Molotovman

iTrader: (49)

300rwhp with a N/A engine is my future goal for my S4, I'm planning now, so I can budget money for my dream engine. I've done some reading and heres what I've come up with so far.

Upgraded ignition management
Upgraded fuel injectors
Upgraded Emissions management
1/2 bridgeport
s5 rotors(S4 block)
Upgraded rotor gears
lightened pulleys


What else should I look to get, I want to get the best bang for the buck, and I don't want to overdo anything.
also, is it possible with just what i listed. Please add what you think would be good, and your price estimate.

Thanks
-Ian

gsracer

http://www.torquecentral.com/forumdisplay.php?f=11

carx7

iTrader: (31)

Not to be rude but this was *JUST* covered last week.

Unless you are planning to do a 13k RPM PP motor for race only that you are intending to rebuild on a regular basis, it is not going to happen.

If this is being built for race only I apologize, but unless otherwise specified in this forum, I asssume people are looking for street cars.

respectfully
Chris

Molotovman

iTrader: (49)

I am looking for a street car, and trying not to go turbo. If you could PM me with your suggestion Chris, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thankyou

White_FC

What you will need is......

1)A good programmable standalone fuel AND ignition ECU.

2)A very serious port, big/agressive bridge or peripheral port.

3)A mindset that doesn't mind pulling the engine down to be rebuilt every thousand or so Km's.

4)Lots of money.

Seriously, 300hp is really about near the max you can get from an N/A 2 rotor engine.
Very serious racers with very serious budgets are not very far over 300hp.

What do you want to do this for? Unless it is for a racing purpose there is not much point to doing it.

Mr. Gadget

Ditto, for the cash it will take, why not just plunge into a 20B. Why stay NA trying to achieve 300HP? Why not go turbo? Does not make sense for a streetable car.

And this has been covered twice in ten days.

nonameo

supercharge if you want to avoid turbo lag.

andrew lohaus

250 crank hp is probobly about the ceiling of any n/a 13b that could be considered reasonably streetable. any more than that and the power band will be unusable and reliability wil be the pits.

youde have to fully build a s5 sixport.

renesis rotating asembly
ported and extrude honed intake mani
big street port and aux-bridge
full exhaust
very well tuned standalone.

that still might not even do it.

thats gona be at least 5k asuming you do all the work yourself.

a tii swap and some mods will be cheaper and easier.

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

I beleive the latest HIGH compression PP motor that was dynoed by a forum member(a girl too) did around 28x or 29x at an engine dyno(conservative one) That is with Renesis rotors which have 10:1 compression. I'm sorry man but I just don't think its going to happen at all for you without a three rotor with some serious porting(large Sp smal bridgy)


Santiago

MPM

I would suggest much more reading than you already have done as well as an occasional search of the forum.

trainwreck517

iTrader: (1)

Bridge port, open exhuast, bigger injectors, stand alone, and lots of N20 (nitrogen oxide).

DEZERTE

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

Why the crazy eyes? It's not like it's a bad idea, if you want to hit that ammount of power, it's about all you can get up to there with on a budget, even if it doesn't last for very long it'll get you damn near there.

version13

Couldn't you pull off abou 300hp froma bridgeported renesis? They have 238hp, so a bridgeport job with a new fuel system should get you there.

gxlspeeder

**** just go turbo, you'll save a lot of money and time

DEZERTE

I made crazy eyes, cuz ive never heard it called "Nitrogen oxide" before.

Falcoms

300 RWHP is possible, but on an infinate budget and with about a 30 day, 1k mile rebuild timeframe on a pp engine with hardened stationary gears, stand alone fuel injection system, nitrous, full bridgeport on the side housing, forced induction air intake, and a slew of other items that will be needed to sustain 15k RPM in that engine.

I do know this from experiance, my friend has built and raced a 3 rotor pp engine, purpose built, in a 3rd gen body (originally 2 gen, but with a tube frame, it don't matter) racing in the American LeMans series. We successfully cought the car on fire 3 times during that event, because the exhaust was that for the 2 rotor and it: melted the fiberglass, melted the tail light and cought it on fire, boiled the fuel in the fuel cell, caused the cold fuel going into the fuel cell to spray out and burst into flame, and melted the welds on the muffler. Hey, I never said he was smart, just that he did it

Mr. Gadget

so how much are you willing to dump into this car? i have about 4K in a vert I am restoring for my daughter (without the cost of the body) just to get near 185-200 hp. 300 Hp would not be a canadate for used anything in the motor - too loose at the revs you will pull......

Mr. Gadget

so how much are you willing to dump into this car? i have about 4K in a vert I am restoring for my daughter (without the cost of the body) just to get near 185-200 hp. 300 Hp would not be a canadate for used anything in the motor - too loose at the revs you will pull......

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

Yeah, a bit odd. Though kind of 'correct' and 'incorrect' I guess, since nitrous just implies it's made up of or relating to nitrogen, but at the same time it kind of gives you the impression it's only nitrogen. Oh well. The cost is going to be more than just an engine, scattershield, flywheel/etc that'll hold up to those RPM's, probably converting the drivetrain over since the N/A more than likely won't handle 300 (mine's having some issues just holding 250). Basically it'll cost far more and be less reliable than a turbo would pushing twice that ammount.

88IntegraLS

The only NA 13B engines I have ever heard of that make >300 crank (not wheel) horsepower are Mazdatrix peripheral port race engines, and they make that power at like 12k rpm.

I highly doubt the most modded half bridge, or even full bridge NA 13B will approach that. Check out another thread in 'rotary performance' about a peripheral port engine that Lassie Wankel got ~285 crank horsepower out of.

It would be much easier to get 300 to the wheels with turbo or a V8 swap (and a whole lot more power under the curve, not to mention power earlier in the rpm range).

87na

iTrader: (-1)

If you wanna stay rotary i would say go p-port but there is alot of maitenance that coms along with it, http://www.mazdatrix.com/r-20.htm
http://home.iprimus.com.au/bluey3/portsPage/ports.htm

Or just go v8 swap, www.grannysspeedshop.com or www.hinsonsupercars.com

NZConvertible

If you want to know what it would take to make 300hp at the wheels (that what he said he wants) with only two rotors, then look at the Le Mans winning R26B 4-rotor engine, which made ~700hp. A 2-rotor built to exactly the same specs should make ~350hp, or ~300 at the wheels.

An engine like that would not only cost a small fortune, but it would be undrivable of the street and wouldn't even fit in the engine bay due to the massive variable-length intake system. This intake and the 3-plug-per-rotor ignition system were in no small part respsonsible for the R26B having the highest specific power output of any non-turbo Mazda rotary. Without these massively expensive systems you can kiss a bunch of power goodbye.

Hopefully now you've realised how unlikely it is that you will ever achieve this goal. If you want 300rwhp then give up the pipe dreams and get a 20B or a turbo.

version13

How did they make the Le Mans?

And does anyone have any information regarding it? All I know is in '92 that mazda spanked everyone and wasnt invited back or something.

White_FC

Money