fuel mixture came into the supercharger (blower for the drag guys) it was compressed by spinning vanes so that more of the mixture could be "charged" into thru the intake manifold and into the cylinders. Problem was that air/ruel is not a good lubricant and as the vanes spun by the inside of the supercharger housing both the vanes and the housing would be worn away ultimately negating the performance of the "charger." MMO mixed with fuel provides a "burnable" lubricant that coats the vanes and housing thus thus extending and improving the perfomance life of the "charger." It is also an excellent top cylinder cleansing agent, keeping valves, heads, and piston tops free of carbon, varnish, and corrosive materials. Taking apart an engine that had MMO in the fuel and crankcase shows it keeps the internals "clean as a hound's tooth." Says George as he nods as if passing on an old hidden secret. All I can say is it works on all my 7's and boingers. It's great for starting flooded rotaries. Nowhere near as smokey as ATF, and since it was designed to be burned, it's better for your rotary than ATF which wasn't meant to be burned.
Sounds exactly what a 2 stroke oil does PLUS more.
So this rumor of MMO not working as a premix is only a myth, and this myth is being debunked right now. End of story. Disagree with me? Post some proof, not just what you heard from someone.
The way untrue information gets accepted as fact on this forum makes me sick sometimes.
All of you need to stop this complete nonsence NOW. I have not seen even ONE example of MMO killing or damaging an engine from using it as a premix. not ONE. Please search the forum for a horror story, your going to have a hard time, because there ISNT one. Not a single one.
Now I am living proof that MMO works as a premix. I use my first gen as a daily driver. I have no omp installed at all. AT every fillup I add 1oz of mmo, per gallon of gasoline. Guess what 12,000 miles later, my motor is just as strong as when I finished breaking it in! On top of the benifits of 2 stroke oil, it cleans and lubricates the entire fuel system as wel as the MMO in your engine will leave it SPOTLESS.
I wrecked my car 2 thousand miles ago. I pulled the motor out and put it in my current car. When it was out, i turned it over by hand, and looked in the exhaust ports with a flash light. DAN ATKINS, (of atkins rotary) said the motor sounds EXTREMELY good for the miles on it. The puleses sounded to me just like when the motor was new, if not better. WHen I looked in the engine, the engine was SPOTLESS .
Heres an explanation of what MMO was designed for in the first place:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
Here's the word, Buckaroos....
My lesson in History of MMO came from an old Harley/Vincent motorcycle rider/mechanic and machine shop owner. (George Brey served with Patton in WWII) He says that MMO was originally invented back in the early 1920's as as a supercharger lubricant for racing and for planes. As the air/fuel mixture came into the supercharger (blower for the drag guys) it was compressed by spinning vanes so that more of the mixture could be "charged" into thru the intake manifold and into the cylinders. Problem was that air/ruel is not a good lubricant and as the vanes spun by the inside of the supercharger housing both the vanes and the housing would be worn away ultimately negating the performance of the "charger." MMO mixed with fuel provides a "burnable" lubricant that coats the vanes and housing thus thus extending and improving the perfomance life of the "charger." It is also an excellent top cylinder cleansing agent, keeping valves, heads, and piston tops free of carbon, varnish, and corrosive materials. Taking apart an engine that had MMO in the fuel and crankcase shows it keeps the internals "clean as a hound's tooth." Says George as he nods as if passing on an old hidden secret. All I can say is it works on all my 7's and boingers. It's great for starting flooded rotaries. Nowhere near as smokey as ATF, and since it was designed to be burned, it's better for your rotary than ATF which wasn't meant to be burned.
Sounds exactly what a 2 stroke oil does PLUS more.
So this rumor of MMO not working as a premix is only a myth, and this myth is being debunked right now. End of story. Disagree with me? Post some proof, not just what you heard from someone.
The way untrue information gets accepted as fact on this forum makes me sick sometimes.
10-20-04, 02:41 PM
#14
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I've been using a little more then 100:1 but right now i'm running close to 128:1 because i didn't have a lot of oil left. I'm going to run the fuel down a little then dump some more in when i get the chance to buy some.
I hoping it doesn't hurt the car
I hoping it doesn't hurt the car
10-20-04, 02:47 PM
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Technically, you could just dump 20W-30 into your gas and it would work as a lubricant, the problem is it's not designed to be burned and causes carbon build up. The lubrication part isn't the problem, the problem is what happens when it leaves the engine. Is it burned completely? Is it smokeless? Does it leave massive amounts of carbon? That's what you have to ask yourself.
10-20-04, 03:00 PM
#16
Ho's and Cadillac Doors
Originally Posted by Parastie
Technically, you could just dump 20W-30 into your gas and it would work as a lubricant, the problem is it's not designed to be burned and causes carbon build up. The lubrication part isn't the problem, the problem is what happens when it leaves the engine. Is it burned completely? Is it smokeless? Does it leave massive amounts of carbon? That's what you have to ask yourself.
And a better question, what the hell would 20W-30 do to your injectors? I can only imagine.
10-20-04, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by MountainTurbo
So what about this (stolen from the 1st gen forum):
He makes a good argument for the fact that it is/can be used as pre-mix.
He makes a good argument for the fact that it is/can be used as pre-mix.
But MMO will work as premix, it just may or may not have a track record or be certified to work in FI engines....
10-20-04, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Parastie
Technically, you could just dump 20W-30 into your gas and it would work as a lubricant, the problem is it's not designed to be burned and causes carbon build up. The lubrication part isn't the problem, the problem is what happens when it leaves the engine. Is it burned completely? Is it smokeless? Does it leave massive amounts of carbon? That's what you have to ask yourself.
10-20-04, 07:30 PM
#21
Lives on the Forum
Why do we go through this every couple of weeks, lol???
When I first heard about using MMO, I decided to look further into it. Evidently a lot of guys have not dug into it deep enough to read the MSDS sheets on it. The MSDS is basically a list of ingredients, possible chemical reactions, first aid if swallowed/ingested/smoked/whatever...The main ingredient in MMO turns out to be mineral spirits, which is an aromatic hydrocarbon. Yes, it will burn. Yes, it will clean, after all it's a solvent in its purest form. What it doesn't do as far as I'm concerned is lubricate an internal combustion engine proficiently. Secondary ingredients include naptha aromatic hydrocarbons, again, not exactly a lubricant. I played with this stuff during my rebuild, figuring Bruce Turrentine knew what he was doing. I'll never use it again. It's too thin for a film or shear lubricant, and the capillary action it displays pissed me off when it ran into the combustion seal areas.
As far as the premix ratio, the best happy medium spot between fuel economy (which goes WAY up at a 85:1 ratio and below), lubrication, and the blowby problem (premix/gas getting into the oil) seems to be somewhere between 105:1 and 120:1. I've been experimenting with ratios for over a year now, and am currently at the 120:1 ratio, but the gas mileage is going up a bit (as in worse), so I'm tweaking it back down a little. My best guess at this point is 110:1
When I first heard about using MMO, I decided to look further into it. Evidently a lot of guys have not dug into it deep enough to read the MSDS sheets on it. The MSDS is basically a list of ingredients, possible chemical reactions, first aid if swallowed/ingested/smoked/whatever...The main ingredient in MMO turns out to be mineral spirits, which is an aromatic hydrocarbon. Yes, it will burn. Yes, it will clean, after all it's a solvent in its purest form. What it doesn't do as far as I'm concerned is lubricate an internal combustion engine proficiently. Secondary ingredients include naptha aromatic hydrocarbons, again, not exactly a lubricant. I played with this stuff during my rebuild, figuring Bruce Turrentine knew what he was doing. I'll never use it again. It's too thin for a film or shear lubricant, and the capillary action it displays pissed me off when it ran into the combustion seal areas.
As far as the premix ratio, the best happy medium spot between fuel economy (which goes WAY up at a 85:1 ratio and below), lubrication, and the blowby problem (premix/gas getting into the oil) seems to be somewhere between 105:1 and 120:1. I've been experimenting with ratios for over a year now, and am currently at the 120:1 ratio, but the gas mileage is going up a bit (as in worse), so I'm tweaking it back down a little. My best guess at this point is 110:1
10-20-04, 07:38 PM
#22
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Bwahahahahahaha, I've been using MMO as heavy premix in my engine for the past few hundred miles. I mean 50:1 heavy, or even more. It did a hell of a job unsticking some dirty apex and side seals that I was too lazy to clean when I threw my latest motor back together after some porting changes. My injectors work just as awesome as before, no 4k rpm hesitation, no rough idle. It actually idles and holds 1.5k rpm at light throttle with barely a pop, unlike before. MMO is radical, I'm going to try using it as premix in 150:1 w/o my OMP.
One other thing: spraying carb cleaner down a vacuum line when the engine is at 3k rpm also helped get my seals working properly again. I had low compression on one rotor due to me being lazy and not cleaning off the old carbon from the RA apex seals (which looked great other than that, if anyone is wondering about RA apex seals).
One other thing: spraying carb cleaner down a vacuum line when the engine is at 3k rpm also helped get my seals working properly again. I had low compression on one rotor due to me being lazy and not cleaning off the old carbon from the RA apex seals (which looked great other than that, if anyone is wondering about RA apex seals).
10-20-04, 09:39 PM
#23
Ho's and Cadillac Doors
Originally Posted by WAYNE88N/A
Why do we go through this every couple of weeks, lol???
When I first heard about using MMO, I decided to look further into it. Evidently a lot of guys have not dug into it deep enough to read the MSDS sheets on it. The MSDS is basically a list of ingredients, possible chemical reactions, first aid if swallowed/ingested/smoked/whatever...The main ingredient in MMO turns out to be mineral spirits, which is an aromatic hydrocarbon. Yes, it will burn. Yes, it will clean, after all it's a solvent in its purest form. What it doesn't do as far as I'm concerned is lubricate an internal combustion engine proficiently. Secondary ingredients include naptha aromatic hydrocarbons, again, not exactly a lubricant. I played with this stuff during my rebuild, figuring Bruce Turrentine knew what he was doing. I'll never use it again. It's too thin for a film or shear lubricant, and the capillary action it displays pissed me off when it ran into the combustion seal areas.
As far as the premix ratio, the best happy medium spot between fuel economy (which goes WAY up at a 85:1 ratio and below), lubrication, and the blowby problem (premix/gas getting into the oil) seems to be somewhere between 105:1 and 120:1. I've been experimenting with ratios for over a year now, and am currently at the 120:1 ratio, but the gas mileage is going up a bit (as in worse), so I'm tweaking it back down a little. My best guess at this point is 110:1
When I first heard about using MMO, I decided to look further into it. Evidently a lot of guys have not dug into it deep enough to read the MSDS sheets on it. The MSDS is basically a list of ingredients, possible chemical reactions, first aid if swallowed/ingested/smoked/whatever...The main ingredient in MMO turns out to be mineral spirits, which is an aromatic hydrocarbon. Yes, it will burn. Yes, it will clean, after all it's a solvent in its purest form. What it doesn't do as far as I'm concerned is lubricate an internal combustion engine proficiently. Secondary ingredients include naptha aromatic hydrocarbons, again, not exactly a lubricant. I played with this stuff during my rebuild, figuring Bruce Turrentine knew what he was doing. I'll never use it again. It's too thin for a film or shear lubricant, and the capillary action it displays pissed me off when it ran into the combustion seal areas.
As far as the premix ratio, the best happy medium spot between fuel economy (which goes WAY up at a 85:1 ratio and below), lubrication, and the blowby problem (premix/gas getting into the oil) seems to be somewhere between 105:1 and 120:1. I've been experimenting with ratios for over a year now, and am currently at the 120:1 ratio, but the gas mileage is going up a bit (as in worse), so I'm tweaking it back down a little. My best guess at this point is 110:1
How did you find an MSDS on it? Where I work all of the Material Safety Data is more or less classified within the company, unless a supplier needs it.
10-20-04, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 2ndGen.rocket
How did you find an MSDS on it? Where I work all of the Material Safety Data is more or less classified within the company, unless a supplier needs it.
EDIT: This is the copy supplied to walmart by Marvel Oil Co. @ UPS we use a 3rd party to handle all of our MSDS requests, I believe its 3M that handles it. I could call them for a faxed copy of the MMO MSDS so long as they have it on file as a product UPS uses.
And what kind of company makes MSDS knowledge classified? Its ******* safety, they shove this **** down our throats at UPS... nothing classified about it. I'd be scared to work for a company who doesn't make the MSDS info known.
Last edited by Kenteth; 10-20-04 at 09:59 PM.
10-20-04, 09:52 PM
#25
Lives on the Forum
Very good, lol...
When you work with the stuff I work with, the MSDS knowledge is mandatory...
Like you, I found that on the internet too
***Knowledge is power***
When you work with the stuff I work with, the MSDS knowledge is mandatory...
Like you, I found that on the internet too
***Knowledge is power***
Last edited by WAYNE88N/A; 10-20-04 at 09:55 PM.