Just finished rebuild but wont start MOTOR GURU HELP
06-19-08, 03:41 AM
#1
Just finished rebuild but wont start MOTOR GURU HELP
I finally finished the rebuild I used books i borrowed from the libray, changed new housings, new rotors, new FD apex seals, side seals, springs, oil seals, water jackets, and all gaskets. Did a large street port, and exhaust port polish. I learned alot about rotary engines after doing this, now i fully understand my motor inside out! At first it seems complicated about the apex seals and springs,and eccentric shaft and counterweight but now its simple... anys, I cleaned all the parts, droppe dthe motor in , hooked it up to the tranny, and all the wires, and maifolds, and turbo, acv, vacuum,emissions, fuel rails, injectors, wiring harness, oil lines, water pump, oil mettering lines and everything looks hella nice in the brand new painted engine bay. At first it wouldnt crank, and ifound out itwas my starter, so i took itapart and cleaned itand shaved the grounds, and itworks strong now. It cranks but wont start...I unplugged the fuel lines, and fuel shot in myface lol, so theres fuel going in for sure[should have depressurized teh fuel before unplugging lol].. I checked for spark, had myfriend hold the spark plug while its connected to thepower coil checked both leading and trailing both sparks up strong. Tested the alternator, it seems good. CHecked the hoses,the fuses, its good.. man...COuld it be a vacuum leak, or possibly Ididnt hook up the vacuum emissions right? I mean theres fuel and spark, but just no start, so it might have to do with vacuum.All electrical works fine..Theres no sign of starts, not even alil bit of engine sputter. The engine has good compression,its freaken hard to turn the flywheel after teh rebuild, its strong, and makes anice prauhh sound after you turn the flywheel.. hmm im gunna take the UIM off tomarow and recheck the vacuum..and wiring....man..soo saaad today....I did a lil bit of searching, maybe it could be timming from the crank angle sensor?Whats the right timming for it, so Ican check? Umm what othe rreasons could there be guys? hellppp thankkssss, IM anooob.....first time rebuilding, an ddropping in rotary...
06-19-08, 04:07 AM
#2
Remove your spark plugs, remove the EGI COMP fuse under your hood.
Get in your car and turn your key to turn your engine over. Let the engine spin, and listen carefully to the sound coming out of the spark-plug holes. You want an even and STRONG "psh-psh-psh-psh-psh". Crank the engine for 10 seconds and listen for any major flat-spots or irregular pulses.
While you're cranking the engine, you should ALSO BE CHECKING FOR OIL PRESSURE. You should never start a fresh-rebuild without making sure that your oil-pressure is good. Crank the engine for 10-seconds and let it rest for 10-seconds. Repeat this step 3-5 times or until you've verified that you have good oil pressure.
If the engine sounds good, and the engine has good oil-pressure, then you should "prime" the engine for it's first start by injecting several "squirts" or ounces of automatic transmission fluid (ATF) or a (light) engine oil into both lower spark-plug holes before reinstalling the spark-plugs.
Make sure the spark plugs are new, and have been cleaned off. Also smell them to verify that fuel has actually been INJECTED into the engine. Another way to know if fuel has actually been injected (like you think) is just to watch as you crank the engine over. There should be some moderate fuel-smoke/vapor coming out of the spark-plug holes as you first start cranking the engine over with the plugs removed (since you tried starting it already, and have theoretically already injected fuel into the engine).
If you're still not sure, you can reinstall the EGI COMP fuse, and then crank the engine over for 3 seconds and you'll know really quickly if your injectors are firing.
Fuel smoke/vapor will start pouring out of your plug-holes. Don't do this if you don't have to, because you'll just have to "unflood" the engine again to clear the excess fuel, and then add more ATF oil to aid the "sealing" for when you actually try to start it.
Verify that your AFM is correctly installed and plugged in. Also look for any MAJOR vac. leaks from your turbo, intake and intercooler. Verify that your brake-booster line is hooked up.
Check EVERY spark-plug wire individually to make sure it sparks when the engine is cranked. Make sure you're not injecting fuel into your engine while you're checking for spark though--remove the EGI INJ? fuse (I think?), although I've just unplugged the yellow plug attached to the steering column under the dash. The EGI COMP fuse will also disable spark, so you can't pull that fuse when checking for spark (while preventing fuel-injection).
If you have a compression tester, check your engine compression. It's likely your compression is slightly low, and you will have to unflood your engine and re-inject ATF fluid into your spark-plug holes several times before you can get the engine to start.
Get in your car and turn your key to turn your engine over. Let the engine spin, and listen carefully to the sound coming out of the spark-plug holes. You want an even and STRONG "psh-psh-psh-psh-psh". Crank the engine for 10 seconds and listen for any major flat-spots or irregular pulses.
While you're cranking the engine, you should ALSO BE CHECKING FOR OIL PRESSURE. You should never start a fresh-rebuild without making sure that your oil-pressure is good. Crank the engine for 10-seconds and let it rest for 10-seconds. Repeat this step 3-5 times or until you've verified that you have good oil pressure.
If the engine sounds good, and the engine has good oil-pressure, then you should "prime" the engine for it's first start by injecting several "squirts" or ounces of automatic transmission fluid (ATF) or a (light) engine oil into both lower spark-plug holes before reinstalling the spark-plugs.
Make sure the spark plugs are new, and have been cleaned off. Also smell them to verify that fuel has actually been INJECTED into the engine. Another way to know if fuel has actually been injected (like you think) is just to watch as you crank the engine over. There should be some moderate fuel-smoke/vapor coming out of the spark-plug holes as you first start cranking the engine over with the plugs removed (since you tried starting it already, and have theoretically already injected fuel into the engine).
If you're still not sure, you can reinstall the EGI COMP fuse, and then crank the engine over for 3 seconds and you'll know really quickly if your injectors are firing.
Fuel smoke/vapor will start pouring out of your plug-holes. Don't do this if you don't have to, because you'll just have to "unflood" the engine again to clear the excess fuel, and then add more ATF oil to aid the "sealing" for when you actually try to start it.Verify that your AFM is correctly installed and plugged in. Also look for any MAJOR vac. leaks from your turbo, intake and intercooler. Verify that your brake-booster line is hooked up.
Check EVERY spark-plug wire individually to make sure it sparks when the engine is cranked. Make sure you're not injecting fuel into your engine while you're checking for spark though--remove the EGI INJ? fuse (I think?), although I've just unplugged the yellow plug attached to the steering column under the dash. The EGI COMP fuse will also disable spark, so you can't pull that fuse when checking for spark (while preventing fuel-injection).
If you have a compression tester, check your engine compression. It's likely your compression is slightly low, and you will have to unflood your engine and re-inject ATF fluid into your spark-plug holes several times before you can get the engine to start.
06-19-08, 05:20 AM
#3
Lives on the Forum
**** the vacuum leaks for now.
The engine should at least crank and catch for a few seconds even though you got tons of vacuum leaks (and the AFM not working).
Concentrate on the basics...
Fuel and spark.
You sound like you verified spark.
So let's switch to fuel...
You've verified fuel pressure in the rails.
Can you confirm the fuel injectors are firing?
Keep the fuel injectors on the fuel rails be using wire ties or pieces of wire.
Pull the primaries out of the holes.
Have a friend crank and watch the tips of the fuel injectors - shooting fuel?
-Ted
The engine should at least crank and catch for a few seconds even though you got tons of vacuum leaks (and the AFM not working).
Concentrate on the basics...
Fuel and spark.
You sound like you verified spark.
So let's switch to fuel...
You've verified fuel pressure in the rails.
Can you confirm the fuel injectors are firing?
Keep the fuel injectors on the fuel rails be using wire ties or pieces of wire.
Pull the primaries out of the holes.
Have a friend crank and watch the tips of the fuel injectors - shooting fuel?
-Ted
06-19-08, 10:56 PM
#6
wow thanks! for the helpful advice! When i verified fuel itwas just from the fuel line after the fuel filter , but not directly at the injector, so Ill check to see if the injectors actualy are firing next. The spark plugs are new NGKs , and I tested them with the power coils and theyspark strong. So it has to be eitehr the fuel and or vacuum....Ill keep trying... and the atf in the spark plug holes is agood idea for sealing thx. Thanks apreciate the helpful info il update you guys..
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06-20-08, 12:12 AM
#9
okay i tested the injectors, pulled them out and turned the key, the injectors are not spraying. I checked the injectors on the lower intake manifold.Pulled the injector out of the rail and there was alot of fuel, the problem is the injectors are not spraying .....what can it be? They are plugged in...hmm...i think this is the main problem, because when i crank it, there are no signs of the engine starting at all....it might just be the injectors..maybe the wiring to the injector is bad? I cranked the motor while the Uperintake manifold is off, and the engine sounded good like psh psh psh psh psh sound...anyone have an idea why the injector is not spraying.
when i checked the spark plugs they come out dry !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! soo this is teh problem......
when i checked the spark plugs they come out dry !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! soo this is teh problem......
06-20-08, 12:25 AM
#11
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I would check the ground a lot of heads over look this all the time. You did to ground the injector harness use a short 12mm bolt on the rotor housing or plate good luck...
06-20-08, 12:27 AM
#12
okay none of the injectors are spraying,... now ineed to figure out why they arnt spraying, they are plugged into the wiring harness, but why arnt they spraying...anyone have ideas? nEverything used to work fine before the engine blew.weird....
06-20-08, 12:40 AM
#16
omg i think i know what could be the problem... I painted my lower intake manifold and irons red. So could it be the paint is keeping the injectors from ground?? Do injectors really ground???? i didnt know that... exactly what part of the injector grounds, the sides near the tip where it sprays??
06-20-08, 12:43 AM
#17
Lives on the Forum
Okay, now we have it narrowed down to the fuel injectors not firing...
BTW, the ones on the center iron are the primaries - these are the only ones that are supposed to fire when cranking.
With the key in the ignition in the ON position, check to see if you get +12VDC on one of the wires.
Unplug the fuel injector and get a DMM to check for voltage on one of the wires.
If you don't see ANY voltage, the problem is with the power side of the circuit...
Remember, the fuel injectors are fired with a GROUND pulse from the stock ECU.
-Ted
BTW, the ones on the center iron are the primaries - these are the only ones that are supposed to fire when cranking.
With the key in the ignition in the ON position, check to see if you get +12VDC on one of the wires.
Unplug the fuel injector and get a DMM to check for voltage on one of the wires.
If you don't see ANY voltage, the problem is with the power side of the circuit...
Remember, the fuel injectors are fired with a GROUND pulse from the stock ECU.
-Ted
06-20-08, 01:01 AM
#19
Rotating Performance.
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They is also a ground wire near the ecu i'm not sure if you removed the ecu from the if not nevermind. On the main wire harness you will see three wires (I think it's three?) come together you need to ground them.
06-20-08, 01:14 AM
#20
there is two black ground wires taht come together from the wiring harness near the injectors and its been grounded into the housing. maybe i should try grounding directly from the negative side of the battery to the engines housing.and then il try volt test with that. I dont have a volt meter to use because it broke, il buy one tomarrow. I used a small light bulb instead to check the injectors wiring harness with the key on position, but the light did not light up at all, so theres no power coming from the harness I believe.. i grounded the light bulb and stuck asmall tabbed wire into the injector harness to see if there power and nada no power...il grab avolt meter tomarow....aw man.. hoefuly its just bad grounding on the engine......i hope its not on the positive side of everything.,.. itwill be hard to find...
06-20-08, 01:23 AM
#22
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when u ground a wire..the spot u ground to cant be painted or dirty u have to sand the area.
and when i did my first rebuild i had the same problem make sure u have the right injector clips connected to the right injectors or u will never get the right fuel.
and when i did my first rebuild i had the same problem make sure u have the right injector clips connected to the right injectors or u will never get the right fuel.
06-20-08, 01:33 AM
#23
yeah idid label the injector clips thank goodness lol. that would be amess if ididnt label em. mannn icant wait till it starts...beeennnn sadd..havent drovemy car for 4 months.....damn.i forgot what rotary engine sounds like... damn been so long.....
