andrew lohaus

woah. there is no way you can try to extrapolate the flow capacity of your intake from your measured fuel economy. there are SOOOOO many other factors in that.

casio

no, it means we recognize there's a purposeful error of running rich, but that we sacrifice a bit of "security" to extract more heat. you can lean out your stock settings and recognize power.

NZConvertible

In case you hadn't noticed, this is mainly a technical forum, hence there will be some technical discussions that will use some technical terms. If that bothers you, you're in the wrong forum. If you want explanations, just ask (nicely). And if you're going to use the word "espouse", learn what it means and how to spell it.
How many different ways can you use a cone filter? You stick it on the end of an intake. You can put a heat shield around it and you can run a cold air duct to it. That's about all your options. I've never said that a pod filter is worse than the stock airbox, but I've repeatedly said that the increase in intake air temp from an exposed pod filter in the engine bay will negate some or even all of the gains from the reduced restriction.
The ECU reacts to what it measures. If the airflow increases, it measures it. It the air temp increases, it measures it. It's all pretty predictable and well understood. Despite what some may think, a rotary engine follows all of the same rules as other internal combustion engines. Colder air makes more power than warmer air, simple as that. Asking for dyno figures is pointless, because airflow over the car at speed will give very different results to a car sitting on a dyno.
I'm not throwing around numbers. Those are measured scientific results that you can get nearly anywhere you look. They are completely relevant to any discussion of intake temps. You do not need to take extensive measurements to see whether airflow and/or temp have increased. You can plug a voltmeter into your ECU to get indicative results (i.e. a change in voltage means a change in the measurement). Most people can feel the increase in power and throttle response that a well-executed cold-air intake provides, and you can do 0-60mph runs to prove it.

I'm not entirely sure what the point of your post was. Are you attacking accuracy of my info or just me personally?

bingoboy

here's a fun bit of crap. the safc monitors the opening of the AFM. you stick a box around the cone filter and your afm opens up a helluva lot less. i'm not talking about the stock box either, just a heat shield type thing that is fitted to suck air in through the original nozzle area. im tempted to go stick my stock box on there just too see how much less the afm opens up.

shiftnmadkwik

yeah and hot wire air flow meters break like a ****, ask any subaru owner who beefed it up.

NZConvertible

I've measured underbonnet temps (over several months) and saw temps as high at 70degC (160degF) at low speeds. Generally the faster you go the closer to ambient it gets, but it's still always ~20degC higher than ambient under the bonnet once everything's warmed up.

casio

i am much for not only having the filter away from the heat, but also wrapping the metal (metal! why metal?!) intake pipe with thermo-shield or similar heat wrap.
what do i have? the exact setup you say fails. bought the car used with one. i even still need the bracket to level the AFM.

NZConvertible

Hot-wire airflow meters are quite reliable unless physically damaged. The problem is when using oiled filters in front of them. If you over-oil the filter (and many do), the oil gets pulled out of the filter by the airflow and deposited onto the measuring wire. This causes the meter to under-read significantly, so the ECU runs the engine very lean and it blows. I know Subaru will decline any warranty claim on a blown engine with an oiled filter, and other manufacturers probably do too.

casio

they need a SECOND filter to catch oil! ... and the night grows older..
what time is it in australia, NZ? and do you have more than one time zone there?

NZConvertible

NZ just has one time zone. It's currently 8pm here. Oz is between 2 and 5 hours behind us.

casio

my bad, New Zealand.. yikes.. its in the name.. its next to "LOCATION"... pardon me. i live on the other side of the world.. while i'm on a role with dumb statements, what does "Oz" stand for ?

NZConvertible

Hah, I misread your post actually. I thought you were asking about both Australia and NZ. Shame on you!

Oz is our nickname for the big island next door. Australia, Aussie, Ozzie, Oz.

casio

i figured it had to do with the aussies, but made no actual connection. wow, you broke it down step by step, though. something tells me this isnt the original intended topic. but i'm learning about internationality, and thats what this site is really for.

JGard18

gotcha, NZ, I know what you're saying (in regards to my post). The ECU does know what to do, and it's just set to overcompensate. It's still kinda the same, as in, it's putting more fuel in than it should to prevent damage.

I was talking about non-turbo Subaru's, too, btw

ponykiller

Geez, you guys really hashed this one out.

What I am wondering now is if you could lean out the mixture at the higher rpms (say, 6500+) if you would get the power back. i.e. how much of the power loss is just due to the ECU being setup to run so rich at that airflow/air temp. Is the ECU being overly protective, or is it really necessary?

ponykiller

I cannot imagine needing to go THIS rich. What is really necessary?

NZConvertible

Factory mixtures are always very conservative (i.e. rich). A dyno-tuned fuel controller would give you leaner mixtures, increasing power and mileage.