Ideal 13b GT-42R Build?
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,093
Likes: 0
From: Elkland, PA
Ideal 13b GT-42R Build?
Well i have a friend with a GT-42r turbo and ive got myself a new shell to start working on so i need opinions. I was thinking a 13b-re or 13b-rew bridgeport and a haltech and all the supporting mods. I want this to be an absolutely crazy car with 700ish whp or more. I will be doing the tuning myself with the dyno that a family member and i have purchased.
Which engine should i use and why? Any other suggestions?
Also Please no suggestions of a 20b or peripheral porting. The budget for this build is between 15k and 20k.
Which engine should i use and why? Any other suggestions?
Also Please no suggestions of a 20b or peripheral porting. The budget for this build is between 15k and 20k.
ports (intakes and exhausts)
intake system
ignition system
turbochargers
application (JC Cosmo versus FD Rx-7)
for details, just run a quick search. there are a few threads on here that discuss them.
First thing you need to understand is the cost vs performance relationship. From about 250-350rwhp it's not that expensive. You can use a bolt on hybrid turbo, smallish injectors, programmable stock ECU (Rtek), and the motor basically needs no strengthening or porting. You can have a mild clutch upgrade and it will hold.
Then the costs shoot up as you go from 350 to about 450. You need a more expensive fuel system, more expensive engine management, porting becomes more important (although not necessary). You need an aftermarket turbo manifold and all that entails. Clutches start to become a limiting factor depending on what you do with the car. You need much bigger tires to keep the car on the road. Ignition system needs some kind of upgrade at that point.
When you get over about 500rwhp **** gets real. The costs shoot up at an even higher rate. You may go through a couple motors to get your set up figured out. You need an expensive fuel system with dual fuel pumps, big lines, etc. You will start breaking axles and transmissions. Since you have a vert you will probably stress the chassis significantly. Ignition system may need to be upgraded even more, plus you will need expensive race plugs. The engine internals get more important. You have to have big porting, balancing, and other race-oriented parts. Traction is basically non existant without drag radials, at least until 60mph.
If you really want that kind of power, an RE will do it more easily because of the intake ports and intake manifold. You will have to swap the exhaust sleeves though, do a search on that. You will probably want to get it dowel pinned and balanced. Basically I'd call up a reputable builder that does high end FD stuff (Petit for example) and then open your wallet.
Then look into the Haltech Platinum Sport for engine management. For injectors I would recommend the ID1000's for primary and ID 2000's for secondary with an FPR and aftermarket fuel rails, plus dual bumps and bigger fuel lines. You will need race fuel and perhaps water/methanol injection on top of that. Check out the auxiliary injection section and the single turbo section. You will most likely need a built transmission (look into a T56 swap that a few FD guys have done) and a built solid axle rear end (Ford 9") depending on what you want to do with it and how much you can tolerate breaking factory stuff.
It sounds like you pulled that 700rwhp number out of thin air. I'd budget at least $15k for a build with that kind of power. Now, if you want to do something reasonable (up to say 450rwhp) for half that cost, go with an s5 13BT. Use smaller injectors, use stock T2 tranny and rear end, skip dowel pinning and expensive apex seals etc.
Then the costs shoot up as you go from 350 to about 450. You need a more expensive fuel system, more expensive engine management, porting becomes more important (although not necessary). You need an aftermarket turbo manifold and all that entails. Clutches start to become a limiting factor depending on what you do with the car. You need much bigger tires to keep the car on the road. Ignition system needs some kind of upgrade at that point.
When you get over about 500rwhp **** gets real. The costs shoot up at an even higher rate. You may go through a couple motors to get your set up figured out. You need an expensive fuel system with dual fuel pumps, big lines, etc. You will start breaking axles and transmissions. Since you have a vert you will probably stress the chassis significantly. Ignition system may need to be upgraded even more, plus you will need expensive race plugs. The engine internals get more important. You have to have big porting, balancing, and other race-oriented parts. Traction is basically non existant without drag radials, at least until 60mph.
If you really want that kind of power, an RE will do it more easily because of the intake ports and intake manifold. You will have to swap the exhaust sleeves though, do a search on that. You will probably want to get it dowel pinned and balanced. Basically I'd call up a reputable builder that does high end FD stuff (Petit for example) and then open your wallet.
Then look into the Haltech Platinum Sport for engine management. For injectors I would recommend the ID1000's for primary and ID 2000's for secondary with an FPR and aftermarket fuel rails, plus dual bumps and bigger fuel lines. You will need race fuel and perhaps water/methanol injection on top of that. Check out the auxiliary injection section and the single turbo section. You will most likely need a built transmission (look into a T56 swap that a few FD guys have done) and a built solid axle rear end (Ford 9") depending on what you want to do with it and how much you can tolerate breaking factory stuff.
It sounds like you pulled that 700rwhp number out of thin air. I'd budget at least $15k for a build with that kind of power. Now, if you want to do something reasonable (up to say 450rwhp) for half that cost, go with an s5 13BT. Use smaller injectors, use stock T2 tranny and rear end, skip dowel pinning and expensive apex seals etc.
First thing you need to understand is the cost vs performance relationship. From about 250-350rwhp it's not that expensive. You can use a bolt on hybrid turbo, smallish injectors, programmable stock ECU (Rtek), and the motor basically needs no strengthening or porting. You can have a mild clutch upgrade and it will hold.
Then the costs shoot up as you go from 350 to about 450. You need a more expensive fuel system, more expensive engine management, porting becomes more important (although not necessary). You need an aftermarket turbo manifold and all that entails. Clutches start to become a limiting factor depending on what you do with the car. You need much bigger tires to keep the car on the road. Ignition system needs some kind of upgrade at that point.
When you get over about 500rwhp **** gets real. The costs shoot up at an even higher rate. You may go through a couple motors to get your set up figured out. You need an expensive fuel system with dual fuel pumps, big lines, etc. You will start breaking axles and transmissions. Since you have a vert you will probably stress the chassis significantly. Ignition system may need to be upgraded even more, plus you will need expensive race plugs. The engine internals get more important. You have to have big porting, balancing, and other race-oriented parts. Traction is basically non existant without drag radials, at least until 60mph.
If you really want that kind of power, an RE will do it more easily because of the intake ports and intake manifold. You will have to swap the exhaust sleeves though, do a search on that. You will probably want to get it dowel pinned and balanced. Basically I'd call up a reputable builder that does high end FD stuff (Petit for example) and then open your wallet.
Then look into the Haltech Platinum Sport for engine management. For injectors I would recommend the ID1000's for primary and ID 2000's for secondary with an FPR and aftermarket fuel rails, plus dual bumps and bigger fuel lines. You will need race fuel and perhaps water/methanol injection on top of that. Check out the auxiliary injection section and the single turbo section. You will most likely need a built transmission (look into a T56 swap that a few FD guys have done) and a built solid axle rear end (Ford 9") depending on what you want to do with it and how much you can tolerate breaking factory stuff.
It sounds like you pulled that 700rwhp number out of thin air. I'd budget at least $15k for a build with that kind of power. Now, if you want to do something reasonable (up to say 450rwhp) for half that cost, go with an s5 13BT. Use smaller injectors, use stock T2 tranny and rear end, skip dowel pinning and expensive apex seals etc.
Then the costs shoot up as you go from 350 to about 450. You need a more expensive fuel system, more expensive engine management, porting becomes more important (although not necessary). You need an aftermarket turbo manifold and all that entails. Clutches start to become a limiting factor depending on what you do with the car. You need much bigger tires to keep the car on the road. Ignition system needs some kind of upgrade at that point.
When you get over about 500rwhp **** gets real. The costs shoot up at an even higher rate. You may go through a couple motors to get your set up figured out. You need an expensive fuel system with dual fuel pumps, big lines, etc. You will start breaking axles and transmissions. Since you have a vert you will probably stress the chassis significantly. Ignition system may need to be upgraded even more, plus you will need expensive race plugs. The engine internals get more important. You have to have big porting, balancing, and other race-oriented parts. Traction is basically non existant without drag radials, at least until 60mph.
If you really want that kind of power, an RE will do it more easily because of the intake ports and intake manifold. You will have to swap the exhaust sleeves though, do a search on that. You will probably want to get it dowel pinned and balanced. Basically I'd call up a reputable builder that does high end FD stuff (Petit for example) and then open your wallet.
Then look into the Haltech Platinum Sport for engine management. For injectors I would recommend the ID1000's for primary and ID 2000's for secondary with an FPR and aftermarket fuel rails, plus dual bumps and bigger fuel lines. You will need race fuel and perhaps water/methanol injection on top of that. Check out the auxiliary injection section and the single turbo section. You will most likely need a built transmission (look into a T56 swap that a few FD guys have done) and a built solid axle rear end (Ford 9") depending on what you want to do with it and how much you can tolerate breaking factory stuff.
It sounds like you pulled that 700rwhp number out of thin air. I'd budget at least $15k for a build with that kind of power. Now, if you want to do something reasonable (up to say 450rwhp) for half that cost, go with an s5 13BT. Use smaller injectors, use stock T2 tranny and rear end, skip dowel pinning and expensive apex seals etc.
Trending Topics
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,093
Likes: 0
From: Elkland, PA
The trans and rear i have covered for a while because i have a set of chromoly axles. A cryo-treated rear and trans and a high hp driveshaft. Not saying it wont all fail at some point but i will be prepared for that.
Haltech was my EMS choice to begin with as thats what i have in my vert build.
The car will strickly be an expensive toy. The reason i want to build this is because i have accumulated about $20k since the 1st of may and now and have everything else taken care of(bills and such) so i want to splurge a little on my car.
Haltech was my EMS choice to begin with as thats what i have in my vert build.
The car will strickly be an expensive toy. The reason i want to build this is because i have accumulated about $20k since the 1st of may and now and have everything else taken care of(bills and such) so i want to splurge a little on my car.
If you have $20k you can definitely do it as long as you do it right the first time. But I think you should do it in a coupe. Verts complicate things too much. I don't know of anyone who has attempted that kind of power in one, and with good reason. You are much more likely to regret doing it in a 'vert than you will regret just getting a couple.
Have you considered a 3 rotor with that budget? You could make the power without having to do a bridgeport and run a gazillion pounds of boost. The car would have more streetable manners and better part throttle torque from the increased displacement. Check out the 3 rotor section. You can do a custom manifold with the new GTX4202 turbos using a Tial vband inlet
Have you considered a 3 rotor with that budget? You could make the power without having to do a bridgeport and run a gazillion pounds of boost. The car would have more streetable manners and better part throttle torque from the increased displacement. Check out the 3 rotor section. You can do a custom manifold with the new GTX4202 turbos using a Tial vband inlet
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 29,798
Likes: 128
From: London, Ontario, Canada
It honestly seems silly to use a 13B when looking at such power goals. To get reasonable response out of that turbo, you are into a full bridgeport and even then, would need to downshift to 6K or so RPM to be able to get reasonable response out of the turbo when you floor it. It would not be a downshift to 4K gear car that would then fry the tires to redline with that turbo on that engine.
The RE is a bit easier to install then the REW, has large port runners and large intake runners. Since you'll be porting it anyway, the stock port shapes aren't that big of a deal. As well, the RE has the stronger rear iron which will be important.
Then again, a street port 20B will make that kind of power on a 42R at about 16 PSI (wide-assed guess) so we don't have to worry about things like bridgeports.
Just out of curiosity, have you ever driven a 400+ RWHP 2nd gen?
The RE is a bit easier to install then the REW, has large port runners and large intake runners. Since you'll be porting it anyway, the stock port shapes aren't that big of a deal. As well, the RE has the stronger rear iron which will be important.
Then again, a street port 20B will make that kind of power on a 42R at about 16 PSI (wide-assed guess) so we don't have to worry about things like bridgeports.
Just out of curiosity, have you ever driven a 400+ RWHP 2nd gen?
a very valid question. On normal sized street tires they're already practically uncontrollable at this power level, especially in colder weather. Sometimes I feel like I am I taking my life into my hands when I drive my car. Seriously. Try getting sideways at 50mph and you'll see what I mean.
402rwhp in a turbo Rx-7 is not the same as 402rwhp in a 5.4 swapped Mustang. The weight, gearing, and size of the car make it a rocket. It feels like a jet taking off every time you drop the hammer.
402rwhp in a turbo Rx-7 is not the same as 402rwhp in a 5.4 swapped Mustang. The weight, gearing, and size of the car make it a rocket. It feels like a jet taking off every time you drop the hammer.
a very valid question. On normal sized street tires they're already practically uncontrollable at this power level, especially in colder weather. Sometimes I feel like I am I taking my life into my hands when I drive my car. Seriously. Try getting sideways at 50mph and you'll see what I mean.
402rwhp in a turbo Rx-7 is not the same as 402rwhp in a 5.4 swapped Mustang. The weight, gearing, and size of the car make it a rocket. It feels like a jet taking off every time you drop the hammer.
402rwhp in a turbo Rx-7 is not the same as 402rwhp in a 5.4 swapped Mustang. The weight, gearing, and size of the car make it a rocket. It feels like a jet taking off every time you drop the hammer.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 29,798
Likes: 128
From: London, Ontario, Canada
a very valid question. On normal sized street tires they're already practically uncontrollable at this power level, especially in colder weather. Sometimes I feel like I am I taking my life into my hands when I drive my car. Seriously. Try getting sideways at 50mph and you'll see what I mean.
402rwhp in a turbo Rx-7 is not the same as 402rwhp in a 5.4 swapped Mustang. The weight, gearing, and size of the car make it a rocket. It feels like a jet taking off every time you drop the hammer.
402rwhp in a turbo Rx-7 is not the same as 402rwhp in a 5.4 swapped Mustang. The weight, gearing, and size of the car make it a rocket. It feels like a jet taking off every time you drop the hammer.
Edit...and then if you think a 400HP 2nd gen is fast, build a 400HP 1st gen.
i think Arghx hit all the important technical points to consider before you commit to going down the road you've chosen. Aaron pretty much did the same thing, but with the real world perspective of it. in the end you will do what you wish (and i wish you best, regardless) but this is the time you really need to be brutally honest with yourself, not when you've grenaded a couple motors in the learning process and have burned through 2/3 of the money you now have in hand. i think the point is you're probably better off starting small (relatively) and finding that you want more, than going for the jugular and then cursing rotaries to hell when you miss the mark you chose.
i can so see that happening!
i can so see that happening!
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,093
Likes: 0
From: Elkland, PA
I know a 400whp rx7 is much faster and more intese than my shitty 402rwhp 5.4 stang
I forgot to mention before that this is going in a coupe. The vert is an all together different project which will likely get a 20b(after i sell the engine i had built for it already) but the goal for that car is to be done before my 21st bday and i have 2 years to go so no rush there.
I have driven a 450rwhp 2nd gen that a friend of the family owned and i loved it. This car when done will only be driven once in a blue moon so when i drive it i want it to put that huge grin on my face and to say ive built it. Not to mention im a supra/gtr/supercar hater so i want something to occasionally put them in their place.
I love rotaries too much to curse them to hell. Ive had 2 of them take a **** for no apprent reason other than mileage and still loved the cars to death(hence my vert is still my baby).
I forgot to mention before that this is going in a coupe. The vert is an all together different project which will likely get a 20b(after i sell the engine i had built for it already) but the goal for that car is to be done before my 21st bday and i have 2 years to go so no rush there.
I have driven a 450rwhp 2nd gen that a friend of the family owned and i loved it. This car when done will only be driven once in a blue moon so when i drive it i want it to put that huge grin on my face and to say ive built it. Not to mention im a supra/gtr/supercar hater so i want something to occasionally put them in their place.
I love rotaries too much to curse them to hell. Ive had 2 of them take a **** for no apprent reason other than mileage and still loved the cars to death(hence my vert is still my baby).
It sounds like you know what you're getting into. Good luck. You should take this to the single turbo section though, there's a lot more knowledge of very high horsepower builds there.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Jeff20B
1st Generation Specific (1979-1985)
73
Sep 16, 2018 07:16 PM
