Lightened flywheel shutter
08-03-05, 11:32 PM
#26
Junior Member
Originally Posted by buttsjim
^
Thanks for your answer. I understand about limiting windup in the drivetrain, and used an engine torque brace to prevent that in my own car. Nevertheless, I remain unconvinced with your explanation of the clutch springs' effect.
I see them absorbing and storing energy under high torque loads, and releasing that energy when the torque load decreases, which should smooth out the windup effects. Also, I remember (30 years ago) seeing the old style chrome bumpers vibrating up and down on cars with clutch chatter. That tells me that the chatter is also on the parts of the drive train aft of the clutch, in addition to the engine. Springs would certainly smooth that effect.
Thanks for your answer. I understand about limiting windup in the drivetrain, and used an engine torque brace to prevent that in my own car. Nevertheless, I remain unconvinced with your explanation of the clutch springs' effect.
I see them absorbing and storing energy under high torque loads, and releasing that energy when the torque load decreases, which should smooth out the windup effects. Also, I remember (30 years ago) seeing the old style chrome bumpers vibrating up and down on cars with clutch chatter. That tells me that the chatter is also on the parts of the drive train aft of the clutch, in addition to the engine. Springs would certainly smooth that effect.
08-04-05, 01:15 AM
#28
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Originally Posted by buttsjim
^
Thanks for your answer. I understand about limiting windup in the drivetrain, and used an engine torque brace to prevent that in my own car. Nevertheless, I remain unconvinced with your explanation of the clutch springs' effect.
I see them absorbing and storing energy under high torque loads, and releasing that energy when the torque load decreases, which should smooth out the windup effects. Also, I remember (30 years ago) seeing the old style chrome bumpers vibrating up and down on cars with clutch chatter. That tells me that the chatter is also on the parts of the drive train aft of the clutch, in addition to the engine. Springs would certainly smooth that effect.
Thanks for your answer. I understand about limiting windup in the drivetrain, and used an engine torque brace to prevent that in my own car. Nevertheless, I remain unconvinced with your explanation of the clutch springs' effect.
I see them absorbing and storing energy under high torque loads, and releasing that energy when the torque load decreases, which should smooth out the windup effects. Also, I remember (30 years ago) seeing the old style chrome bumpers vibrating up and down on cars with clutch chatter. That tells me that the chatter is also on the parts of the drive train aft of the clutch, in addition to the engine. Springs would certainly smooth that effect.
The sprung center hub doesn't do anything for engagement as the springs are much to stiff to be compressed. The sprung hub is to reduce shock loading in the drivetrain. Unless you engage the clutch at high RPM and apply a lot of torque the springs are just along for the ride. Sidestepping the clutch for a drag launch will make those springs work.
08-04-05, 03:09 AM
#29
Lives on the Forum
Originally Posted by ACTman
???? Clutches are designed to slip, especially the puck discs. Actually it is better to break in a puck disc by slipping it under pretty high load, especially on our older friction material. If you are too gentle the pucks don't lap in and just remain rough and cause more wear to the flywheel.
I was told this was a big no-no!
The copper puck material gets "more aggressive" as heat builds, right?
If this is true, doesn't excessive slipping cause the pucks to eat into flywheel / PP?
Or is that all wrong also?
But if the flywheel is getting eaten by the pucks, it's a lousy flywheel. Some of the flywheels out there use really soft surfaces like just plain jane 1018 steel or something that doesn't put up to agressive materials.
I can't comment on the composition on what Racing Beat uses in their flywheels, but it can't be that bad?
Any comments on those chrome-moly flywheels which seem to be all the rage?
-Ted
08-04-05, 03:11 AM
#30
Lives on the Forum
Originally Posted by ACTman
Besides the benefits copper or other sintered materials of having high friction to hold more power, they also have high heat capacity. Where do you think the heat comes from... slipping! I used to say that puck clutches don't need a break in until we did some clutch testing on the dyno. We were measuring torque while the clutch is being slipped. We found that if the material is allowed to bed in a bit then more material made contact and it held more power.
To answer your other question, yeah, I work for ACT. You asked where am I getting this "BS" from? From 28 years in performance clutches, test results, race car experience, studying engineering data, but I still have a lot to learn. It is sometimes difficult to explain things in a few paragraphs on a public forum but that doesn't mean it is BS.
(...)
Feel free to email me for more information at dstarksen@advancedclutch.com.
(...)
Feel free to email me for more information at dstarksen@advancedclutch.com.
Got tired of playing with Hondas, Supras, and DSM's?
-Ted
08-04-05, 10:12 PM
#31
Junior Member
Originally Posted by RETed
So you're saying we should slip the copper puck disc just as much as an organic one?
I was told this was a big no-no!
The copper puck material gets "more aggressive" as heat builds, right?
If this is true, doesn't excessive slipping cause the pucks to eat into flywheel / PP?
Or is that all wrong also?
This is with a Racing Beat lightened flywheel on a 1987 FC turbo.
I can't comment on the composition on what Racing Beat uses in their flywheels, but it can't be that bad?
Any comments on those chrome-moly flywheels which seem to be all the rage?
-Ted
I was told this was a big no-no!
The copper puck material gets "more aggressive" as heat builds, right?
If this is true, doesn't excessive slipping cause the pucks to eat into flywheel / PP?
Or is that all wrong also?
This is with a Racing Beat lightened flywheel on a 1987 FC turbo.
I can't comment on the composition on what Racing Beat uses in their flywheels, but it can't be that bad?
Any comments on those chrome-moly flywheels which seem to be all the rage?
-Ted
I don't know about RB flywheels and what they use either. On other applications I have seen puck discs worn down to nothing on the aluminum flywheel side because of too soft of material for the insert, while the pressure plate side of the disc is hardly broken in. The same flywheel however will probably last perfectly fine on a street disc, so you I guess you could blame the friction material if you wanted. Actually it doesn't matter though, soft steel and copper/ceramic don't go together. I could comment on chrome-moly flywheels, but since that is what we make, it would be biased. I think I made comment on this on another thread yesterday. Found it: https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.php?t=448630
Last edited by ACTman; 08-04-05 at 10:16 PM.
08-11-05, 03:30 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by ACTman
You should only slip the disc the amount that makes sense whether copper or organic. What I am saying is that the copper material can take the heat from slipping better. We found that our current material is fairly consistent as it gets hot. It increases friction slightly, while you can expect a typical organic material will loose friction as it gets hot. Of course different friction materials perform differently.
EDIT: is it that hard to launch soft on a 6 puck where you have to get used to it!
Last edited by darkphantom; 08-11-05 at 03:37 PM.
08-11-05, 04:22 PM
#33
Junior Member
Originally Posted by darkphantom
BUT WOULDNT that effect the flywheel somehow! I myself have a 6 puck that i will installed and im more conserned about the 11 pound flywheel more than that clutch!
EDIT: is it that hard to launch soft on a 6 puck where you have to get used to it!
EDIT: is it that hard to launch soft on a 6 puck where you have to get used to it!
Keep in mind that our puck discs hold about 30% more than a street disc so that extra friction does tend to equate to more wear. On a flywheel used with a street disc, you may get .001" wear after a clutch is worn out, while you may get .004" flywheel wear on the puck. Don't flame me if other experiences are different. These are not actual test result numbers since there are too many variables, just an idea of what you should expect to encounter. The point is that normal wear is usually minimal. Also keep in mind that flywheels don't usually have to be resurfaced because of wear, but because of warpage or heat spots. Any flywheel with cracks should be replaced.
08-11-05, 08:14 PM
#34
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ok but what about the other question i asked on how hard is it to move the car on a 6 puck without stalling. someone said you have to have a car length distance from you and the person in front!
08-12-05, 10:07 AM
#35
Junior Member
Originally Posted by darkphantom
ok but what about the other question i asked on how hard is it to move the car on a 6 puck without stalling. someone said you have to have a car length distance from you and the person in front!
08-12-05, 10:45 AM
#37
Junior Member
Originally Posted by RETed
Gee Dirk, when did you make CEO?
Got too much time on your hands so you go perusing forums like this now?
Still ignoring my question?
-Ted
Got too much time on your hands so you go perusing forums like this now?
Still ignoring my question?
-Ted
Speak to the hand!...
Just kidding.
I thought I answered most of them. I ignored some of the less intellegent questions like "who the *** are you?", "Where are you getting this bull**** from???" and "Got tired of playing with Hondas, Supras, and DSM's?". I figured it didn't have much to do with the subject of the thread.
To answer your latest question, I like going onto forums because I like people and if I can help them or have a healthy discussion, that's great.
BTW: I am not the CEO. I sucked at it, so I fired myself and hired someone who could do the job better. Long story.
08-12-05, 10:57 AM
#38
Lives on the Forum
Originally Posted by ACTman
To answer your latest question, I like going onto forums because I like people and if I can help them or have a healthy discussion, that's great.
BTW: I am not the CEO. I sucked at it, so I fired myself and hired someone who could do the job better. Long story.
It still lists you as President and CEO.
Weren't you just a tech when you first started???
-Ted
08-12-05, 11:10 AM
#39
Junior Member
Originally Posted by RETed
Would love to ask a ton of questions, but it'll just dirty up this thread even more...
The website needs to be changed then.
It still lists you as President and CEO.
Weren't you just a tech when you first started???
-Ted
The website needs to be changed then.
It still lists you as President and CEO.
Weren't you just a tech when you first started???
-Ted
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