Ice_Wolf

That's what I meant. Of course you're not supposed to run the system completely dry and then try to get the new **** in.

Ice_Wolf

Well, so far the suggested brands have been AP, ATE Super Blue, Valvoline, Motul, Castrol, Ford Heavy Duty, and Prestone. All of the ones listed above are synthetic and not silicone, so they are all usable in a normal brake system since they are DOT 3 or DOT 4 fluids. Now, the problems you'll need to start talking about differences between them.

If you're wanting your car to be street car, your best bet is ATE Super Blue due to it's very good dry and wet boiling points. Also, it absorbs moisture very very slowly, making it able to be used a long time without needing to be changed. Motul Racing 600 has excellent boiling points, but needs to be changed often because it is very hygroscopic and absorbs moisture quickly. Your absolute best bet in the case of a track car would be Castrol SRF. It has the best boiling points, but by the looks of it, would be very hygroscopic like the Motul. Also, it's very very expensive is the other downfall of it being used as a daily driver fluid. So, from the looks of it, a daily driven car would be best with ATE Super Blue from what I've seen so far. Here is where I got my information from:

file:///C:/TEMP/SHO3brakefluid.html

If anyone has any other suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

SpooledupRacing

I put ATE super blue in a evo 9 after bleeding the brakes we got on the road and had a squishy pedal feel after abotu 10 minutes of driving... the ATE super blue IS compressible... it is great for a track day where u are running in heats for less then 10 minutes at a time but not on the street..

We sell it here and I never recomend it

Ice_Wolf

If it's so compressible, why would many people recommend it for a daily car then? Here's another good chart to look at:

http://www.stealth316.com/2-brakefluid.htm

People seem to love the ATE Super Blue for street and track cars. It has excellent boiling points and isn't very hygroscopic. The downfall of the other fluids with higher boiling points is that they are more hygroscopic and are very compressible. I haven't seen one high performance brake fluid yet that wasn't compressible and didn't need changed regularly. Also, I am unable to use the 5.1 fluids because they are made for ABS systems.

SpooledupRacing

compressibilty in brakes is a BAD THING... thus why your standard brake fluid (dot 3 or dot 3/4 like gtlma) is NON compressibile..

The next time you put a compressibile fluid in your car and a child runs out in the road and u are doing 50 and your pedal goes "squish" just remember u could have prevented his death and your jail time if u used a standard brake fluid..

IME if u are boiling brake fluid in a daily drivin car (daily and/or track) u have other issues..

SpooledupRacing

Here is some more info

ATE Super Blue
boiling point 536 F
wet boiling point 388 F

GTLMA
boiling point minimum 446 F
wet boiling point minimum of 311 F

ATE is a Dot 4
LMA is a dot 3/4

price is WAY DIFFERENT

ate = compressible
lma = NOT compressible

if u have brake fluid OVER 446 F you have problems

BTW before u try and judge those numbers I have both bottles in front of me and it came DIRECTLY off the bottle..

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Just go to Autozone, NAPA, Carquest, w/e and buy DOT 3 or 4 if you're feeling spunky.

Bleed it through your system flushing out the old fluid and drive.

If this isn't a serious dedicated track car, there shouldn't be an eleventy-billion response thread about it........its a street car. Use regular fluid. Drive. Simple.

Ice_Wolf

I know that compressibilty is a bad thing, and that's not what I want. I know those are the correct numbers. If you had checked the links I posted, it has all the fluids listed there. How come the companies don't list if their fluids are compressible or not?

SpooledupRacing

In the USA, oil companies (including hydrolic fluid companies) dont have to list anything but the ratings, spec, "ingredient".. They dont have to state weather or not a fluid is compressible or not... not only that but the ATE super blue does exactly what it is intended for..... RACING... it was esigned to be used in racing circuit where u dont use alot of braking.. Also ATE super blue is recomended to be changed anually... where standard fluid should be changed every 2-4 years depending on if the car sits for long periods of time or not..

Even stating that how many cars have u owned that are 15+ years old and I can almost gaurentee the fluid has never been "changed" brake fluid is the one fluid almost everyone neglects in a cars lifetime.. hell even me..

however the super blue will brake down in 2 years thus why it is recomended to be changed every year..

US SPEC is horrible take engine oil synthtics US engine oil is not PURE synthetic it dont have to be... but this is another thread!

Ice_Wolf

I understand what you mean. I just wish that they listed if it was compressible or not. You can compare boiling points and prices all day and say which is best, but unless you know if it's compressible or not, it's hard to say which is safe to use on a street driven vehicle. Of course if it's going to be a track vehicle, you just want to use the highest boiling point available, even if it means having to change the fluid after every weekend or even after ever race. It just depends on how hardcore you wanna be with it.

Now about the ATE Super Blue. I've read that it resists moisture absorption very well and will not need to be changed in a vehicle for 2 years. The only problem that I find with it is that it is compressible. All the other brake fluids that have higher boiling points than it are very hygroscopic and require changing very regularly. For hygroscopic ratings and boiling points, ATE Super Blue is a good choice and IMO there is nothing better that I've found. Motul, AP, Castrol SPF, Wilwood, Brake Man, and Neo are all high end fluids, but are basically race only because they are very hygroscopic and very compressible. If ATE is compressible as you say it is, I'll probably go with Castrol LMA or Prestone. The Ford HD is nice too, as long as it isn't compressible too.

Also, I'm sure it's the same thing when using it in the clutch system too. You don't want something that's compressible and very hygroscopic.

ilike2eatricers

I've had ATE in my old track TII and street driven occassionally as well with no problems for 2 years. Also sat for months at time and was always good to go.

SpooledupRacing

This comes off the can itself:

Change this brake fluid approx. 2 to 3 years according to the vehicle model and to its operating conditions and after the wet boiling point has been dropped to approx. 180C

Can be mixed with brake fluids meeting the same specifications and with DOT 5.1 brake fluids.

high performance brake fluid. SAFETY BASED ON RACING EXPERIENCE

Ice_Wolf

Well, idk what to say about that. Maybe the Ford Heavy Duty is gonna be my best bet then...

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

In a nutshell:

Stay away from DOT 5. It is Silicone, compressible and non-hygroscopic, intended for show cars that are stored and seldom driven. This reduces maintenance and corrosion on these cars. You don't want to have to change the brake fluid on your Duesenburg every year

Choose the highest boiling temperature DOT 3 or 4 you can find on the shelf. I use Valvoline synthetic. Ford heavy duty is fine. If the fluid you are considering does not list the boiling temp, it is probably pretty low grade stuff.

BTW, the reason some fluids are colored is as a visual tracer. I have some porsche buddies that use a fluid that is available in amber or blue. They can tell when bleeding the brakes when the old fluid is gone because the color changes. These are guys that don't have old black fluid coming out of the bleed valves, so they rely on the color change when bleeding...

Ice_Wolf

Well, after doing some more researching, I figured out the thing about DOT 5.1. It looks like it's made for ABS brake systems, which I don't have. So that's something I'll stay away from. I just really wish I knew which ones were really hygroscopic and which were compressible. Seems like any of the race fluids are compressible, or they're very hygroscopic and suck up water pretty badly and would not be a good choice for a car that's driven on the street.


I guess I'm just going to end up going with Ford HD since it has excellent boiling points and isn't compressible or hygroscopic. Another excellent brake fluid would be Motul's DOT 4. It has excellent dry and wet boiling points, but I'm not sure if it's compressible or how hygroscopic it is. From reading it's description, it looks like it's just a street use fluid. I still don't understand how ATE can not be for a street car. It says on all the websites that sell it that it is a street car fluid. AP 550 appears to be a street fluid, whereas 600 is a racing fluid. Brake Man 577 is supposed to be a racing fluid, and so is Brake Man Xtreme 6. Xtreme 6 says it offers excellent compressibility and low moisture absorption. Neo Super DOT 610 appears to be racing application and isn't hygroscopic, but appears to be compressible. Not sure wtf the deal with Earl's Hypertemp is. Castrol SRF is a racing fluid, is very expensive, isn't very hygroscopic, and seems to be compressible. Castrol GT LMA looks like a very nice street fluid and has some good boiling points and isn't compressible and is slightly hygroscopic.

This is a really tough choice on which to go with. At this momment, I'm looking at the Ford HD, Motul DOT 4, ATE Super Blue, Castrol GT LMA, and Prestone DOT 4. I know for sure all of these but ATE are compressible and resist moisture absorption. Hmm....

micah

Correct. I've used AP550 with excellent results. The only reason I used it over a standard Dot4 brand at autozone or whatever was because the racing shop I frequented had a bunch of it for dirt cheap. Back in the day, my buddy used to autoX with it in his FC. Loved the stuff.

Ice_Wolf

Any problems with compressibilty issues or it absorbing too much moisture?

micah

Nope... drove it for a couple years like that... Just do a good bleed job and it'll treat ya right. The **** part is paying the 8-9 bucks per bottle

Ice_Wolf

Money isn't the problem here, I just want the best performance without a squishy pedal and having to bleed them every month.

SpooledupRacing

use the GTLMA, you wont boil it, u will save lots of cash, and u only have to change it every few years.. I mean seriously brake fluid lasts over 10 years it is not nessecary to change your standard brake fluid every year..

btw 5.1 is not just because of abs because dot 3 will work in ABS cars.. hell dot 5.1 was only avaialabel in the last few years.. abs has been along for a long time.

Ice_Wolf

Yes, but 5.1 is designed specifically for ABS cars. I know ABS has been around for a long time and I know any DOT number besides 5 will work in an ABS system. There's no sense in using a 5.1 fluid in a non-ABS car when a DOT 4 will work better.

SpooledupRacing

right... thus why I said use the gtlma it is a dot 3/4

micah

How is 5.1 designed specifically for ABS cars? The only difference I can see about it is that its hygroscopic, unlike 5 which is silicone based. 5.1 should be considered in the same regard to 3 or 4, just with a higher boiling point. Right?

I would assume that since they are all made of the same stuff (polyethylene glycol), and are given a DOT number based on their boiling point, a DOT4 that has a higher boiling point than that of a DOT5.1, would be, by definition a DOT5.1?

I'm know jack&**** about brake fluid formulation, but thats how it looks to me.

KhanArtisT

iTrader: (2)

So I was told that DOT 4 needs to be heated up when you first start driving for the brakes to feel normal, is this true? How important is it to use DOT 4 (vs DOT 3) for auto x/track days?

Ice_Wolf

DOT 5.1 has a different composition than that of DOT 3 or DOT 4. I'm not quite sure what it has it in that makes it specifically for ABS braking systems, but I'm kinda leery about using it in a non-ABS car.

I've never heard anything about needing to heat up DOT 4 to make it feel right. I use DOT 4 right now and have no problems with it compared to anything else I use.

I'm still not sure what brake fluid to go with. I wish there were more people posting in this thread about what's compressible and what's not. That's the main selling point at this time on a brake fluid for me.