jmkogut

I'm slowly buying suspension parts for my S4. I got the Tein S.Tech springs (1.5" drop, spring rates for Front = 7.8kgf/mm or 436lbs/in, Rear = 5.8kgf/mm or 324lbs/in. Drop for Front = -36mm or 1.4in, Rear = -33mm or -1.3in (https://www.rx7club.com/suspension-wheels-tires-brakes-20/tein-s-tech-spring-284552/)

So my camber's going to be off. I'm not a bitch about tires or tread, I'll end up buying new tires every 6-8 months or so anyway.

1) Is a rear camber link actually necessary? Why not camber plates instead? I know they're two completely different things, but don't they achieve the same goals?

2) I wouldn't have handling issues, would I? I'm doing all this in hopes of improving handling, not reducing it.

(btw, the springs are going to be paired with a set of KYB AGX struts. I know, they're on the low end, but I've heard good reviews, and they're better than my original equipment)

Thanks!

RacerXtreme7

iTrader: (2)

There are no camber plates for the rear, only a camber adjustment rod (raises/lowers subframe for camber adjustment) and the front will be fine as far as camber goes after lowering (struts don't have a lot of camber gain in compression). But if you want adjustability, the front can use camber plates or cam/eccentric "crash" bolts. The rear is adjustment rod, or the more expensive route (but better left to right adjustment) individual camber links. Your going to need the rear adjustment, the front you don't have to have, but its a good idea anyway. Make sure to get the car aliagned after you change out the struts and springs.

~Mike........

~Mike.........

jmkogut

Alright, so basically a rear camber link is necessary.

What does not having it cause? Lack of grip?

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

as you lower the rear suspension it toes in and gains negative camber.

the toe is adjustable, camber is not stock. hence the camber link

basically rear camber varies car to car, so where you end up after your drop depends on where it started with. some cars may not need it.

too much rear camber rear wear the inside of the rear tires, and not have as much grip.

jmkogut

Alright, I guess I'll just install the suspension, take some photos and ask for any suggestions. I'll try to take it easy no touging.. sad.

Turbo II Rotor

iTrader: (2)

Dude, the cheapest bar is $110 + shipping. Do it right or don't do it at all.

http://mazdatrix.com/getprice.asp?partnum=14008

jmkogut

It's not me being cheap. It's more along the lines of is it needed or not. If I need one, I'll get it. That's no problem.

I was actually looking at the Corksport one. (Which is a few bills more). How does the Mazdatrix one compare to Corksports?

Turbo II Rotor

iTrader: (2)

Looks way overpriced. I have the red alum one. It's on the car adjustable and light weight.

http://mazdatrix.com/h6_86-92.htm

eage8

iTrader: (9)

you don't really need an adjustment bar. specially if you're just doing springs.

I have JIC coilovers, they're lowered a decent bit, and I have negative 3 degrees of rear camber and I'm not complaining. it handles nicely. the adjustable rear camber link is overboard for just springs and some ok shocks, I would take the extra money and get a better set of springs and shocks, I've heard some bad reviews of the s techs

jmkogut

I'll agree, they are on the low end of the spectrum, but I looked up what I could and I haven't found any complaints about the Teins.

I am doing more than springs though, I'm also installing KYB AGX struts to replace the OEM blown struts.

While I agree, this combination isn't for maximum performance, it's definitely an improvement over my 20 year old equipment.

EDIT: I've already purchased both the struts and springs

Black91n/a

The rear gains lots of camber in roll compared to the front, if you start out with lots then when the car rolls, it'll have tons of camber and will cause handling issues. Besides, it'll reduce straight line traction (accel and braking) as well as causing increased wear on the tires.

Preventing the premature wear on the tires will easily offset the $100 purchase price of the camber rod.

jmkogut

Awesome, it's settled. I'm looking at $150 for the red aluminum camber link that can be adjusted without removing it (the $100 one has to be removed to adjust). I'll be sure to update my buildup thread when I get it installed.

MaczPayne

iTrader: (5)

Ground control sells one that's on-car adjustable for under 100 shipped.

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

I just ordered the mazdatrix ones that allow each side to be adjusted seperatly.
Having just installed RB springs and AGX shocks only one side of the car has negative camber. One side of the car also had toe in so I ordered the rear steer eliminators.

If I had the bar then I could not adjust each side, the bar adjusts both sides at the same time.

Dont take pictures- take the car to the alighment shop and let them tell you how far off the car is. I listen to the guy who makes a living doing alighments, he is very good at what he does so you should find a GOOD local shop. He did the front and told me how far off the rear was- this week everything should be 100%.

jmkogut

Alright, I guess I'm on the search for a local alignment shop.

I don't live in the biggest town.. this will be hard.

TweakGames

iTrader: (3)

we have quite a few alignment shops here. A couple that use some pretty cool laser technology on each wheel independently. Now sure how competitive you are going, but that is what I do before an event day.

jmkogut

Could you give me names of any shops? I haven't heard of a local alignment place yet.

I'm not doing any of this for competition, it's more for a daily driver on the weekdays and something fun for the twisties on the weekends. When snow be comin, I'll keep it as a daily only. The real fun comes this spring, I'll be looking for a TII, or TII engine.

jmkogut

So I found this image on an old thread when searching about camber a little more (https://www.rx7club.com/nw-rx-7-forum-33/help-me-figure-out-camber-780734/)

The thread states that the single link doesn't do jack **** for when you're lowering the car more than an inch (I'm going 1.5") with worn bushings and other unknown factors on a 20 year old car, each individual rear tire will have different camber, and I need individual links anyway. I'm fine with that, money isn't a problem.

What is a problem, however, is that it looks like it's going to be super hard to install them. Has anyone else installed individual rear camber links? How much of a hassle is this?

TweakGames

iTrader: (3)

If you are doing this all just for a little fun on the "twisties", and nothing to do with motorsports, you are wasting a LOT of money. Dropping the car 1.5 inches won't be doing much (you most likely won't be dropping it that much from what you have now if you have old worn out suspension.) It just seems somewhat like overkill to go spend 220$+ on individual camber control, go through all the hassles, get it aligned back to an almost stock setting since you are going to be daily driving it, and then go drive a little faster around a corner. BY ALL means, do what you love, it's your money, and your car, it is just hard for me to justify it. Putting that 200$ into some upgraded tires would most likely give you the best return. Just my opinion.

Get your new suspension on, see how it works out, and go from there. I bet you will be more than happy. To much information makes us worry about everything and kills our blissful ignorance. (We are happy when we don't know we aren't happy or could be happier)

Just my opinion.

jmkogut

mk, that's my primary problem. I read soo much that often times I overthink things.

Also, I did buy brand new tires less than 200 miles ago.

The car, in the future, will be a track car, but for the moment it's a fun weekend vehicle.

TweakGames

iTrader: (3)

Yeup, I know exactly what you mean, I'm always thinking about little things that really don't matter. If I never would have known that it could be a problem, or was even upgradeable/changeable, I most likely never would have noticed the "problem" to begin with. The grass is always greener on the other side, but if there is no grass on the other side you can be happy with your grass. lol. Throw your suspension on and be happy for the winter season.

jmkogut

Alright, I don't expect many tire wear issues to show up on snow anyway.

I've decided it'll be a good idea to get the camber links in back and plates up front anyway. but I'll probably save that for a spring-time job. I imagine I won't be able to drive the car for a month or so. I hate removing 20 year old bolts..

MaczPayne

iTrader: (5)

You're only limited to so much adjustment using the individual camber links. Too much and the bushings on the trailing arms will bind. The only solution to that is to replace the bushing with spherical bearings.

The best thing to do is to use both the individual adjusters, and the single adjuster in combination, to reduce the risk of binding.

AWR also sells the individual adjusters, and those don't have to be greased.

Black91n/a

You took the words right out of my mouth. The binding issue will be worse with stiffer bushings. When using the camber link and individual ones together, start out with the individual links set to the factory length, adjust the camber with the single link so that the average of the two sides is what you want, then even it out side to side with the individual links. Keep that adjustment to the bare minimum and it will give you the least amount of friction in your rear arms.