HAILERS

On a series five it's pin 1C,. Pin 1C, as you look at the wire side of the plug, is on the top row, second from the far right.

I eventually realized using a resistor to do the job did not work right. Once the engine got cold, then you'd have Cold starting issues.

So I bought a Simple Voltage Switch from JayCar in Australia. I used the water thermo sensor switch for the input voltage and set it at approx 120 degrees. So any temp above that figure, the *Start* map in the ECU was not used. The AFM signal was used above 120 degrees. It worked like a champ.

What it is, is that if using the AFM signal for fuel during Start, the fuel amount injected is MUCH less than if the*START* map in the ECU is used. Much less meant/means quicker starts when the engine is HOT. Once the water temp got below 120, then the start signal from 3B was used once more for cold starting.

Since then I bought a RTEK 2.0 that has a system much like the series five. On a series five you just hold the pedal down to the floor and the fuel injectors will not open as you Start the engine.

It seems to me, that on a series five if you hold the pedal down too long, then there might be NO fuel in the rotor chamber and your cranking for no results. But if that happens you could raise your foot all the way off the pedal when cranking, and then slowly push the pesal down. When the pedal is all the way up and your cranking fuel should be injected, and then as you slowly push the pedal down, eventually the fuel being injected won't be injected anymore and eventually the residue in the rotor will fire up.

ANyway, with a series five, if the TPS (pedal related so to speak) is within range, then you should not need to be disconnecting pin 1C. So don't do it on a series five.

Actually I prefer my Simple Voltage switch compared to the hold the pedal down method.

EDIT: But, tell you what. Find pin 1C and pull it out of the plug (after the engine is HOT), and drive it that way the rest of the day. See if that does not work better. You can always reinsert the wire back in the plug if it does not work out for you.

It probably will work better with the 1C out. BUT once the engine gets cold, it might very well be a bit hard to start cold.

HAILERS

1C would be a Black wire with a Red stripe and on the top row, far right, second from the end.

Get a Jewlers screwdriver from the local drug store/food store, and use the smallest common/blade screwdriver to remove the wire. Stick the screw driver in the part of the plug that mates with the ECu. Push the tab inside down as you pull the wire out. Tape the wire end. It'll only have 12vdc on it when you go to Start.

demontwig

Did the rtek solve your hot start issues?

HAILERS

Yes/No. It works like a series five car (RTEK). During the Start sequence, if the rpms are under 500 rpm and the ECU sees 12vdc from the Start circuit, it uses the Start Map inside the ECU to deliver fuel based on water temp.

If the engine does not start and appears flooded, the pedal is depressed so the TPS outputs something like 65 percent full open, then the injectors will stop delivering and the excess fuel will be shoved out the exaust and once down to an acceptable level, will ignite and the car will start.

So, Yes is the answer in that it will CLEAR a flood.

But I've found that the simple voltage switch I had installed did/does better. IF the water temp is over 120 F, the START signal (12vdc signal to the ECU) is disabled and the ECU now depends on the AFM for fuel delivery instead of the *Start Map * inside the ECU. The AFM delivers much less fuel this way and there is no *flood* to begin with. There's less cranking of the starter using the simple voltage switch in my Humble opinion.

The Simple Voltage Switch is not so simple. It needs to be soldered together and the trip voltage has to be adjusted to Open the circuit at around 100-120 degrees F. Plus it came from Jaycar in Austalia. I'm sure there's a kit made in the USA,...............somewhere.

A simple mechanical switch in the *Start* signal wire on pin 1C of a series five or 3B of a series four will do the same thing. But I decided to not do this and installed a Simple Voltage Switch instead so I do/did not have to do squat to start the car. With the manual switch you have to make sure it's in the *normal* position for cold starts. *Normal* meaning the circuit for the start circuit at pin 1C is *made* as it is when stock.

But it seems with a mechanical switch you'd only have to switch it once a day. After the car starts and is hot it could be in the *open* position for the rest of the day as long as the engine was still warm/hot.

Frankly speaking, in one car that has the RTEK, I removed my Simple Voltage Switch not more than a week ago (clearing up the clutter in the car) and I've been having to hold the pedal all the way down lately when the engine is hot. Hmmm. Time to do a reinstall or make a simple mechanical switch to cut the circuit at pin 3B (series four car).

demontwig

So i hear that the new upgrade for the 2.0 should have the ability to lean out the start map I believe. That should solve the problem, correct?

HAILERS

No. It can lean out the mixture from idle and up, not the Start Map.

It can unflood a series four much like a series five, by holding the pedal to the floor. When the ECU sees the TPS reading over a certain percentage and the START signal at 3B of the ECU, it will stop injecting fuel to the rotors, thereby unflooding the engine.

No, it cannot lean out the START mixuture.

You can enter a post in the RTEK section of this site and ask Hendrix if what I said is right or wrong. I'm wrong several times a day and this might be one of them.

demontwig

I know about the unflooding procedure, and I'm glad it incorporates it. I thought I read about the ability to lean out start maps, but I might have just generalized the info to include the start map, not just the normal map...

Toxindude

Okay I dunno if this is hot start or not ? I can start the car cold starts right up in a half a crank . Then after driving it for a while then parking and come back to start is a few hours later the car is really hard to start I have to hold the pedal down and crank it for 5 to 10 seconds and even that dont work somtimes . Then if that doenst work ill have to pull the fuse from the engine and clear out the flooding then put the fuse back in and the car will start right up . If this is a hot start case will the quote above fix my problem ?

HAILERS

88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888 888888888888
If this is a hot start case will the quote above fix my problem 88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888 88888888888888

Most likely.

Actually I looked at the RTEK2.0 site the last week and much to my surprise, they have a newer firmware version of the 2.0 that includes a function where you can select the amount of fuel delivered during START. Kinda neat. They say that if one has the old firmware version 1.0, that in the near, near future you will be able to get/buy a *chip* to swap out on your older RTEK2.0 so it'll have the same ability.

I like that better than the original version for series four that aped the series five by holding the pedal to the floor and unflooding the engine. That method never agreed with me because I just don't like spinning things around with no lubricating oil on the seals.

Page 19 or this download: http://www.pocketlogger.com/instruct...cketlogger.pdf

imloggedin

bumping because more people need to read this

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

a much simpler fix would be to utilize the stock water temp switch in the thermostat neck to feed into a pair of relays to open/break the circuit to 3B

HAILERS

Last time I looked the aux fans temp switch operates at something like 209*. It'd be ineffective at that temp. The 3B needs to open a lot earlier than that.

Do to Man Made Global Warming (sarcasm here), I've not had any hot start problems for the last year plus due to the unusually mild summers in Texas for the last couple of years. I removed the kit I made over a year ago.

Due to Man Made Global Warming, the people up in OK and Missouri won't have hot start problems due to the icing conditions up there.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

just trying to figure out some easier methods without having to special order any relays.

not sure that that switch opens that late but i could be wrong, there is other coolant temp switches available for most imports that do the same job that would be needed and would fit that spot easy enough.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

back from the dead...

I was thinking about this hot start problem recently. How many people have hot start problems, then completely replace their thermosensor with a brand new one and still have the problem?

When I was on stock ECU for my T2, I would have hot start problems. I would get to full operating temperature, stop the car somewhere and go to store for 15 minutes, then come back and it was flooded.

Interestingly enough, when I switched to a Power FC I immediately noticed that my water thermosensor was WAY off. It read too cold compared to my aftermarket gauge. It should have read around 90 Celcius (180ish degrees) and it would read 30! And if the ECU thinks the engine is still not warmed up, it will inject more fuel and potentially cause it to flood. I've also seen an inaccurate thermosensor on an FD. Has anyone else noticed inaccuracies on say their Rtek 2.0 ? Now the start maps are adjustable in a Power FC and I've never had any flooding problems since I switched to it. But that same inaccurate sensor was on my stock ECU.

How many people have put a brand new thermosensor in and still had these problems? Sorry if it was buried in this old thread and I missed it. I think a lot of times we talk about a thermosensor that is disconnected, or otherwise completely dead, but not many people recognize that the thermosensor can be fully hooked up and APPEAR to be working correctly and still be wrong.

The FSM has a voltage scale for the thermosensor but IMO it is not a precise enough to really tell you how correct it is without reading the ECU (through an Rtek or Power FC, or whatever else, and comparing it to another gauge). You can get a new thermosensor for like $40 at the dealer or even cheapr at a parts store. I think more people should go ahead and replace their thermosensor first to see if that helps, because it can be bad (inaccurate) but honestly you would never know.

EDIT: I looked back through the thread a little bit and there is some discussion of bad thermosensors. Let's just say I disagree that a bad thermosensor is easy to diagnose. I mean we can say it "should" be x volts under x conditions, but it's hard to know exactly how many degrees C the ECU is seeing if you are on a stock ECU with no datalogging capabilities. And even if it's "only" off a few degrees, that could potentially make a significant difference in how much cranking fuel the engine gets.

HAILERS

A water thermosensor will read b/t 0.4vdc and 0.5vdc when the engine is hot. It's as simple as that. Read at the ECU. All you have to do is have a cold engine, backprobe the signal from the sensor, start the engine, watch the voltage go down to approx .5vdc when hot. Approx 180*.

dennis blackstone

hailers could hotstart be a week spark and too much fuel

driftingmyFC

subscribed

londonmazda

iTrader: (2)

Awesome, this really helps out us guys with all the rats nest stuff gone.

abingham

Alright I am having this same problem, symptom for symptom. The problem is Im not an electrical engineer, im not an idiot either. Is there a simple way to do this, if someone could kinda give me a short step by step. If not or if im just bieng annoying, let me know and ill figure it out one way or another. Im just tired of this problem and want to get it out of the way before the next one comes. I have an 84 gsl-se in case it matters. thanks alot.

AGURDI590

Okay ..but what about the S5? would I cut the 1C Pin out ?

satch

iTrader: (1)

You would rather depin the wire from the ECU plug then to cut it outright. Not sure which part of Florida you reside in, but if it's a part where it cools down a fair amount, such as the nothern part, then you'll eventually have a problem starting the car due to too little fuel trying to start a cold engine.

AGURDI590

Sorry I missed the top thread ..Ok it is the 1C pin on the S5 ..Hailers can you send me the wiring diagram you used to set up the simple voltage switch ?

satch

iTrader: (1)

It's 1C for the S5.

AGURDI590

Okay I ordered the simple voltage switch and will be operating it from the 1 to 5 volt signal of my AEM temperature gauge. In the meantime I spliced into 1C pinout and added a kill switch to manually shut down this wire for hot starts. Works like a champ!! No more embarrassing hot start issues!! Thanks Hailers!

bigolsen

iTrader: (1)

Actually it's a voltgage switch that incorporates a relay in it. I bought it from JAYCAR
The link for this switch no longer works. I wanna do this mod soon and wanna do it right... Anybody have a write up on this yet. My car is a S4 turbo...Thanks.