christi

Hi all...


(quite frankly upset....).

Was just going to go out to do my daily routine... I turned on the car.... took it out of gear (Like I normally would) and "BAM" I hear something hit sometihng else within the motor... car stalls. I'm like "wtf" .. and try to re-start. Nope.. no go.

Does this mean she's lost her life? If so, how much do rebuilds cost?

Anyone have any ideas?

edit:

I checked the rad cap, and it has coolant in there (ie: no oil) and checked my oil and has oil in there (ie: no coolant)

Checked the fan to be sure nothing broke up in there - all is fine.

Checked underneathe the car, and through the tailpipes to see if an apex seal decided to pass through there. Nope. All clear.

Anything else I should look into before totally saying the engine is bye bye?

It only had 183k or so miles on it.

Christi

1988 gxl "Lived a happy life...."

Pinfield357

you can get an alright rebuild for little over a grand

eViLRotor

iTrader: (2)

First step should always be a compression test. Takes 10 minutes, and you'll know...

christi

How can I do a compression test if the car won't even start?

Nick86

iTrader: (1)

When you say it wont go - does that mean it won't start - or wont even turn over?

As eViL said, a compression test is the first thing to do. Take a quick look in the engine bay for things that have come loose. If a your AC/ALT/PS belt broke, it would make a 'Bam' noise - so make sure they are all intact. Honestly it could just be flooded because it stalled right after startup. (optimistic approach) Before you do the compression test, crank the engine a few times without the EGI fuse and sperkplugs out. If it has flooded, you will get lower compression numbers than you should be getting!

Good luck! *fingers crossed*

eViLRotor

iTrader: (2)

Are you saying it won't even turn over?
Its completey seized-up?

banzaitoyota

Is it locked up? put a 19mm socket on the front pulley bolt and try to manually rotate the engine

SureShot

The quick compression test.
Pull the fuse like the unflooding procedure.
Crank the engine & listen carefully to the starter gear sound.
The starter gear sound surges with each compression, so you should hear sets of 6 very even surges.

If every other surge is weak - one rotor is bad.
If two of 6 are weak, an apex seal is bad.

christi

Won't turn over at all.

My dad thought maybe something knocked out of place - I put it in gear, took the brake off, as he rocked her a bit.. tried to crank again no go.

I'm not sure if it is siezed up or not.


As of right now I'm printing out this .. and doing what has been posted. I'll tell you guys how it goes.


I seriously am highly upset over this

SureShot

Hey - It's just a motor..

It may be time for "Rotary Resurection"

And - wouldn't a port job be nice?

dr0x

So does the motor turn over if you put a 19mm socket on the front pulley and crank it by hand?

Jodoolin

Be optimistic. Best case scenario is carbon lock. Remote possibility you might be able to unlock. However, one of the worst things to do with carbon lock is to rock the car in gear or try to turn it over by any technique. I have not had the problem but have read a ton of posts here on it. Suggest you do a good search on carbon lock to select the best way to test and try fix.

If not carbon lock its prolly seal(s) and the rotor kaput. Time for rebuild.

Good luck.

christi

Haven't gotten there yet.

I'm having problems taking off the shroud. It's not coming loose.

Mark'sMazda

Try taking out the starter when you turn over the motor by hand. It could be jammed.

This is kinda dumb, but you have a fully charged battery right?

88IntegraLS

Usually when the engine goes "bam" when being turned over by the starter, there is something either stuck in the gears of the starter / flywheel or something inside the engine's moving parts. Try rotating the engine backwards with your hand or a wrench. Sometimes there is carbon deposits (thanks to the stock metering oil pump) which cake the rotor to a degree which causes the rotor to actually scrape the housing in one place, just above the spark plug holes. If a piece of carbon broke loose and got stuck in that very tight area, the engine would go "bam" and not turn over.

Before you try to start the engine again, I would recommend taking off the exhaust manifold and getting one of those dentists' mirrors so you can see into the exhaust ports. By looking in there, after you get the engine to turn over backwards by hand, you can look at the apex seals and see if any are chipped. Or you could just do a compression test after you get the engine freed up.

If you can't get the engine to move by hand or with a wrench (and don't force it with the wrench, be gentle), you can get some marvel mystery oil or automatic transmission fluid and soak the inside of the engine down with it. You can get a oil pump (made for filling the transmission with oil, screws on the top of the oil quart containers) and inject the automatic trans. fluid into the top spark plug holes, intake manifold, and exhaust ports. If you let it all soak overnight and try to turn the engine by hand again, you can see if it is "carbon lock", when pieces of carbon break loose and jamb behind an apex seal or between the rotor and housing, making the engine seem "stuck", not allowing the starter to turn it over.

Worse case scenario would be the need for a rebuilt engine (around 1000 plus shipping), which would take about 10-20 hours to change, depending on your level of skill with car repairs.

Sorry to hear about this. I know how you feel and I am sure a lot of us do.

christi

Ok, well after 3 hours of trying to figure out the
problem... we found it. Car siezed up.

We did various of test to see if it was either the
starter or really.. a lock up.

Did what most said: Push start. All it did was lock
the tires and frozed them....


The last test was trying to start it manually. Took a
socket and tried to turn it manually with the
pulley... nope.. no go.

I don't have the money as of now to do a rebuild, so
I'm looking into a reiable car for now. I'm still
gonna keep my 7. I was looking into Pineapple Racing
and their rebuild motors - thinking of going that
way...but won't happen until the first of the year.

Argh. A sad day... I'm sad. Even though it's just a
car.. she meant something to me

Anyway giving you a update.

edit:

88Integ: Just read your post after I posted....

we tried to turn it back and forth, but it wouldn't budge. Had a 14 inch break over handle on the socket and we couldn't budge the engine at all - would not budge.

Which way should you be turning the engine? Clockwise or Counter Clockwise?

Christi
"RIP to my GXL - siezed up at 1:30pm CST Friday Sept 5"

Jodoolin

Gave up on the carbon lock thing huh? With all your manipulations and push start attempt if it was a carbon chunk its pretty well jamed in now. Since you are willing to give up and have nothing to loose otherwise, why not pour a few ounces of atf or mmo into each spark plug hole then let it sit for several days. That done try turning the engine counter clockwise to maybe dislodge junk if it was there in the first place.

Nothing ventured nothing gained.

christi

We didn't give up. Did what a few people said: Take a 19mm socket and try to manually start it. It wouldn't budge - hence the tires locking up when trying to push start it. I'm not real happy on trying to hurt her even more.


Tomorrow (late now) we'll be doing the MMO into each spark plug hole.. and allow it to set for a few days. Hopefully that'll unsieze (?) it.

I do, however want to thank you guys for your replies and help. Been thankful.


Two questions:

If you do the MMO, by any chance will in unlock it and allow it to turn over again?


And , would it be a smart idea to tear down the engine to see what really happen? Would PAR, Pettit, Aktiens , etc .. still rebuild the engine if we've torn it down to take a look at it?

1adzam

"And , would it be a smart idea to tear down the engine to see what really happen? Would PAR, Pettit, Aktiens , etc .. still rebuild the engine if we've torn it down to take a look at it?"

Most shops want the core back in one piece. But I know what you mean... it would be nice to know "what" went wrong.

Sorry to hear about your loss. These cars DO have soul and when they die it's heartbreaking. But 186k... she had a long life and CAN be reborn!!! Good luck

Anarx

ya know i'm going to say go the next mile with the MMO take off the intake manafold too and pour some into thouse openings if you can get some in the exhaust manafold too do that..

if this stuff works *please let it work* that way its hiting all the seals and not just 2.. and while your waiting on that might as well drop the trannk and check the flywheel... take the starter down to a good auto parts store like Checcker, Shucks, or Kragen and have them test it for you..

i dont think this is the end.. for a engine to really seize up it can only be a few things.. barrings gave out locking it up.. this will deffently be a rebuild posably major.. the seals litterly weld to the housings the engine would have to of more then just simply over heat for this to happen.. or a carbon chunk locks it up.. there are a few other things that can happen..

its probably something simple *i hope* its doubtful that it just seized up when you where just cranking it to start.. you probably just knocked off a peice of carbon..

how lets just say this mmo does the trick for you...
from now on use K&N oil felters ONLY dont use the fram crap witch is litterly made in taiwan.. and at least for a while put some MMO in every oil change..

Jess

BTW i work at an autoparts store i know what this stuff does really well.. and just trust me on the filter

badbu68

could have had the starter motor stuck on engage, might want to check.

christi

Is it the top or bottom spark plugs that you put the ATF fluid in?

Jodoolin

Convention suggests only the lower plug holes. But that wisdom is for the unflodding trick. Since you are in last resort mode I would use both leading and trailing plug holes and be liberal in the amount you use. Consider putting the plugs back in while you let it rest to prevent fluid from oozing out.

Also, I'd give Anarax's post serious consideration about using the intake ports as well. Ya never know.

You will have to go through the unflood procedure once it has sat for several days. If it will turn over of course.
If it does turn over, make sure you have a full battery charge cuz you may have to repeat the unflood procedure several times since there has been so much MMO and you may have pretty much lost all compression. If so, you will hear it spin like crazy and there will be no pressure puffs out the plug holes. Be patient cuz it may take a while to clear the MMO and restore compression.

Good luck.

Mark'sMazda

Did you remove the starter and try to rotate it by hand? I have seen a starter jam, and the car acted just as you describe.

christi

update:

ATF is in there. Will beable to check sometime around Monday to see if she'll get into gear.

I have not done the starter, but as soon as my dad comes home, I believe we'll be doing that. (I can't do it myself due to messed up arm atm . )

The things you've guys have said (the starter jam) I so hope it is.

My question:

How can it jam up near the fly wheel? Is it a cause where it was installed wrong?
I guess I kind of understand?