How to supercharge an N/A FC...
09-04-04, 02:54 PM
#1
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How to supercharge an N/A FC...
Ok, my quest for more power is going nowhere slow because of my stockported motor and lack of funds for maintainance on a bridgeported/turbo motor so I've adopted the possibility of a centrifigally supercharged FC. What would be necessary for this to work? I've already established the idea of bigger injectors, TII rotor housings, better fuel pump, better ignition, and removed emmisions but would that be enough to adapt say a Vortech CSC to where my air pump is and run some pipes and whatnot? I need some ideas here. I'm shooting in the dark so if anyone has some helpful suggestions I would appreciate it.
09-04-04, 03:10 PM
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isn't this going to cost about the price of a bridgeport? For that matter, a turbo setup may be cheaper, if not far easier in the long run...
That said, SEARCH.
That said, SEARCH.
09-04-04, 03:38 PM
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DUDE you can turbo and port a motor MUCH cheaper than you can super it... mainly bcuz the stock TB and VDI and all that crap dont work with an SC... and you can **** your motor up royally boosting stock ports a lot (not that I would know...)
My advice: port yourself, you own a dremel don't you?
And to turbo an NA is, contrary to aaron cake's guide, MUCH cheaper. The main cost is the turbo, which you can find at a junkyard, (same with injectors) and the IC (search ebay for SPEARCO IC's). It will run rough unless you tune fuel injection, but not as bad as a super!
My advice: port yourself, you own a dremel don't you?
And to turbo an NA is, contrary to aaron cake's guide, MUCH cheaper. The main cost is the turbo, which you can find at a junkyard, (same with injectors) and the IC (search ebay for SPEARCO IC's). It will run rough unless you tune fuel injection, but not as bad as a super!
09-04-04, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by powrdby13B
you can super it... mainly bcuz the stock TB and VDI and all that crap dont work with an SC...
They work fine with an s/c btw, what doesn't work that well at all is the fuel injection and control. The TB and VDI are trivial compared to the overall hurdle of being able to not control fuel on the stock EFI system. You just have to sit and THINK.
That said, its still cheaper to go turbo.
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09-04-04, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by powrdby13B
DUDE you can turbo and port a motor MUCH cheaper than you can super it... mainly bcuz the stock TB and VDI and all that crap dont work with an SC... and you can **** your motor up royally boosting stock ports a lot (not that I would know...)
My advice: port yourself, you own a dremel don't you?
And to turbo an NA is, contrary to aaron cake's guide, MUCH cheaper. The main cost is the turbo, which you can find at a junkyard, (same with injectors) and the IC (search ebay for SPEARCO IC's). It will run rough unless you tune fuel injection, but not as bad as a super!
My advice: port yourself, you own a dremel don't you?
And to turbo an NA is, contrary to aaron cake's guide, MUCH cheaper. The main cost is the turbo, which you can find at a junkyard, (same with injectors) and the IC (search ebay for SPEARCO IC's). It will run rough unless you tune fuel injection, but not as bad as a super!
Also, I thought it was expensive as ***** to turbo an N/A motor? I'm TERRIBLY misinformed somewhere.
EDIT: I DO indeed have access to a dremel, engine hoist, engine stand, and lots of tools so if you could please give me some info on the process of porting my motor, I would appreciate it.
09-04-04, 05:18 PM
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theres lots of info on porting at nopistons.com search around there, racing beat also sells templets to make it idiot proof, buy many stones,ive seen them on ebay for cheap, i believe the n/a turbo setup is like 600-800 bux, i have a s5 turbo and injectors laying around here if you need them
good luck
good luck
09-04-04, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 1RevvinFC3S
How would I go about porting my own motor? I don't think I follow? I'm gonna guess though. You must be saying that I should pull my motor, take my motor apart, and somehow take a dremel to my intake and exhaust ports? Is that what you're saying?
Also, I thought it was expensive as ***** to turbo an N/A motor? I'm TERRIBLY misinformed somewhere.
EDIT: I DO indeed have access to a dremel, engine hoist, engine stand, and lots of tools so if you could please give me some info on the process of porting my motor, I would appreciate it.
Also, I thought it was expensive as ***** to turbo an N/A motor? I'm TERRIBLY misinformed somewhere.
EDIT: I DO indeed have access to a dremel, engine hoist, engine stand, and lots of tools so if you could please give me some info on the process of porting my motor, I would appreciate it.
On the other hand you could throw in a completely turbo motor-- that could get expensive if you rebuiilt it first and yada yada.
But then either way you need a better clutch, tranny and rear dif... see where this is going.
09-04-04, 05:35 PM
#11
If you use a dremel to port and engine, you'll be there all year grinding on it. You need a die grinder.
I'm not a fan of centrifugal superchargers. They don't produce squat for boost down low. If you want to do a supercharger then do what many others are doing and pick up an old T-bird Eaton M90 supercharger. Adapt it to fit. I wouldn't do it quite like Zbrown did it but it would be a cheap option. Some people say porting is cheap. If you know how to do it, have the time, and have another car to drive, that may be true. This also assumes you can reuse everything. Good luck here. If you're looking for alot of power for cheap, you aren't going to do it. If you want a nice power upgrade, no problem. I'd relocate your alternator. I'd then remove the dynamic chamber and build an adapter plate for the Eaton supercharger. Figure out a pulley system. Adapt the throttlebody to before the supercharger. Then get some T-II secondary injectors and an S-AFC or other type of way to alter the ecu. It'll be a good power upgrade but nothing highly impressive. If you install a turbo you still need to address the computer and fuel issues. With the supercharger you won't need to find oil or water to tap into. Some people say so what but this just makes this all the easier. At least you could do a little work and then put your car back together really easily and still drive it. You will lose the ability to keep it emissions legal if you add a turbo. You'll need to remove the emissions devices from the lower manifold just to make the turbo clear it. You'll also lose the auxillary ports. Anyone who drives without these on the street must really like lower gas mileage and less low end power with nothing to gain up top. With the supercharger mounted in the way I just stated, you can keep emissions controls and the auxillary ports working. Some places don't have to worry about emissions but many do. You could pass with a supercharger.
Is this the best power upgrade out there? Nope. It is probably the easiest and cheapest though and your car will not be sidelined for long periods of time. Realize right now that the RX-7 community as a whole is pretty close minded when it comes to supercharging and almost only in favor of turbocharging. It depends on the scenario. A turbo is not always the best way to go! People incorrectly argue against this until they are blue in the face. A turbo will (assuming it is sized properly) make the most ultimate power though if that is your goal.
I'm not a fan of centrifugal superchargers. They don't produce squat for boost down low. If you want to do a supercharger then do what many others are doing and pick up an old T-bird Eaton M90 supercharger. Adapt it to fit. I wouldn't do it quite like Zbrown did it but it would be a cheap option. Some people say porting is cheap. If you know how to do it, have the time, and have another car to drive, that may be true. This also assumes you can reuse everything. Good luck here. If you're looking for alot of power for cheap, you aren't going to do it. If you want a nice power upgrade, no problem. I'd relocate your alternator. I'd then remove the dynamic chamber and build an adapter plate for the Eaton supercharger. Figure out a pulley system. Adapt the throttlebody to before the supercharger. Then get some T-II secondary injectors and an S-AFC or other type of way to alter the ecu. It'll be a good power upgrade but nothing highly impressive. If you install a turbo you still need to address the computer and fuel issues. With the supercharger you won't need to find oil or water to tap into. Some people say so what but this just makes this all the easier. At least you could do a little work and then put your car back together really easily and still drive it. You will lose the ability to keep it emissions legal if you add a turbo. You'll need to remove the emissions devices from the lower manifold just to make the turbo clear it. You'll also lose the auxillary ports. Anyone who drives without these on the street must really like lower gas mileage and less low end power with nothing to gain up top. With the supercharger mounted in the way I just stated, you can keep emissions controls and the auxillary ports working. Some places don't have to worry about emissions but many do. You could pass with a supercharger.
Is this the best power upgrade out there? Nope. It is probably the easiest and cheapest though and your car will not be sidelined for long periods of time. Realize right now that the RX-7 community as a whole is pretty close minded when it comes to supercharging and almost only in favor of turbocharging. It depends on the scenario. A turbo is not always the best way to go! People incorrectly argue against this until they are blue in the face. A turbo will (assuming it is sized properly) make the most ultimate power though if that is your goal.
09-04-04, 05:36 PM
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Eyyyyup! I sure do. I'll be upgrading all of that anyway further down the line. I'm going TII tranny, TII LSD, ACT Street/Strip clutch, XACT 12.5lb Flywheel, TII Driveshaft (saving for a cabon composite driveshaft, 
) not to mention stronger axles (I'll probably ask around the race car tech section and see witch are the best).
Hey calio, how much for it all? I'm in Texas, but I could have you ship it to my best friend (1_Sweeet_FC3S) or my brother in Florida and have one of them hold on to it until December. PM me or write on this thread with info, please !
) not to mention stronger axles (I'll probably ask around the race car tech section and see witch are the best).Hey calio, how much for it all? I'm in Texas, but I could have you ship it to my best friend (1_Sweeet_FC3S) or my brother in Florida and have one of them hold on to it until December. PM me or write on this thread with info, please
!
09-04-04, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Kenteth
It is expensive depending on which way you go about it. In theory, turbo manny, turbo, fuel injector (yeah one, maybe two) and an fuel comp for the xtra fuel injector. Thats about it.
On the other hand you could throw in a completely turbo motor-- that could get expensive if you rebuiilt it first and yada yada.
But then either way you need a better clutch, tranny and rear dif... see where this is going.
On the other hand you could throw in a completely turbo motor-- that could get expensive if you rebuiilt it first and yada yada.
But then either way you need a better clutch, tranny and rear dif... see where this is going.
09-04-04, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by rotarygod
If you use a dremel to port and engine, you'll be there all year grinding on it. You need a die grinder.
I'm not a fan of centrifugal superchargers. They don't produce squat for boost down low. If you want to do a supercharger then do what many others are doing and pick up an old T-bird Eaton M90 supercharger. Adapt it to fit. I wouldn't do it quite like Zbrown did it but it would be a cheap option. Some people say porting is cheap. If you know how to do it, have the time, and have another car to drive, that may be true. This also assumes you can reuse everything. Good luck here. If you're looking for alot of power for cheap, you aren't going to do it. If you want a nice power upgrade, no problem. I'd relocate your alternator. I'd then remove the dynamic chamber and build an adapter plate for the Eaton supercharger. Figure out a pulley system. Adapt the throttlebody to before the supercharger. Then get some T-II secondary injectors and an S-AFC or other type of way to alter the ecu. It'll be a good power upgrade but nothing highly impressive. If you install a turbo you still need to address the computer and fuel issues. With the supercharger you won't need to find oil or water to tap into. Some people say so what but this just makes this all the easier. At least you could do a little work and then put your car back together really easily and still drive it. You will lose the ability to keep it emissions legal if you add a turbo. You'll need to remove the emissions devices from the lower manifold just to make the turbo clear it. You'll also lose the auxillary ports. Anyone who drives without these on the street must really like lower gas mileage and less low end power with nothing to gain up top. With the supercharger mounted in the way I just stated, you can keep emissions controls and the auxillary ports working. Some places don't have to worry about emissions but many do. You could pass with a supercharger.
Is this the best power upgrade out there? Nope. It is probably the easiest and cheapest though and your car will not be sidelined for long periods of time. Realize right now that the RX-7 community as a whole is pretty close minded when it comes to supercharging and almost only in favor of turbocharging. It depends on the scenario. A turbo is not always the best way to go! People incorrectly argue against this until they are blue in the face. A turbo will (assuming it is sized properly) make the most ultimate power though if that is your goal.
I'm not a fan of centrifugal superchargers. They don't produce squat for boost down low. If you want to do a supercharger then do what many others are doing and pick up an old T-bird Eaton M90 supercharger. Adapt it to fit. I wouldn't do it quite like Zbrown did it but it would be a cheap option. Some people say porting is cheap. If you know how to do it, have the time, and have another car to drive, that may be true. This also assumes you can reuse everything. Good luck here. If you're looking for alot of power for cheap, you aren't going to do it. If you want a nice power upgrade, no problem. I'd relocate your alternator. I'd then remove the dynamic chamber and build an adapter plate for the Eaton supercharger. Figure out a pulley system. Adapt the throttlebody to before the supercharger. Then get some T-II secondary injectors and an S-AFC or other type of way to alter the ecu. It'll be a good power upgrade but nothing highly impressive. If you install a turbo you still need to address the computer and fuel issues. With the supercharger you won't need to find oil or water to tap into. Some people say so what but this just makes this all the easier. At least you could do a little work and then put your car back together really easily and still drive it. You will lose the ability to keep it emissions legal if you add a turbo. You'll need to remove the emissions devices from the lower manifold just to make the turbo clear it. You'll also lose the auxillary ports. Anyone who drives without these on the street must really like lower gas mileage and less low end power with nothing to gain up top. With the supercharger mounted in the way I just stated, you can keep emissions controls and the auxillary ports working. Some places don't have to worry about emissions but many do. You could pass with a supercharger.
Is this the best power upgrade out there? Nope. It is probably the easiest and cheapest though and your car will not be sidelined for long periods of time. Realize right now that the RX-7 community as a whole is pretty close minded when it comes to supercharging and almost only in favor of turbocharging. It depends on the scenario. A turbo is not always the best way to go! People incorrectly argue against this until they are blue in the face. A turbo will (assuming it is sized properly) make the most ultimate power though if that is your goal.
09-04-04, 10:15 PM
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Real men fab uber cool supercharger setups, turbos are for the kids!
j/k
To adapt a supercharger to NA u need:
1. Supercharger ($500-1000 for a vortech)
2. Pipes ($100-500 depending on if u can fab them urself)
3. SAFC or aftermarket ecu ($200-1200)
4. Larger injectors ($100-300)
5. Clutch ($200-400)
6. Tuning or ur own wideband O2 sensor meter and the knowhow to use it ($200-1000)
So it's cheaper and much easier to sell ur NA and buy a TII, do the standard mods and get a nice 13 second car with 200++ rwhp than try to fab in a supercharger. There is MUCH more to supercharging than installing the compressor or blower.
j/k
To adapt a supercharger to NA u need:
1. Supercharger ($500-1000 for a vortech)
2. Pipes ($100-500 depending on if u can fab them urself)
3. SAFC or aftermarket ecu ($200-1200)
4. Larger injectors ($100-300)
5. Clutch ($200-400)
6. Tuning or ur own wideband O2 sensor meter and the knowhow to use it ($200-1000)
So it's cheaper and much easier to sell ur NA and buy a TII, do the standard mods and get a nice 13 second car with 200++ rwhp than try to fab in a supercharger. There is MUCH more to supercharging than installing the compressor or blower.
09-04-04, 10:19 PM
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this is from the faq
What Turbo kits can I add onto my N/A RX-7?
There have been no kits tested or formally made, however you may wish to try this company who claims they made one
NA Turbo Kits:
http://www.hardcore-performance.com/tmazda.asp
Most people that turbo a N/A make their own kits:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...&threadid=88540
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...&threadid=88758
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...threadid=124232
http://www.aaroncake.net/rx-7/naturbo.htm
http://users.bigpond.net.au/iwantagtir/
http://users2.ev1.net/~ccoutts/turb...n_a_project.htm
Turbo-NA Forum:
http://www.aaroncake.net/forum/foru...Turbocharged+NA
What Turbo kits can I add onto my N/A RX-7?
There have been no kits tested or formally made, however you may wish to try this company who claims they made one
NA Turbo Kits:
http://www.hardcore-performance.com/tmazda.asp
Most people that turbo a N/A make their own kits:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...&threadid=88540
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...&threadid=88758
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...threadid=124232
http://www.aaroncake.net/rx-7/naturbo.htm
http://users.bigpond.net.au/iwantagtir/
http://users2.ev1.net/~ccoutts/turb...n_a_project.htm
Turbo-NA Forum:
http://www.aaroncake.net/forum/foru...Turbocharged+NA
09-04-04, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by 88IntegraLS
Real men fab uber cool supercharger setups, turbos are for the kids!
j/k
To adapt a supercharger to NA u need:
1. Supercharger ($500-1000 for a vortech)
2. Pipes ($100-500 depending on if u can fab them urself)
3. SAFC or aftermarket ecu ($200-1200)
4. Larger injectors ($100-300)
5. Clutch ($200-400)
6. Tuning or ur own wideband O2 sensor meter and the knowhow to use it ($200-1000)
So it's cheaper and much easier to sell ur NA and buy a TII, do the standard mods and get a nice 13 second car with 200++ rwhp than try to fab in a supercharger. There is MUCH more to supercharging than installing the compressor or blower.
j/k
To adapt a supercharger to NA u need:
1. Supercharger ($500-1000 for a vortech)
2. Pipes ($100-500 depending on if u can fab them urself)
3. SAFC or aftermarket ecu ($200-1200)
4. Larger injectors ($100-300)
5. Clutch ($200-400)
6. Tuning or ur own wideband O2 sensor meter and the knowhow to use it ($200-1000)
So it's cheaper and much easier to sell ur NA and buy a TII, do the standard mods and get a nice 13 second car with 200++ rwhp than try to fab in a supercharger. There is MUCH more to supercharging than installing the compressor or blower.
09-05-04, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by 1RevvinFC3S
The only thing that bugs me is how I'm going to bypass the MAFS, though I'm sure the A'PEXi S-AFC II could manage that without a problem.
the only way you can get rid of the MAF is by going to a standalone EMS which might be the best route anyway.
you could potentialy keep the MAF but you would have to mount it somewhere before the TB in the intake track like it is now. if you did it before the SC it would handicap you to only about 180 RWHP since this is about the known point where the MAF maxes out for people with streetports. you could possibly mount it after the SC so that it is mettering the compresses air (allowing more ultimate air flow), however this would only help to a point and the MAF was not designed to measure compresed air so this could be very difficult to control even with an SAFC.
unless you have pretty good fabrication skills and acces to the proper tools (ie a mill and/or a welder to make a proper mounting bracket and manifolds for the SC) i think your best bet for a easy and cheap power boost would be a stright up TII swap.
on a project like this, if you have to ask and dont already have ALL the details figured out, i say you are in over your head.
just my .02, but good luck whichever route you take. threre are many reasons why you see next to 0 SC rotaries, but more power to you if you can pull it off.
Last edited by andrew lohaus; 09-05-04 at 01:22 AM.
09-05-04, 02:13 PM
#21
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I think I'm gonna go ahead and either A.) Buy that turbo from calio, or B.) Do a TII swap, or C.) Sell my car and get a TII. The only thing that sucks about option C is that I'm attached to my car ( 
) and TII are HELLA hard to find in Texas. I don't know, I'll look on autotrader.
) and TII are HELLA hard to find in Texas. I don't know, I'll look on autotrader.
09-05-04, 02:19 PM
#22
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This is the only TII I've found thus far. See what I mean. Not bad at all but I don't think I'll be able to get anywhere CLOSE to $5500 for my N/A, unless I get REALLY lucky and someone feels sorry for me. Here it is. http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...r=&cardist=178