jhammons01

Did I not say that? Jeez I could have swore that I said that. So yes if you run a hose over the Condensor at Idle (once again) the gas will be at a cooler temp and therefore it will reach lower temps when it is allowed to expand. The only problem is "WE don't have a hose with water waiting for us at every stop light.

Hence my solution would be to address what you can. I was unaware that Rotary Rocket did not have the fan already!

That being said, the only other solution would be to address the gas becuase "IF" all the components are "in place" and the system is still not cooling then it has to be Gas or the compressor is not working (compressing). Since the gas is the simplest thing to address (and I'll explaing that one later for RR85) That is where I suggested RR Start. Somehow that relates to me being and I don't know the exact properties of the two gasses your asking about. I am not sure if R12 cools better than 134a. I do know that, IF you decide to retrofit your system with 134a you need to completly and thouroughly purge your system of any R12 molecules before you introduce the 134a. and here is why in lamens terms. There is a Chlorine Molecule that is bonded in the R12. It si stable and noncorrosive as long as it is isolated in a chamber that is void of other molecules. IF you leave this free chlorine in your system and then you add 134a it has other molecules that when mixed with R12 become chorosive and it will attack o-rings and other components in the system. Now here is where a simple retrofit becomes complocated.................the oil is contamintated with the R12 chlorine so how do you get the oil out of your system??? Without taking it all apart it is impossible. If you want to be getto, (and you didn't hear it here) You can fill your system with 134a, run it a while and then purge it and refill.........repeat. Sowly you are purging the residual R12. Will you ever get it all out? Doubtful. But a new compressor could cost as much as your car is worth.

Converting your system to 134a is easy and it will only cost around $50 bux. There is a kit a walmart or Pep boys or any auto parts store. Make sure you get one with the pressure gauge. Make sure you get a can of oil as well. Teh kit will come with fittings for your inlet (schreader type valve) Just follow the instructions and You'll have the system converted in no time. My system had a leak in the schreader valve when I bought the car. The A/C didn't work at all becuase there was no gas in the system. I filled it with 134a and it started cooling immedialtly. The sytem leaks out every 8 months or so bit replacing that valve is low on my list. $3 can of 134a fixes me right up again.

That is the plus of a 134a system vs an R12 system. A can of R12 is something like $100? Unless you live near Mexico a $3 can of 134a is cheaper.......at least for those of us that are "full of ****"

Dammit, I typed another whole page useless ****. Next time I start doing this would you guys stop me???

Therotaryrocket85

Thanks for your suggestions and advice, its been really helpful. What would i have to do to properly get the old oil out without evacuating the system a few times, or is it easier to just do it that way? Do you have to take apart the whole system for o rings and stuff for it to work correctly? I mean it already works i just dont want to evacuate it and then not get it working right once i start ya know. Thanks a bunch

Icemark

I have found that using a mix with (or alternitive to) R12 such as Freeze12 or R12A and slightly over charging the system (around 115-125% of spec); to provide more than sufficent cooling even at long periods of idle in 90F+ temps.

Freeze12 is compatible in R12 systems, if you also use the Freeze12 oil kits. R12A is a better choice if completely re-charging a dis-assembled system, but has the draw back of being combustable at +575F temps. Freeze12 has basicly R134 that has additional modifed cemistry that makes it compatible with R12, while not becoming corrosive (as mixing straight R134 would be). I have used Mixed systems (75% R12 with 35% Freeze12 + /- 10%) for more than 3 years with no corrosion issues at all.

Therotaryrocket85

Awesome, so if i used freeze 12 then i wouldnt have to change anything on the system and it could work with the r12? That would be great if so. Where do you get this freeze 12 at?

homebrewer

Something to remember that any non R-12 refirgerant is less efficient than pure R-12. This means yhour cooling ability with a system that has been purged of R12 and replaced with something else won't work as well.

Icemark

I usually buy it by the case on Ebay.

But remember if you adding to an existing system that has R12 or R134, you need to get a oil recharge kit with it. This keeps it compatible with what ever existing florocarbon that is in there already.

jhammons01

Icemark and Homebrewer are right. I did overfill my system to compensate for the leak. I forgot that I had done that.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

then it sounds like the system is low on freon.

that or the condenser core is semi plugged with bugs and dirt and needs to be pressure washed or the fins are damaged in which case a new condenser is needed.

jhammons01

^^^Referring to.......???

slpin

iTrader: (9)

yes you did (typed another page of bullshit)! you did nothing to help him. i told him to stuff a fan there and guess what he said...

see how your bullshit didnt help??? it is as simple as his condensor isnt doing its job well. the fan helped and it is much better. retrofitting his system? **** NO! if he isnt getting the cooling he like with R12, R134 will make his cooling worst.... you typed a whole page convincing him to use a ******* freon.

he is not leaking any (freon), then GREAT keep, the R12 as long as he could until he is forced to use the newer r134a


edit: you were WELL aware about the fan.
look at the first page, you said I needed some schooling. because you were claiming about the compressor speed bull crap.

slpin

iTrader: (9)

DO NOT convert your system to R134
if yours is not leaking, LEAVE IT AS IS
R134a doesn't coola s well.
convert it when you have a leak in your system... then fix the leak and put in R134

your cooling will be worst with r134

look, before you listen to all this bullshit, hook it up to gauges and check the high and low side. see if you have enough freon in there... if you are a little bit low, then put some R12 in there, one can will NOT break the bank and should be around the same price as a whole retrofit R134a kit.

neonsalesman

I have had my vert for a year now. It took me sometime to figure out the recycle button causes me air to no only mix with the outside 100+ air here in Las Vegas but it also cuts the output by about 40%. It does not blow very hard when the recycle air button is off. It is about the same when I choose to both have teh upper vents on as well as the floor vents.

I always cool the car off with the upper vents only then turn on the the mxture of upper and lower vents as these cars are so low we pick up alot of heat off the road. Still on short trips to the store for a 6 pack and it is 110+ there is no use in even trying to run the air.

marlaman

Great, we should put that in the good story bag.


Anybody know the TRUE reson why freon was outlawed in the US and not every oter damn country in the world? Dupont lost the patent, paid off government officials and had them label it as bad, even though it has been to date the best refrigerant used in automibles and other coolant systems?

Freon is heavier than air, BIODEGRADABLE and also not a moneymaker for dupont these days. hence the true reason why freon isn't easily accessable in the US and manufactured readily and in good supply from other countries.

Matt

If you don't believe this is true either, reasearch it a little bit, i'm not kidding this is a very interesting fun-fact!

Therotaryrocket85

Sounds like you and me are in the same position. Im in the armpit of texas where humidity is always over 90% and its around 97 or so today for the high. 2 weeks ago it was over 102 with 100% humidity. Anyways to further add to this heat my car is black with charcoal leather. So ive basically done everything you shouldnt do.


I did appreciate the guys advice on converting over but i dont plan on it unless the car develops a leak. So far the system holds right where its supposed to and theres nothing blocking up or clogging up anything so i guess its just a flaw in the rx7s system that doesnt hold up to other kinds of cars. The recycle button is always on with me and it was that way on the other 2 rx7s ive had as well. Mabe i ought to move up north hehe. Anyways with the addition of the fan i think the only thing i lack that could help would be tinting the windows, would yall agree?

jhammons01

^^^ The window tinting will help as BTUs are generated from the sun. BUT that being said, something is not cooling properly if you are not seeing good temps on long runs.

Do what I did before we (slpin and I) ARGUE any more. Go to a Photography store and buy a thermometor, one with a long stem on it. It comes with a tray clip that will fit perfectly with the molded vents. Slide that Thermometer in the middle vents (be careful as the vents are really brittle) and then go for a 20 minute run. See how cold the air is coming out of the vents. If it is not down in the low 40s then there are issues. I would look at that simple fact before anything else.

Yes, Slpin( just to ease your pain) if the R12 is a little low it would be prudent to "just put in a can". But if there are larger issues you may not have the funds to do a full R12 repair.

RR85, You have most of the facts at this point, shop around for a can of R12. do as Icemark suggested (which is what I was doing a year ago but I couldn't find the freeze 12) and buy the freeze 12 retrofit kit. That way you don't have the worries about the corrosive issues.

134a may not work as well as R12 but when you need two or three cans.....you'll pick the 134a (or freeze 12, I am not sure of the cost of freeze 12).

Therotaryrocket85

Well today i took it out for the first time since i began this project and it seems to be just right now. I took it out when it was 90 out and it kept the thing perfectly cool. I guess the fan helped more than i thought. I will keep yall posted on what i decide and ill try the thermometer trick to see what its running at. Thanks everyone

dr.jones63

I had to do 3 of my cars this year and they wanted $200 each to convert them to R134. I say no way and got my own gauge fill set from Harbour freight and R12a (not R12) and did all 3 cars for less than $100 total.

http://www.es-refrigerants.com/

homebrewer

I CALL BULLSHIT ON THE FREON R12 CONSPIRACY THEORY.

The inertness and lack of water solubilty of CFCs mean they are not destroyed nor are they dissolved in rain water so they stay in the atmosphere for a very long time and diffuse up to the stratosphere
In the stratosphere, CFCs come into contact with short wavelength ultraviolet radiation which is able to split off chlorine atoms from the CFC molecules
CCl2F(g) u.v radiation
---------------> CCl2F(g) + Cl(g)

These chlorine atoms destroy the ozone layer
Cl(g) + O3(g) -------------> ClO(g) + O2(g)

There are significant numbers of oxygen atoms in the stratosphere (since ozone undergoes a natural photochemical decomposition producing oxygen atoms and molecules) which leads to the regeneration of chlorine atoms in the stratosphere.
So, 1 CFC molecule can destroy many ozone molecules.
ClO(g) + O(g) -------------> O2(g) + Cl(g)


This has nothing to do with patents. I'm amazed by how many people are like to make corporations out to be the "bad guy" just for the sake of a class warfare argument.

To the individual who made this conspiracy claim, you may be suffering from tinfoil poisoning and you may want to take off your tinfoil hat.

slpin

iTrader: (9)

yes
lets stop arguing
i am tired of it...

but if his AC has no problems, not low, leaks or anything. I see no reason to convert to the lower efficient, easier to leak R134 and pay more money.
That was my whole sake of the argument... he said his AC doesnt leak...

Richter12x2

iTrader: (1)

I live in Texas too, and I don't disagree that it's hot, but just a fun fact: If I remember right from weather class, if you really had 100% humidity you'd get localized rainshowers everytime a dog pissed in your yard. Anyway, while yep, it's true that R134a doesn't cool as effectively as R12 does, the difference is only about 5 degrees outlet vent temperature (air in the deepest, darkest part of your air conditioner would be 55 degrees with R134a instead of 50 degrees with R12.) So it's not a huge amount of difference, little enough to say for sure if the air still isn't cold when it gets to you, there's probably another problem (other than a few minutes to cool down.) Whether or not R12 is bad for the environment and is the result of some corporate/governmental conspiracy to force us to buy a $10 can of R134 instead of a $40 can of R12 is still up in the air, but I'm going to doubt it. Mostly because if you've got a company that makes this stuff, and has factories set up to make this stuff, then it's still going to be cheaper to keep making the old stuff instead of spending all the R&D and marketing money, bribing of officials and whatnot, that it's going to take to sell a product for 1/4th or 1/5th the amount of money. Yeah, maybe there'll be some competition, but as any good economist knows, when you're coming from a market where you have complete control, it's not that hard to underprice one of your products to put upstarts out of business. I've seen gas stations sell unleaded at a loss to put a new station out of business, and damned if it don't work! But I like a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy. Hasn't everyone read about the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide yet?

shazamrx

So, if freon is heavier than air, how does it get into the atmosphere in the first place. I believe the consperousy theory, it`s more fun.

Also, about five years ago, (I live on the coast of Oregon so don`t need air conditioning much), I was going to take a trip over into Idaho where I new it would be hot. My A/C was toast so I decided to go as cheap as I could to get it fixed before I went. I didn`t care how long it worked as long as it worked for the trip for a week. I went to the local wrecking yard and found a compressor laying in the back of an RX/7, they sold it to me for $15.00 because they wouldn`t guarentee it to work and no refunds. I put it on, didn`t evac the system at all, bought a retrofit kit and charged it up. Worked like a champ but made a bit of a whine though but not bad. It still is working today and I have never had any problem at all. Lucky huh? The R-13 isn`t as efficient as the R-12 is, that`s a fact.

asherwood

So you guys can still buy R12 in the US?

How about in Washington State?

I have fixed the leak in my system and maybe it's time for a raod trip to have a shop down there re-charge my system?

Any idea what this would cost?

Thanks

Therotaryrocket85

Im not gonna argue with ya about humidty ratings but if you would like you can call my news station here and explain to the weather men there that 100% humidity would cause 100% rain. Weve got a channel strictly for weather and it shows live conditions at all times and i can say its said 100% countless times and there not be a drop of rain. But on a day like today, we had 100% humidity and then the rain came. So ill agree with you to a degree i suppose. Whether or not their equipment is accurate i dont know. I only say what i see, its not me its the weather man

Therotaryrocket85

They still sell it here and there but youve gotta search for it and then pay an arm and a leg for it. But its still around. It cost about as much as gold though.

asherwood

I figured that, but if it lasted for the 1st 14 years then....

Prices?

In washington state?