von

People say the 3rd gen owners look down on T11 guys but I thought of something awile ago.

3rd gen = 255hp 10psi
2nd gen = 200hp 7.5psi

With a small exaust and boost controller to get that 10psi the 3rd gen has you can almost hit 255hp meaning thiers no real big difference. I know thiers internal difference like one of the plates so it can handle an average of 100hp more but as far as mod / mod thier almost the same right??? how can anyone look down on the t11 especialy if its a fraction of the price for almost the same engine power / PSI

Spraintz

iTrader: (1)

agreed, i am convinced that a moderately modded TII can hang with a 3rd gen.

No7Yet

Because there's more to power than just peak numbers. The FD engine makes more torque (via full boost from the primary turbo at 1800 RPM) at lower engine speeds than does the FC TII.

You're also forgetting that PSI isn't everything - VE is. The FD engine flows a lot more air than the FC does and ever will. The manifold setup is improved, the turbos are less restrictive, and the intercooler has less pressure drop across it.

Add to this the fact that the FD is a lot lighter than the FC, and you'll see how it runs mid 13s vs the FC's 15-flat with only 55 more peak hp.

Oh, and it's TII, not T11 (sorry, but that really freaking irritates me).

Brandon

Rotorific

iTrader: (1)

The intake itself flows better or the flow characteristics of the engine flow better because you could do an fd mani conversion and solve that problem real quick?!

No7Yet

Both. The FD intake ports are higher up on the endplates, and the LIM (which will not fit a 13BT, btw) has a more direct shot into the engine.

Brandon

Freaky Monkey007

What all do you need to swap a 13B-REW into a TII??

No7Yet

If you have to ask...



Brandon

T2 Tsunami

iTrader: (3)

I did'nt know the 3rd gen. weight is less than the 2nd gen.. What is the weight on them?. the 3rd gen lokks heavier.

Icemark

Actually the FD weighs about as much as a S4 NA (around 2600-2700 lbs)

No7Yet

Mazda says FDs' curb weight is 2750 lbs, while the S4 TII weigh 2870 lbs, and S5 TIIs weigh 3008 lbs. Having driven (read: flogged) S4 and S5 TIIs, I'd say that Mazda is not too far off.

Brandon

Icemark

Thats why I said S4 NA

T2 models generally weigh another 100-150 lbs over a NA verisons (depending on options).

Mark'sMazda

FD's handle way better, look way better, and respond to mods way better. But they are very expensive to own, insurence, maintance, and purchase price are very high, and they aren't very easy to work on, and they break a lot if driven daily.

sjordan

Well I will say this:

I have raced a few third gens here in Dallas and have beat most of them. As of right now I am on a stock turbo (getting 60-1 installed next week) with a street port.

Now I haven't raced a street ported 3rd gen...but it should be fun. I do notice tho that the 3rd gens seem to have alot better high-end then 2nd gens...but that's me racing one before I got my boost controller.

I can't give my opinion on handling because I have never driven one....but I hear the 3rd gens are a little better.

For looks I'd say the majority of the 3rd gens look better....mainly because they are more new. But I would take a 2nd gen body over a 3rd gen anyday if its re-painted etc....I just don't like the 3rd gen style as much as the 2nd gen

No7Yet

Uh, guys, you're getting pretty far off-topic here. The original poster was asking why the FD was considered top dog when the FC TII makes more "hp per PSI", and how easy it should be to make an FC TII as fast (in a straight line) as an FD, and power gains equivalence, mod for mod between the two.

Brandon

bkapold@aol.com

Lets keep in mind that driver experience is alot of it, but I know for a fact that a little modded TII will hang with a stock FD....The FD motors are alot better though...But I've seen S4 motors run 9's and 10's ao I do think it depends on who is building the motor....another big topic

Brad

vaughnc

The FD was designed to compete against the higher sports car class. The TII was designed to compete in the midlevel class, and the NAs in the entry level class.

This is evident as the FDs will most likely retain their value in the $8-18K range and the TII in the $4500-9500 range.

There is a bit of prestique in owning a higher class of car, and most 3rd gen owners are most likely bandwagon hoppers and not diehard rotary fans.

That being said, most people in the rx-7 community get just as many giggles & goosebumps when seeing a well done 1st gen, GTU-S, or TII. Especially since we have the only convertible

787B

I don't think the gap between a TII and FD is as big as most people think. And yes, a TII with a few mods could hang with a stock FD. I think part of the reason the FD earns such high praise is because everyone thinks it looks better, but since I care about performance most I know the TII is a great car. Especially for the price

Mark'sMazda

I agree that dollar for dollar a t2 is the way to go, but I think that the FD is a truely beutiful car and, has the performance to match. I like the boxy lines of my fc but I don't consider my car great looking from a design standpoint.

I agree that per psi a t2 has more hp is interestig, but basic upragdes will put an FD into the high 12's while the T2 is in the high 13's. Same is true for handling, the FD is in SS witch is the highest perfomance autoX class, that mods aren't allowed. The FC is very competive in it's class, but it wouldn't touch an FD.

Make no mistake I love my FC but when I graduate and am no longer a poor collage student I will have an FD parked next to the FC in my garage.

gotorx7

Guys, I don't know where you get some of this from, but you really need to go drive an FD before thinking that you can compare a 2nd Gen with one.

Don't get me wrong - I love my 'vert dearly - but when I head to the track or want to do some serious driving, it's the FD that I take every time.

And VaughnC! As I've got both FC and FD - does that make me more a die-hard or less?

vaughnc

some of what???

... With equivalent HP the FC & FD could go neck & neck??

... Any "newer car/generation" owners will perceive previous generations as outdated and lesser.

.... FC's being perceived as the bastard stepchild attitude from FD owners who never visit this forum, go to meets, talk about their cars, and say "I just liked the FDs looks"? I've met a few of those and I wish they'd sell their cars to someone who appreciates them. "I drive an FD automatic because it's fast - ugg..."

Don't know if there's ever been an FD vs FC shootout at a racetrack with similar HP, new suspensions, and OEM brakes, tires, etc.., but that would be very cool

I think we all know all generations of RX-7s have made a huge comback because of support from Mazda & aftermarket companies, performance, availabiltiy, size of the owner community, and they attract "cool car guys" who want something a bit exotic/fast/fun... Much more than rustangs, eclipses, etc.. owners who just want to drive something fast (ie with muscle but POS suspension/no handling).

Have we beat this horse enough??

Mr. Eccentric

Take a mildly modded TII, remove ps, and put the rear steer eliminator busings in, do some minor weight redux, and I think the entertainment value for the dollar will shame the FD. Don't get me wrong, the FD is spectacular, and visually still one of, if not the best looking car on the road today. It's just the turbo system is overengineered to work with reliability in mind. If the FD had a Renesis and a small lagless turbo, or supercharger, that would be the ultimate combination.

drago86

on the porting, FD seconday ports area a lil bigger, and open a tad earlyer, but the FC has much larger primarys, that open alot earlyer than the fd's, so id say FC's have a slight advantage in porting, not taking into acount runners however. http://www.rotaryengineillustrated.c...-ports101.html
-see for yourself
FD's handle MUCH better, if youve ever looked at an FD's suspension youll know why,..

RX7withNitrous

ummm third gens don't run mid 13's stock they run between 13.8-14.2 im not sure what the turbo TII's run but i don't think 15's sounds right.

Rxmfn7

iTrader: (4)

Most major magazines ran between a 13.6 and 14.0 with the FD. While I dont think any magazine tests broke the 14 second barrier with the S5T2. Mazda claimed a 14.9, but I think the best tested time was a 15.2. Yes I know that magazine times can be shaved off by a few tenths, Im just saying what I've read

Erik

cooo...

I have an old Road&Track and they got a 90T2 to do 14.6 in the 1/4mi