Interesting Charging Problem..
06-16-05, 03:04 PM
#1
Interesting Charging Problem..
Well, after reading tons of threads on this subject, I figured I would post my problem, and maybe the solution after its fixed..
Basically, on the way back from the strip on friday, all my dash lights came on (dead alternator), and volts started plunging. I managed to nurse the car home, where I naturally assumed the alternator had took a crap.
So I ordered a new alternator which was replaced last night... Did not fix the problem.
Here is what I have done:
1. Checked voltage at the alternator, and it was 16 Volts.
2. Checked voltage at battery, 11 volts.
3. Toned out the line from the Alternator to battery.. 0 ohms (continuity)
What I am about to do:
1. Take old alternator to Checker to have it tested.
2. Check for bad ground around starter area.
3. Whatever you all suggest, just short of setting the car on fire.
Any help is greatly appreciated!
Rat
Basically, on the way back from the strip on friday, all my dash lights came on (dead alternator), and volts started plunging. I managed to nurse the car home, where I naturally assumed the alternator had took a crap.
So I ordered a new alternator which was replaced last night... Did not fix the problem.
Here is what I have done:
1. Checked voltage at the alternator, and it was 16 Volts.
2. Checked voltage at battery, 11 volts.
3. Toned out the line from the Alternator to battery.. 0 ohms (continuity)
What I am about to do:
1. Take old alternator to Checker to have it tested.
2. Check for bad ground around starter area.
3. Whatever you all suggest, just short of setting the car on fire.
Any help is greatly appreciated!
Rat
06-16-05, 03:13 PM
#2
Lives on the Forum
The new alt was put on, the car started again, and the warning lights stayed on, is that what you're saying?
Yep, check the grounds first. If you don't see anything physically wrong with them, do this, JUST for troubleshooting:
Make yourself a bonding jumper, at least 10 gauge, and connect one end to the alt's mounting hardware (under the big bolt head or nut would be good). Connect the other end to the car's chassis. See if that makes any difference.
Note that if your other grounds are in good shape and still run the OEM paths, this jumper may make the car run like ****. I've tried to explain why this is so many times, but nobody ever listens to me on the subject of grounds. Needless to say, just use the jumper for troubleshooting...
You've checked all of the fuses, I presume? Meter fuse come to mind...
BTW- 16 volts is a bit much...Where are you reading this?
Yep, check the grounds first. If you don't see anything physically wrong with them, do this, JUST for troubleshooting:
Make yourself a bonding jumper, at least 10 gauge, and connect one end to the alt's mounting hardware (under the big bolt head or nut would be good). Connect the other end to the car's chassis. See if that makes any difference.
Note that if your other grounds are in good shape and still run the OEM paths, this jumper may make the car run like ****. I've tried to explain why this is so many times, but nobody ever listens to me on the subject of grounds. Needless to say, just use the jumper for troubleshooting...
You've checked all of the fuses, I presume? Meter fuse come to mind...
BTW- 16 volts is a bit much...Where are you reading this?
06-16-05, 03:35 PM
#4
Originally Posted by WAYNE88N/A
The new alt was put on, the car started again, and the warning lights stayed on, is that what you're saying?
You've checked all of the fuses, I presume? Meter fuse come to mind...
BTW- 16 volts is a bit much...Where are you reading this?
BTW- 16 volts is a bit much...Where are you reading this?
Meter fuse? this is a new one... Agreed, 16 volts is excessive, but if the alternator is spinning and its seeing NO load whatsoever, I can see that it may be an issue. That reading was taken DIRECTLY off the B+ post coming off the alternator to ground. My SYSTEM voltage is about 11.5 at the battery, and confirmed on the voltage meter on the Turbo Timer.
Also, the old ALT tested good.. So its got to be a grounding problem somewhere... HMM....
06-16-05, 03:48 PM
#7
Lives on the Forum
Originally Posted by J-Rat
No, the warning ligts were off, but I dont think the come on if the alternator is just not putting out voltage, I think they come on after the system voltage drops to a certain level. Just my theory.
Meter fuse? this is a new one... Agreed, 16 volts is excessive, but if the alternator is spinning and its seeing NO load whatsoever, I can see that it may be an issue. That reading was taken DIRECTLY off the B+ post coming off the alternator to ground. My SYSTEM voltage is about 11.5 at the battery, and confirmed on the voltage meter on the Turbo Timer.
Also, the old ALT tested good.. So its got to be a grounding problem somewhere... HMM....
Meter fuse? this is a new one... Agreed, 16 volts is excessive, but if the alternator is spinning and its seeing NO load whatsoever, I can see that it may be an issue. That reading was taken DIRECTLY off the B+ post coming off the alternator to ground. My SYSTEM voltage is about 11.5 at the battery, and confirmed on the voltage meter on the Turbo Timer.
Also, the old ALT tested good.. So its got to be a grounding problem somewhere... HMM....
Yeah, once the alt's output falls below the batt's voltage, I would think...
Meter fuse feeds the alt's warning lights relay- the relay probably fail-safes to the lights on position (again, conjecture)...
System voltage is 11.5 with the alt turning? That ain't good...But you already knew that
Try my grounding suggestion, if it don't work then your grounds are probably good. Then we'll start looking at the excitation and feedback circuits...
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06-16-05, 03:50 PM
#8
Lives on the Forum
Originally Posted by Wankel7
Try running thick wire directly from the post on the alt to the alt.
James
James
The post on the alt to the alt body????????
06-16-05, 04:02 PM
#11
Lives on the Forum
Don't add major current-carrying wiring while the car's running, silly boy...
You sure you weren't accidentally shorting it to the alt body near the B terminal?
Is this an aftermarket alt you have on there now?
Whip out the FSM and check the back plug's inputs out per the book, if ya want, just to verify that part of the equation is good...
Or hey, try this- run huge 0000 gauge ground wires all over the place, everyone else seems to fix their cars that way (a sample of my warped humor for the day)
You sure you weren't accidentally shorting it to the alt body near the B terminal?
Is this an aftermarket alt you have on there now?
Whip out the FSM and check the back plug's inputs out per the book, if ya want, just to verify that part of the equation is good...
Or hey, try this- run huge 0000 gauge ground wires all over the place, everyone else seems to fix their cars that way (a sample of my warped humor for the day)
06-16-05, 04:08 PM
#12
Originally Posted by WAYNE88N/A
Don't add major current-carrying wiring while the car's running, silly boy...
You sure you weren't accidentally shorting it to the alt body near the B terminal?
You sure you weren't accidentally shorting it to the alt body near the B terminal?
Is this an aftermarket alt you have on there now?
Whip out the FSM and check the back plug's inputs out per the book, if ya want, just to verify that part of the equation is good...
06-16-05, 04:15 PM
#13
Lives on the Forum
Originally Posted by J-Rat
Done and done. You think I would post up without consulting the FSM first?! For shame!!
So all you have left are the grounds, then?
For a quick check, just read resistance from the alt body to the neg batt terminal with a meter- what do you get (turn the car off first)?...
06-16-05, 04:27 PM
#16
H O L Y S H I T...
You guys have GOT to see this crap.
HUGE sections of my charging harness (Starter/Alternator) are burned to a CRISP. I GOTTA get pictures of this!! UN FRIGGIN BELIEVABLE....
Wonder what shorted? Couldnt be the battery, I can still start the car off battery power...
THANK GOD FOR PARTS CARS!!!
You guys have GOT to see this crap.
HUGE sections of my charging harness (Starter/Alternator) are burned to a CRISP. I GOTTA get pictures of this!! UN FRIGGIN BELIEVABLE....
Wonder what shorted? Couldnt be the battery, I can still start the car off battery power...
THANK GOD FOR PARTS CARS!!!
06-16-05, 04:47 PM
#18
Lives on the Forum
If no fuses blew, gotta be the starter cable...
How old is the starter, Rat?
Has it been doing anything funky lately?
Well, we know where you're gonna be for a while, lol...
That sucks, though, I feel for ya...
How old is the starter, Rat?
Has it been doing anything funky lately?
Well, we know where you're gonna be for a while, lol...
That sucks, though, I feel for ya...
06-16-05, 05:21 PM
#20
Originally Posted by WAYNE88N/A
If no fuses blew, gotta be the starter cable...
How old is the starter, Rat?
Has it been doing anything funky lately?
Well, we know where you're gonna be for a while, lol...
That sucks, though, I feel for ya...
How old is the starter, Rat?
Has it been doing anything funky lately?
Well, we know where you're gonna be for a while, lol...
That sucks, though, I feel for ya...
Not necessarily. The starter is working fine.
Here is what I have managed to ascertain from the damage:
The B+line that feeds the battery is in the starter/charging harness, and its UN-FUSED. It runs from B+ on the Alternator, to the starter, and back up to the battery. Now, the line that runs up to the Alternator has 4 wires in it. The field, monitor, CAS, and B+ line. Right in the area that burned up, there was a repair to ALL the wires. As much as I hate to admit it, it looks like it was my repair, because of the blue electrical tape used (my signature). Now this repair also just HAPPENED to be the area that was being held by a Zip tie, to part of some bracketing (long story).
So. to make a long story short, due to the poor repair job on that area, a few strands of charging wire managed to chafe through the shielding, and ground out against the bracket, thus burning a 6 inch section of wire all to hell and back. It should take me about 2 hours to repair (correctly this time), and replace the wire looming that was damaged in the process.
Good times...
06-17-05, 05:31 AM
#23
Lives on the Forum
Originally Posted by J-Rat
Not necessarily. The starter is working fine.
Here is what I have managed to ascertain from the damage:
The B+line that feeds the battery is in the starter/charging harness, and its UN-FUSED. It runs from B+ on the Alternator, to the starter, and back up to the battery. Now, the line that runs up to the Alternator has 4 wires in it. The field, monitor, CAS, and B+ line. Right in the area that burned up, there was a repair to ALL the wires. As much as I hate to admit it, it looks like it was my repair, because of the blue electrical tape used (my signature). Now this repair also just HAPPENED to be the area that was being held by a Zip tie, to part of some bracketing (long story).
So. to make a long story short, due to the poor repair job on that area, a few strands of charging wire managed to chafe through the shielding, and ground out against the bracket, thus burning a 6 inch section of wire all to hell and back. It should take me about 2 hours to repair (correctly this time), and replace the wire looming that was damaged in the process.
Good times...
Here is what I have managed to ascertain from the damage:
The B+line that feeds the battery is in the starter/charging harness, and its UN-FUSED. It runs from B+ on the Alternator, to the starter, and back up to the battery. Now, the line that runs up to the Alternator has 4 wires in it. The field, monitor, CAS, and B+ line. Right in the area that burned up, there was a repair to ALL the wires. As much as I hate to admit it, it looks like it was my repair, because of the blue electrical tape used (my signature). Now this repair also just HAPPENED to be the area that was being held by a Zip tie, to part of some bracketing (long story).
So. to make a long story short, due to the poor repair job on that area, a few strands of charging wire managed to chafe through the shielding, and ground out against the bracket, thus burning a 6 inch section of wire all to hell and back. It should take me about 2 hours to repair (correctly this time), and replace the wire looming that was damaged in the process.
Good times...
Why don't you fuse that run when you repair it?
I would chastise you for the rig job, but I have plenty of zip ties being used for harness clamps and standoffs too, lol. I check the runs every now and then to see how they're doing, though. I have an affinity for blue electrical tape also...
Good luck with the repair
06-17-05, 03:06 PM
#24
Originally Posted by WAYNE88N/A
Ahh, I forgot that you wired up some special "J-Rat wiring" in your car. If it was stock, the alt wiring would have blown the main fuse as soon as it hit ground.
Why don't you fuse that run when you repair it?
I would chastise you for the rig job, but I have plenty of zip ties being used for harness clamps and standoffs too, lol. I check the runs every now and then to see how they're doing, though. I have an affinity for blue electrical tape also...
Good luck with the repair
Why don't you fuse that run when you repair it?
I would chastise you for the rig job, but I have plenty of zip ties being used for harness clamps and standoffs too, lol. I check the runs every now and then to see how they're doing, though. I have an affinity for blue electrical tape also...
Good luck with the repair
I got that car for $700 dollars because every electrical place in town couldnt figure out what was wrong. Not to toot my own horn, but I had it fixed within 4 hours. HOWEVER, the harnesses in that car are in POOR shape (thats putting it lightly). Its only a matter of time before that car is going to need a complete rewire, I am just buying time by nursing the old harnesses along. Add that to the fact that the car was rolled before I got it, and you have MASSIVE frame damage to add to the damaged harnesses.
I am patiently waiting for another 10th AE to pop up that needs motor/tranny, etc.. Then I will transfer everything over to that car and (I hate to say this), send my current one to the junkyard. Its led a hard life....
*edit*
You know what old man? You need to get AIM or MSM or something..
Last edited by J-Rat; 06-17-05 at 03:11 PM.
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