Kanaida

Sooo! Everything is FINALLY done!!! The car is completely back together.. except for small details (steering column, steering wheel, plastic stuff). So my father, my boy Charlie, and I are all out there, and we try to start her up... she turns over!! WOOO!! no start up though. That's fine. My dad gets out the marvel mystery oil, pulls the leading plugs, and puts some in there, and plugs them back in. Turing the car over, won't fire up. My father says get the starter fluid. I get some, and THERE IT IS!!!! SHE FIRES UP! SHE LIVES!! And then dies... So my father has me get in the car, and I start it up, and I keep revving it and revving it, keeping it up just around 3k. I had it goin' for around 30 seconds. Then when I tried to let her idle on her own, died. (my dad was spraying starter fluid in the intake the whole time) So, then I started her up and we didn't use ANY starter fluid in, and she started, and as I got on the gas, the car just immediately died. Soo... she's not getting fuel.

So it's either the injectors or the pump. We're gonna test the pump out tomorrow (sunday) and disconnect a hose and try and see if the pump is even pushing any fuel. After that, it's the injectors. I have a bad feeling it's the injectors. Wrong impedance I bet... Bad feeling... Long story. My friend ordered them for me from his shop so that I could get them for cheap. But we'll see. Everything else lights up and works good though. All electronics work. And it was nice to have the car sitting back on all four wheels again.. She looks so nice..

So that's where I stand now guys... I'm so close!!! That, and also. When we were starting the car, before we were using starter fluid, when I was turning her over, the afm flapper door would be banging ALOT. Not rapidly, but once every 1 or 2 seconds. It was weird... When we had her running, it stopped slappin' around. Is that usual? That's all I have guys.

Thanks for everyone's help over the past few months to get me to where I am now.

-K

Capn' Wankel

Had the same thing happen with a buddy of mine's NA FC. Took it to a rotory mechanic and had HUGE intake leaks. The intake flapper was banging around just as you described too. Did you use new gaskets for the intake manifolds/turbo manifold? Spray some starter fluid around trouble areas on your intake tracks....if there are any holes or unmated surfaces you will get a surge in RPM. gl man glad to hear about a 10th anniversary getting back on the road again.

-Lee

hypntyz7

Injectors of the wrong impedance will still work in a car set up otherwise, it's just bad for the ecu. sort of like running too many subs off one amplifier. They'll still play, just that you later have a chance of tearing up the amp (ecu).

Sounds like an electrical problem such as a fuse, or otherwise a bad fuel pump. Pull the supply hose at the fuel filter and crank the car, watch for fuel. IF you get none, it is the pump, or power supply to the pump. IF you get fuel, then pull your intake manifold, take the primary injectors off the block along with the fuelrail, tie the injectors to the rail, and crank the car while someone holds a pan under the injectors and observes them...they should fire front-back-front-back.

eViLRotor

iTrader: (2)

Judging by your mods list, sounds like your are going to have a pretty sweet ride once it runs on her own!!!

adamlewis

Couldnt you just jumper that connection near the airbox that primes the fuel system?

hypntyz7

The connection by the airbox is just a power check for the fuelpump itself...it has nothing to do with the injectors. So yes, if you went through the first step and had no fuel, then you could try that and see if you get fuel then...but that still doesnt tell you if youre injectors are opening or not. The only bulletproof test for this is to do what I described above...look and see what theyre doing.

NZConvertible

Now that you have electrical power, have you done some preliminary tuning of the S-AFC? Those big primary injectors (if they're working) are going to be causing very rich mixtures, which might make starting and idling difficult.

For the primaries, set all the 0-3800rpm settings to -31% to get the mixtures back to stock.

Are those secondaries 1060cc/min, or did you mean 1600? If they're 1060's, set the >3800rpm settings to -41%. If they're 1600's, you'd need a correction of -55% to get stock mixtures, which the S-AFC can't do.

Kanaida

UPDATE:

Alright, it's not the pump. We pulled the line from underneath the car, and turned her over, and fuel came like it supposed to. Now I have to remove the intake manifold again and have a look inside.. should be fun..

And intake leaks? ****. I can't see where there could be one. it's pretty straight forward (my intake) being that it's cone to pvc to turbo. But I'll have a look around.

And no, we didn't do too much tuning with the afc. Just stuff small basic stuff. The injectors are 1060's. But I'll try setting back my afc although it doesn't seem like it's getting any fuel. When I started the car without my dad spraying in starter fluid, she starteed, went up to 3K, and then immidiately died. That's why we're so set on fuel starvation. I'll have a go around today and tomorrow though. See what I can figure out. Wish me luck boys...

yes, she's gonna be DAMN mean once I get her running on her own power... must... run.. 12... second... q/m...

-K

hypntyz7

We dont mean your TID only; intake leaks can be anywhere along that pathway between the filter and the block, including any intercooler or vacuum hoses that are loose/off.

Kanaida

oh.....! okay

adamlewis

I meant just doing that as opposed to pulling hoses off or pulling the entire pump.

hypntyz7

Supplying power to the pump is not equivalent to recieving fuel out of it. I have seen pumps get power but just plain out not work...since (I think) he said his car sat, it is a candidate for this behavior.

When i do this, i pull the hose off (what does it take, all of 10 seconds) and check for fuel. If I get none it can be for 2-3 reasons:

1) fuse or electrical issue
2) bad or no voltage at pump (related to 1)
3) bad pump itself

Kanaida

well, I've now tuned my afc down to the above noted specs by Jason, started the car. Car reached 3000 rpm, stalled and died out. The more I think about it, the more I wonder if it's a huge vacuum leak somewhere. I mean, if these injectors are supposed to work even if they are the wrong impedance, then why am I stalling out?

A note to everyone.. when doing mods.. do one at a time.. don't do 16 at once, and that way you know if something's wrong, you know where to look. Don't do what I did. Damn it. Well, I guess it's time to remove the throtle body and have a look at the rails/injectors. Yay......

-K

Kanaida

As I disassembled the throtle body, I found a the hose the goes from the turbo charger up into the intercooler... One of those hoses wasn't on very tight. I mean, it was around the lip of the metal pipe (that metal piece where you attach your bov and bac valve) and everything. But maybe it was creating a bad leak... That's the only problem I noticed when taking it all apart. Now I'm waiting for my dad to come home before I try and test the injectors... All the other hoses were on just fine. So we'll see!

-K

Kanaida

UPDATE:

******* ****! The injectors are spraying fuel just fine. We took out the primaries, and left them connected, and started the car, and they fired just as they're supposed to.. **** ME!!! So it's not the pump, and it doesn't appear to be the injectors.... This isn't looking good guys.. More suggestions please! I'm running out of ideas here. My only thought is maybe a big vac leak somewhere? Or big leak in the intake? I mean, I don't know what else could be stalling the engine out. Help me out boys.

-K

hypntyz7

Yeah, well, there you go, you see the benefit of runing a really detailed system check now dont you.

I would go with a problem in the intake and/or air flow meter now...

walterh

Check your fuel injector grommets. If you have a big *** vacuum leak, it is probably the primary injector grommets, if you have never replaced them. They will get hard and brittle and will not seal. Spray carb cleaner or starting fluid and see if it raises the idle. I had the same problem you do, and took me a month to figure out what the hell was going on. Also, I got the info from this forum. Good luck man!!!

Kanaida

UPDATE:

what about fuel pressure? A friend of mine suggested testing to make sure I was getting the right fuel pressure from the pump itself. I plan on testing that later this afternoon. As I test pressure, I plan on testing the impedance of the primaries just to make sure. And I'm on the phone as we speak waiting for my mazda part dealer and gonna I'll ask him about the injector gromets. It's funny you mention those Walter, because I used the stock ones on and put those around my brand new Holley injectors.. I was so amazed that they fit on my new injectors, and they fit semi-snug in the block, so maybe that's it. Couldn't hurt to invest in new ones of those anyways I suppose. I'll get them for cheap. So that's what's up. Okay, gromets come in tomorrow.. I'll update you guys again later this evening (as if you care )

-K

walterh

Let us know man!!!

Kanaida

UPDATE:

Okay, I know it has been 10 days since I last posted, but gosh damn, we have car troubles all around.

Blew the engine in my dad's '88 vert. She was burning oil and everything, we knew she was gonna let go. And she did.

My dad's MX3, the water pump gave out, so we had to do that, and had lots of trouble. Took us a few days (did timing belt aswell)

Then my brother's 84 SE rx7 went bad, we checked a few things, turned out to be fuel pump.. Gosh damn. CARS JUST NEED TO WORK!

So, onto the case at hand... My 10th. anny. So I picked up all new fuel injector gromets, and shoved those in there. The primes fit pretty nice, but man, those seconds had a hard time getting in there. They're so freakin' soft that when around the injector, and shoved into the holes, the gromets would catch on edges and bend and not go in.. a little annoying. But I got them all in, reassembled everything AGAIN. Triple checked for any hose leaks or anything of that sort. Got in, started the car, my dad sprayed starter fluid at first, then stopped, and then the engine died, OF ******* COURSE!

So, I'm gonna do one more thing on my own and see it it works, and that is fuel pump pressure.. after that, I'm gonna give my mechanic in Newark a call, and see what he can suggest, and if all else fails, get it towed over to his shop so he can do whatever to it. It's so depressing guys... so very depressing. So when I get my *** in gear and borrow my friends pressure tester, and test the pump, I'll let you all know.

-Kanaida

Kanaida

UPDATE:

So still, after all the damn bullshit, she still isn't running. And it turns out I DID have the wrong impedance injectors in the car. So now I have these huge low impedance injectors, and I can't return them to Holley, because they won't take back injectors that have had fuel run through them. So my guy who got me hooked up with them is telling me to pull them out, drop them in alcohol - let them soak, and then try to return them.. It sucks really for me. So - My ecu is probably toast now..

So that's where I'm at. I have yet to check the fuel pressure... that will be next right after I install my new injectors. So keep your fingers crossed gang...

-K

RXSevenSymphonies

iTrader: (2)

timing super way off maybe? na.. that doesn't sound right.. sounds like a vacuum leak to me. When my dad and I were trying to start my car when bringing it back from the dead, we took the intercooler off and sprayed starting fluid directly into the intake manifold, so when the car started, it went up to 3k immediately, then died, exactly like yours. And having the intercooler off was definitely a hefty vacuum leak.

RXciting

if the timing was way off why would it start with starter fuel and not on it's own?

RXSevenSymphonies

iTrader: (2)

it did start on its own

glorthu

Maybe you don't have to return the injectors. The 86-87 cars used low impedance injectors and a resistor pack. This is from http://rotaryresurrection.com/injector.html

"More about injector impedances on 2nd generations:
1986 and 1987 model cars used low impedance(2-3 ohm) injectors. Low impedance injectors have a center notch on the plug. The wiring harness used with LI injectors integrates an injector resistor pack, wired inline between the ECU and injectors(under stock air box) to bump overall load seen at the ECU to 12-13 ohms.
1988 and later models used high impedance injectors. 1988 HI injectors have an offset notch on the plug, and all post 1988 injectors are HI with an oval plug(until 3rd generation side feed injectors which are totally different). The wiring harness on these models deleted the injector resistor pacl, carrying the 12-13 ohm load from the injectors directly to the computer."

So if your injectors are near the 2-3 ohm range, maybe you can just pick up one of these resistor packs at a junk yard.

Good luck!