Hypothetical: Turbo N/A S5 - Cheap, low boost. How to:
04-07-09, 09:04 AM
#1
Hypothetical: Turbo N/A S5 - Cheap, low boost. How to:
Ok Guys,
I had this idea yesterday. I have a few too many rx7s around and was thinking. Now before you get your flamethrowers out just have a listen.
I was thinking of buying a cheap manifold from ebay or a stock manifold, a small turbo in the classifieds and running one on the NA.
Now before you guys go nuts and say the manifolds suck and you get what you pay for, and the NA drivetrain wont handle the power, I would not be looking to make more than a stock s5 turbo, or maybe slightly more, maybe 225 or so. I would like just a little extra scoot since I have the car to do it on.
I am thinking of the bare minimum I would need. I know this **** has probably been covered a few times and I should just search, but I am trying to be a little more specific as to the most cost effective way to do it.
With my goals being minimal and wanting to do everything pretty much bolt on what would I need?
Here is what I am thinking:
A stock s5 manifold and turbo. I would port and mod the manifold/wastegate slightly?
Block off the fifth/sixth ports?
Block off emissions
Get an apex'i n1 exhaust cheap from my friend dan?
Now I should have enough in the stock fuel system to handle the power.
A nicer clutch should also do the job.
Run an oil line to the turbo
I'll have to find a way to run a cheap front mount intercooler.
I need a cheap option for fuel management, modding or swapping to a t2 computer.
Guys my power goals are minimal and I have access to the stuff I need, so let me know. Thanks-
I had this idea yesterday. I have a few too many rx7s around and was thinking. Now before you get your flamethrowers out just have a listen.
I was thinking of buying a cheap manifold from ebay or a stock manifold, a small turbo in the classifieds and running one on the NA.
Now before you guys go nuts and say the manifolds suck and you get what you pay for, and the NA drivetrain wont handle the power, I would not be looking to make more than a stock s5 turbo, or maybe slightly more, maybe 225 or so. I would like just a little extra scoot since I have the car to do it on.
I am thinking of the bare minimum I would need. I know this **** has probably been covered a few times and I should just search, but I am trying to be a little more specific as to the most cost effective way to do it.
With my goals being minimal and wanting to do everything pretty much bolt on what would I need?
Here is what I am thinking:
A stock s5 manifold and turbo. I would port and mod the manifold/wastegate slightly?
Block off the fifth/sixth ports?
Block off emissions
Get an apex'i n1 exhaust cheap from my friend dan?
Now I should have enough in the stock fuel system to handle the power.
A nicer clutch should also do the job.
Run an oil line to the turbo
I'll have to find a way to run a cheap front mount intercooler.
I need a cheap option for fuel management, modding or swapping to a t2 computer.
Guys my power goals are minimal and I have access to the stuff I need, so let me know. Thanks-
04-07-09, 09:12 AM
#2
Engine, Not Motor
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If you intend to run the stock TII exhaust manifold, you either need to make a spacer to clear the NA lower intake, or move to the TII intake manifolds.
Your basic plan seems fine. There is a good amount of fab necessary to use an exhaust spacer since it moves the turbo from the stock location.
Your basic plan seems fine. There is a good amount of fab necessary to use an exhaust spacer since it moves the turbo from the stock location.
04-07-09, 09:54 AM
#4
I did some more reading. See I am not looking to go nuts like Aarons setup. Just some modest power gains. The labor is no problem at all. I do it all myself and more stuff to keep me away from the old lady the better.
So I would need a spacer for the manifold, I would need to run the oil lines, but I didn't really think the oil lines would be that expensive. I can deal with a 100 bucks, but anything over that is sort of pointless.
I want to bargain hunt, build it and document it.
So I will need s5 turbo manifold/turbo-
Spacer
Oil Cooler lines
PFC for the fuel?
I will need some other small things like a boost guage, stuff like that. Bigger injectors. I mean I know this has been covered a few times and I was reading other threads, im not a newb either.
I didnt get much sleep either last night, so that probably lends to my stupid question factor.
So I would need a spacer for the manifold, I would need to run the oil lines, but I didn't really think the oil lines would be that expensive. I can deal with a 100 bucks, but anything over that is sort of pointless.
I want to bargain hunt, build it and document it.
So I will need s5 turbo manifold/turbo-
Spacer
Oil Cooler lines
PFC for the fuel?
I will need some other small things like a boost guage, stuff like that. Bigger injectors. I mean I know this has been covered a few times and I was reading other threads, im not a newb either.
I didnt get much sleep either last night, so that probably lends to my stupid question factor.
04-07-09, 10:25 AM
#6
Ok is the spacer something I can buy or something I would have to make?
I would cut the actuator off and mount it to the engine bay and use the bicycle cable to keep it working so I wouldnt have to notch the frame.
I would also tap the oil from the pressure sender as it leaks and needs to be replaced anyways.
I would also tap a return, though weak, it would work with an AN fitting.
I would cut the actuator off and mount it to the engine bay and use the bicycle cable to keep it working so I wouldnt have to notch the frame.
I would also tap the oil from the pressure sender as it leaks and needs to be replaced anyways.
I would also tap a return, though weak, it would work with an AN fitting.
04-07-09, 10:37 AM
#7
Super Raterhater
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Make. And if you use a S5 turbo, you'll hit your frame rail when you space it.
You'll need to either use a S4 turbo/spacer, come up with a more 'creative' spacer that allows the S5 to fit without hitting the frame rails, or swap to the TII LIM/UIM.
Pretty much the bare minimum would be some kind of ECU, fuel pump, at LEAST 550 injectors all around, clutch, oil feed/returns, and some hackjob intercooler. Everything else is straightforward.
You'll need to either use a S4 turbo/spacer, come up with a more 'creative' spacer that allows the S5 to fit without hitting the frame rails, or swap to the TII LIM/UIM.
Pretty much the bare minimum would be some kind of ECU, fuel pump, at LEAST 550 injectors all around, clutch, oil feed/returns, and some hackjob intercooler. Everything else is straightforward.
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04-07-09, 02:12 PM
#9
Becoming pure track...
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Why block off the aux. ports?
They would allow for more torque down low, and then just open them when the turbo starts to spool. Can be done electronically with Summit racing RPM switch. Cheap.
You don't need all that much opened at lower RPM when the turbo isn't spooled at all.
They would allow for more torque down low, and then just open them when the turbo starts to spool. Can be done electronically with Summit racing RPM switch. Cheap.
You don't need all that much opened at lower RPM when the turbo isn't spooled at all.
04-07-09, 02:20 PM
#10
i read that. I would leave the aux ports. My mistake.
Pretty straight forward then. Or I could simply use an s4 turbo manifold with s4 turbo. Probably cheaper to find on the forums. I would also need to fab a downpipe with an 02 sensor bung. Hmm.
Now it is just a matter of pricing it all out. Cool. Thanks guys-
Pretty straight forward then. Or I could simply use an s4 turbo manifold with s4 turbo. Probably cheaper to find on the forums. I would also need to fab a downpipe with an 02 sensor bung. Hmm.
Now it is just a matter of pricing it all out. Cool. Thanks guys-
04-07-09, 02:25 PM
#11
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Why block off the aux. ports?
They would allow for more torque down low, and then just open them when the turbo starts to spool. Can be done electronically with Summit racing RPM switch. Cheap.
You don't need all that much opened at lower RPM when the turbo isn't spooled at all.
They would allow for more torque down low, and then just open them when the turbo starts to spool. Can be done electronically with Summit racing RPM switch. Cheap.
You don't need all that much opened at lower RPM when the turbo isn't spooled at all.
04-07-09, 02:37 PM
#12
Hopeless Rotorhead
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Ive been giving something like this serious consideration as well. Aside from the mounting issues to work out, would the N/a computer freak out when the map read boost? If so, couldn't you just put a check valve in that line and use a rising rate fuel pressure regulator to add the extra fuel you would need under boost? Would prolly be a good idea to use some kind of piggyback management as well, emanage blue is super cheap and should get the job done. If you had the cash you could even get the greddy pressure sensor and not let your factory ecu see the boost at all.
Forgot about the huge actuators.
04-07-09, 02:41 PM
#14
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Ive been giving something like this serious consideration as well. Aside from the mounting issues to work out, would the N/a computer freak out when the map read boost? If so, couldn't you just put a check valve in that line and use a rising rate fuel pressure regulator to add the extra fuel you would need under boost? Would prolly be a good idea to use some kind of piggyback management as well, emanage blue is super cheap and should get the job done. If you had the cash you could even get the greddy pressure sensor and not let your factory ecu see the boost at all.
04-07-09, 03:02 PM
#15
Hopeless Rotorhead
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It doesn't 'freak' out, or do much of anything really. It just never pulls timing back, which can get ugly depending upon the available fuel/EGT/IAT/etc. I was running 10psi on a S4 N/A ecu with just an S-AFC 4x550's and a FD fuel pump. I had a semi-decent FMIC and it was running about 11:1 though.
04-08-09, 12:50 AM
#16
Yeah I don't really see how this is different from Aaron's setup. Unless you're referring to his current setup, his original project consisted of all the parts you are mentioning. The oil and coolant lines are not going to cost you $200, not even half. You will need a 3 foot oil line 1/8" NPTX2 with a swivel fitting on one end that you can get from a hydraulic store for about $40. Remove the stock supply line and tap for 1/8". For the drain and coolant lines you can cut the stock lines off and run hoses/clamps. All stock coolant lines are run this way. The oil drain has no pressure whatsoever but is subjected to manifold heat so buy a braided hose online for about $20 and use clamps.
BTW I have a spacer for sale for $30+shipping.
BTW I have a spacer for sale for $30+shipping.
04-08-09, 04:44 AM
#17
why not just get a cheap J-Spec motor for about 800 on ebay if you are going to do it cheap and ghetto (run the na electrical?)
i would probably run T2 manifolds at the minimum for the na motor... spacers just seem... kinda ghetto to me...
and it is still the "wrong" way of doing it....
and you need to find a way to run the coolant line and oil drain.... oil feed - just run a T at the oil press sender...
just do a real swap.... or just run true duals... they just look cool and sound cool... or paint every pulley you see and every part to make it look faster like all the NA guys....
i would probably run T2 manifolds at the minimum for the na motor... spacers just seem... kinda ghetto to me...
and it is still the "wrong" way of doing it....
and you need to find a way to run the coolant line and oil drain.... oil feed - just run a T at the oil press sender...
just do a real swap.... or just run true duals... they just look cool and sound cool... or paint every pulley you see and every part to make it look faster like all the NA guys....
04-08-09, 07:04 AM
#19
Smoke moar
He can do it cheaply and keep working it up better, +1 for the 6port turbo (My plans once got a m/t)
-1 on the spacer, and japan2la has the thing you'll need so you dont need the spacer right?
-1 on the spacer, and japan2la has the thing you'll need so you dont need the spacer right?
04-08-09, 10:19 AM
#20
Yeah I am trying to do it as cheap as possible, not necessarily because I am broke, but mostly for the sake of doing it and doing a write up of my own on it, and how low I can go. My expectations are not high.
I am definitely not looking for ALOT of power or something I can abuse.
You guys remember that story of guy who traded a paperclip for other stuff until he eventually got a house?
I feel like in a way I am trying something similar, just to build something decent myself, as cheap as possible, but decent.
An example. For my fc that I am ls1 swapping and widebodying I would have spent massive amounts of money if I bought everything at price
I have an ls1 with 28k, mounting kit, widebody kit, carbon fiber adjustable racing seats, 2 18x 9.5 fno1rc's with brand new tires, just need the other two.
For all of the above I paid $2675 for. Ur lucky to get even an LS1 for that much alone, more or less the other ****.
So with that being said, I'm looking more to do a "guys, hey look what I managed to do type deal"
The plumbing sucks thought, but if it HAS to be done then it has to be done.
And I have no interest in buying a jspec motor and not knowing what you get, and then having to rebuild ****.
If I was going to do that then I would do it on this vert I am doing an LS1 swap into.
Lets try to imagine a cheapest total cost here with low expectations.
S-afc= $100 ?
Oil lines= $200
s5 turbo and manifold= $150
Ghettocooler= $125
Injectors=$100
So around 7-800 bucks on the cheapest side of things? And I mean after doing some serious bargain hunting, not just what you would normally pay. Plus you have to pay for all of this little nickle and dime stuff over time, but lets not account for that.
I am definitely not looking for ALOT of power or something I can abuse.
You guys remember that story of guy who traded a paperclip for other stuff until he eventually got a house?
I feel like in a way I am trying something similar, just to build something decent myself, as cheap as possible, but decent.
An example. For my fc that I am ls1 swapping and widebodying I would have spent massive amounts of money if I bought everything at price
I have an ls1 with 28k, mounting kit, widebody kit, carbon fiber adjustable racing seats, 2 18x 9.5 fno1rc's with brand new tires, just need the other two.
For all of the above I paid $2675 for. Ur lucky to get even an LS1 for that much alone, more or less the other ****.
So with that being said, I'm looking more to do a "guys, hey look what I managed to do type deal"
The plumbing sucks thought, but if it HAS to be done then it has to be done.
And I have no interest in buying a jspec motor and not knowing what you get, and then having to rebuild ****.
If I was going to do that then I would do it on this vert I am doing an LS1 swap into.
Lets try to imagine a cheapest total cost here with low expectations.
S-afc= $100 ?
Oil lines= $200
s5 turbo and manifold= $150
Ghettocooler= $125
Injectors=$100
So around 7-800 bucks on the cheapest side of things? And I mean after doing some serious bargain hunting, not just what you would normally pay. Plus you have to pay for all of this little nickle and dime stuff over time, but lets not account for that.
04-08-09, 01:00 PM
#23
Becoming pure track...
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Is the stock pump near max? I know for low boost, the RX runs normally rich. Maybe just a little extra open times on the injectors won't effect the pump too much. But, I don't have any hard evidence. I have a 225 regulated by an external fpr.
04-08-09, 03:04 PM
#24
Im not really sure. That is why I am throwing this out there. I mean I wont be running way too much boost or fuel that the stock NA pump couldnt handle but in all honesty I really dont know. I am sure I can scrounge another used cheap pump for not too much.