JasonS

iTrader: (62)

88 GTU LS1/T56...

I'm looking at Brembo front rotors, hawk hps pads front/rear, and ss brake lines front/rear. Anyone know of a good place to purchase everything for a reasonable price? I hate paying shipping several times over.
Suggestions for this set-up?
Any of been ripped off by the ebay ss lines or powerslot rotors?

Thanks!
~Jason

Black91n/a

You don't need fancy rotors, the ones from NAPA (or whatever other parts store) are more than enough. Slots and cross drilling reduce the surface area, reducing stopping power, holes cause the rotors to crack much sooner than plain rotors. Unless there's something wrong with the rotors you've got there won't be any improvement in braking with new ones I'd not chance it on eBay SS lines, unless they're name brand, then it should be ok, but the parts store can probably order some in at the same time as they order new rotors and/or pads. HPS pads are probably a good choice for hard street use. It's also a good idea to use high temp brake fluid, and keep it clean, flush it every year or two at the most.

In the end it's the tires that stop the car, a good set of tiresis essential for good braking. If you can lock up your tires, then better brakes won't do anyting for your stopping distances.

You can get brakes lines and pads from any number of online retalers, Tire Rack, Racing Beat, Mazdatrix, Corksport, and many others.

LittleCon

if you have about $5k try project mu lol

JasonS

iTrader: (62)

Good info...thank you!
I had heard of people having noise issues with the hawk pads and thought going with brembo rotors might help...

comradegiant

Hawk pads squeal, for sure. But its worth it for the stopping power.

I would have died when I crashed my FB if I hadn't had hawks on it. Got me from 70 or so down to 25 damn quick.

Rotary Noob

You can cut the squealing with a compound...dont remember the name, just that it was red, and came in a spray can. We used it at the mistu dealer i worked at, the pads on MR's squeal like no tomorrow when they are fresh. Put that stuff on there, and it knocks it right off. Wish i could help more about the product, but i dont remember the name.

LittleCon

my hawks don't squeal that much, just a little at low speeds

Dak

I've got Hawk HPS pads on the front of mine. I don't recall them ever squealing. They don't right now. I've had them on the car probably 4 years. They do dust abit though

buttsjim

Although I agree with most of Black91's reply, I don't think he's entirely correct in stating that you only need enough brakes to lock up the tires, because he's not accounting for "fade".

The statement is true initially but, under most braking, the tires continue to roll rather than lock up. So, the discs are also rotating, and the friction between the pad and disc is continuing to generate heat. Since braking works by turning kinetic energy into heat energy, it's the disc's ability to dissipate the heat that determines how well it works.

Assume you're going down a very long grade, with lots of braking. As the brakes heat up, they have less and less capacity to handle the additional heat from continued braking, so their effectiveness drops off, and braking distances increase. And, eventually, the brakes lose their ability to lock the tires.

Many people won't notice that effect in normal driving, but it's nevertheless true.

importedboi

Endless brake kits all the way.

poor_red_neck

My hawk hps pads squeaked...

As far as that red spray goes, that has nothing to do with it. The hawk pads squeak because of the compound they're made from. The red spray is used for the shitty 15 dollar brake pads from advance auto because they don't come with any backing... the pads move in the caliper. The red spray acts as a "glue." OEM pads have a soft metal backing that "squishes" into the caliper arms to keep it from moving.


As far as performance pads go... you're either going to have alot of dust, or alot of noise. No noise, no dust, shitty brakes.

Black91n/a

Well I did say mention fresh high temp fluid, that goes a long way to stopping fade. Plus those HPS pads are much better than most at resisting fade. There are in fact two different kinds of fade, one is where the pads overheat and the friction drops off, reducing stopping power, the other is when the brake fluid boils and causes the pedal to go soft, reducing pad pressure, reducing stopping power.

As long as fade isn't an issue, then if the brakes can lock up the tires, no more powerful brakes will stop the car any faster. Tires stop the car, not the brakes.

As for low dust, low noise pads, apparently EBC Greenstuffs are good for that.

I've used HP+'s on the street and they weren't too bad for noise, I'd get the occasional squeal on light brake pressure, but they did dust a lot.

Properly bedding in new pads is crutial to getting the most out of them.

rotorhead_izzy

iTrader: (36)

my hawk hps pads sqeak like hell, but only when i'm at about 10 mph or less. it gets really annoying while town driving. but i do agree that they are great pads.

vipers

iTrader: (8)

i bought endless front brake pads... no squeel what-so-ever...

Wankel7

For stopping power do this ....

Best tires you can afford
SS brake lines
Pads

I have the HP+ pads and once you get some heat in them they stop with the quickness. However, they dust sooo bad. If you have nice rims I would not get them unless you clean them often. The squeal sometimes at slow speed. Totally worth it considering how well the pads work.

James

Black91n/a

^ SS brake lines have NOTHING to do with stopping. The only thing they'll do (and this is debatable) is to give slightly better feel.

Wankel7

And with feel means you can modulate the brakes better and your most likely going to be able to bring the car to stop with out locking them up a little easier. That could contribute to stopping better.

And replacing rubber hoses on a car that 10+ years old...can't see how that would not help?

Icemark

I do not ever recommend Braided SS brake lines unless you wish to replace the line every couple of years.

They are for racing applications and will not give you any better feel than a good set of new OEM lines (which are generally less than the SS lines), and you won't have to worry about the line delaminating or breaking due to dust and dirt working through the braid (non covered braided SS lines).

Wankel7

So, if you buy a SS brake line with the plastic sheathing ... you would recommend that over stock?

James

Icemark

NO. I do not recommend SS braided brake lines for street driven vehicles, even if they are plastic coated.

I did used to say that I thought the plastic coated ones were okay, until seeing another car come in with the 3 of the 4 lines broken internally, and the plastic coating (which was swelling under pressure) was the only thing holding the brake fluid in.

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

gah!!!!

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

I use HPS pads with stock everything else, and I have only experienced fade once, and that was on purpose. I got on a long straight deserted road and accellerated to 120, then braked at the limit to 50, then repeated until I noticed fade. It took 4 or 5 cycles of this to experience and difference in pedal effort or feel. This is why I say that all you will ever need for a street driven car is upgraded pads, assuming you have the good braking system (vented rotors, etc) from the turbo cars and whatnot. If you track it, just high temp brake fluid and Hawk Black/Blue (front/rear) pads and it will be fine. That is what the previous owner used when he tracked it an never experienced fade.
And Icemark: is that true even for DOT legal lines? I thought they were ok for street use.

My5ABaby

iTrader: (7)

NOW I find this out after I put them on...

SSRx7

The reason rotors are slotted and/or cross drilled is not for heat. It is actually to release the buildup of gases generated under heavy braking. These gases can actually cause the pad to "float" over the rotor, giving brake fade. The slots and holes dispense the gases away from the pad.

From truck driving experience, brakes get hotter under quick heavy use rather than long light use. In other words, if you are going down a long hill, and brake heavily to quickly reduce speed, the temps on the brakes skyrocket. If you use a light steady pressure all the way down the hill, it generates less heat. It took me a couple of cheek clenching rides down long mountains with 80,000 lbs to learn this. Common sense dictates that this is not rational, but trust me, it is.

In racing purposes, brakes are used hot and heavy. This is why race cars have pads that work better hot than when cool, and why race cars have cross drilled and slotted rotors. The heat generates the hot gasses between the pads and rotors. If street driven cars were to use racing pads, it would be very dangerous, because the pads are not working as well because they are too cool. In an emergency situation, the pads are not hot enough to stop the vehicle quickly. This is why street cars (daily drivers) are equipped with pads that work better when cool, and why when a car with factory street pads is driven hard, the driver experiences more fade.

As far as brake lines go, I have no experience with braded lines. But new oem quality line are alot better than 20 year old lines. Problem is that the rubber lines swell in weak spots, and the brake fluid is being used to fill this swollen area, rather than to push the caliper piston out to apply the brakes.


As far as brake fluid is concerned, there is a temperature level that brake fluid will boil (the boiling point). When the fluid gets hot enough to boil, it creates air bubbles in the fluid. While fluid cannot be compressed, air bubbles can. This is what is you are actually feeling when you pedal becomes spongy after alot of hard braking. The air bubbles are compressing as you push the pedal down. You are not applying the brakes as hard because the air bubbles act like a cushion to the fluid.
You would be surprised to learn that the boiling point of most brake fluid is actually out of spec within a year of putting it in your car. Also, brake fluid absorbs moisture. So if you have old fluid in your system, you have moisture in all your steel brake components, rusting them away from the inside out. Brake fluid can even absorb moisture through the plastic bottles it comes in, so you want to get the newest bottles you can find.

Another thing that most people don't do is check your rotor thickness. Most people just change pads and think they are done. There is a minimum limit to rotor thickness, (the spec is almost always cast into the inside or outside of the rotor). You can get a digital calipers for about $35.00 which will acurately measure the thickness. If it is less than .4 mm from the minimum, I replace them (I work on police cars at the city motorpool, so I change ALOT of brakes!! ). If they are within spec, you should at least turn them (machine them true) to get rid of any warpage. Front rotors are a must, rears, depends on how hard you are on them. Turning them also gets rid of the glaze on the rotor surface whick hampers braking efficiency.

Hope this little bit of info helps. I know most of you probly know this stuff already, I just post it for those who don't already know. Information is a life saving gold mine.


Later,
Bill

Black91n/a

^ Your information is out of date. That's why they used to cross drill rotors, modern pads don't aff gas like the old pads used to, so now there's no need for cross drilling. Trust me, go to a race and look at the rotors, they're solid on at least 90% of the cars. Race pads work on the street, but they're noizy and dusty, so it's not good to use them there, but they'll stop the car just fine, I know from firshand experiance. I also know that plain rotors will stop the car just fine without floating the pads on a gas layer, also from firsthand experiance on the track.

This has been debated to death, all reputable sources of information say that I'm right and cross drilled rotors do squat for performance.