flubyux2

EDIT: freakin Yahoo, sorry about the red X's.... if you want to see the pics, right click, go to properties, copy and paste the URL.. sorry again.

For those of you who hate your Automatic seat belts in your 89-91 FC, this is for you. Automatic seat belts, also known as "Strangulators", "Mouse Traps", "Rat traps". ever have the seat belt stop half way, or not return to the front when you open the door? ever get strangled by the seat belts when trying get in or out of the car?

Pros:
Reduces weight of restraint system
Reduces complexity of restraint system
Eliminates 2 electric motors, 2 guides and 2 retractor assemblies
Simpler restraint system
Uses factory restraint mount locations, no hack-jobs
Never get strangled again!!!!

Cons:
with so many electrical connections and sensors, your Seatbelt warning light will stay on untill you jumper all switched and sensor connectors... or remove the bulb.
Not a bolt-in procedure as commonly thought
Irreversable modification
Possibility of insurance company denying a claim due to altered seat belt configuration.
http://www.geocities.com/race4darush...beltbefore.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/race4darush...eltbefore1.jpg

well ill show you how to change your automatic belts to the manual belts from the 86-88 models. Here is your shopping list:

Lower sail panels w/ clips and screws (LH and RH)
Upper sail panels w/ clips and screws (LH and RH)
Main S4 retractor and belt assy w/ bolts (LH and RH)
S4 belt webbing guide and screws (LH and RH)
S4 belt buckle reciever w/ bolt(LH and RH)
S4 A-Pillar trim w/ clips (LH and RH)
S4 headliner w/ clips
S4 carpet (optional)
S4 armrest (optional)

Here are the tools youll need

Long flat blade screwdriver
Phillips screw driver
Torx bit, 1/4"ish
Knife
Sidecuts or Dykes
Rachet
5/8" socket
12mm socket
10mm socket
Dremel w/ cutting disc or Air cut-off tool
Drill w/ 3/8" bit or larger
Vice Grips
File

Ill be generic as to which side of the car im talking about, since one side mirrors the other. got your stuff? good, lets start tearing it down.

First, remove sill plate and keep track of the screws. the short ones go on the outside of the plate, the 2 long ones go on the ends. there are clips holding the plate on, so put some effort into it. this is pretty

oh, and remove your rear bins. there are about 6 phillips screws per bin. i think 4 on the top flanges, when the lid is up, and 2 going into the back wall of the bin. remove the bin, and unplug the bullet connectors for the light. now, remove Many 10mm bolts holding down the rear-floor extension/bin holder. once all the 10mm bolts are removed, the cargo bin brackets/floor will lift out in 2 sections. this is pretty easy too.

now, remove the one long screw holding the forward part of the Lower sail panel down, and begin to pull the panel away from the body. if you pull the panel carelessly, the clips will break off the panel, and it wont be re-install-able. the clip locations are circled in red, use your long flat blade to get between the clip and the body, and pry it away.
http://www.geocities.com/race4darush...panelclips.jpg

ok, now that that is gone, you can now remove the upper sail panel trim. there are 2 plastic pop rivets w/ a phillips head; unscrew them w/ little to no pressure, just turn. once they are backed out 5 turns or so, the rivit assy will pull out. also, remove the coat hanger (on applicable side only) w/ the phillips. in the pic below, i circled where the clips are. use your flat blade again to pry the clips away from the body. its the same concept as pulling a spark plug wire by the boot at the base, and not by the wire.
http://www.geocities.com/race4darush...panelclips.jpg

now, remove your A-pillar trim. youll have to use your flat blade again to pry the clips away from the body. the A-pillar trim is pretty brittle, so if you just yank, youll probably break the clip mounts. the arrows point to where you should find the clips.
http://www.geocities.com/race4darush/A-pillarclips.jpg

flubyux2

Now, you can remove the Strangulator itself. there are a couple 10mm nuts holding it to some studs, one 10mm bolt and a 5/8" bolt at the rear... Yes, there is an English bolt on this car... in fact, all the main mounting points for any potential stress points are affixed w/ 5/8" bolts. the motor that drives the mouse trap is held in by 4 10mm bolts. dont forget about the wire clip at the front of the track. here they are.
http://www.geocities.com/race4darush...rangulator.jpg

with that out of the way, there is another set of trim pieces that you have to take out. the top point is another plastic pop rivet, use your phillips again. the rear point is another body clip, use your flat blade. the top gold bolt is a 10mm IIRC, take that out too. here they are.
http://www.geocities.com/race4darush...ulatortrim.jpg

now, w/ the strangulator gone and the trim gone, we have to remove the brackets that it used to mount to... otherwise the S4 trim will never mount. you might be able to stop here and reinstall your S5 trim, but youll have the slot where the track used to run. i prefered a clean swap. read on. this is where this swap becomes irreversible and graduates from "Bolt-in" to "Custom".

Here are the mounts for the STrangulator motor assy. i noted where they need to be cut or drilled. cut along the lines w/ your Dremel and cutting wheel or your Cut-off air tool. the circle is where you NEED to drill out the spot weld, because if you left the tab there, itd shred your seat belt webbing, since it runs right over that spot.

HINT: if you have the dremel, then you know those discs are fragile. for speed, cut into the bracket half way, scoring it. then take your vice grips and bend it back and forth a few times, itll fatigue and break away.
http://www.geocities.com/race4darush...rmotormnts.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/race4darush...otormntcut.jpg

while we are cutting, cut the upper head liner bracket here. you can cut on the dotted line or drill out the spot weld. the score-and-bend method worked for me here.
http://www.geocities.com/race4darush...nerbracket.JPG

the front strangulator track mounts need removed too. the upper one has room to get a drill in to remove the spot welds. youll need the vice grips again to "persuade" the bracket off the body. i punched thru the inner body and there was a HAZ (heat affected zone) that was still joined to the body, and needed to be broken away, despite drilling the weld. as for the forward mount, there was no room to get my drill in there, i had to use the dremel again. the score-and-bend trick worked great here also.
http://www.geocities.com/race4darush...ulatormnts.jpg

Scott 89t2

or you could just pick up a few S5 parts from canada instead of changing so many things

The Spyder

iTrader: (8)

Geocitites= no hotlinking

flubyux2

here is what you should have after the permanent mods are done.
http://www.geocities.com/race4darush...ormntsgone.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/race4darush...ormntsgone.jpg

now, you can have your S4 A pillar trim snapped into place. you have to slide the front first, up at the windsheild, then you can snap the clips into the body. the weather strip has a groove that molds around the edge of the S4 trim just as it did on the S5.

the moment of truth; take your S4 seat belt assembly, and fit it up in the hole that used to be covered by the Strangulator motor assy. there is one 10mm bolt up top, next to the locating pin, then a 5/8" bolt on the bottom. the arrows show where they go, but im sure you coulda figured that out. here is what i mean
http://www.geocities.com/race4darush...ralignment.JPG

now, you could probably install your upper sail panel. i think all the S4 clip locations correspond to a hole in your S5 body. give it a quick rap on each clip location to seat them in the body. tuck the edge of the trim into the groove of the weather strip. now, you can take the top anchor for your S4 belt and thread the big fat american bolt into the body, thru the trim. tighten it down w/ your 5/8" socket. snap the trim cover down over it like it was from the factory. now, just above where the retractor sits, there are 2 unused screw holes. this is where your belt guide goes. the screws you scavenged from your S4 donor will cut threads into these holes easily. heres what im talkin about.
http://www.geocities.com/race4darush/beltguide.jpg

now, about mouting the bottom anchor for this dealy. what you gota do is pull back the carpet from the rocker panel. there is one plastic pop rivet that you gota pry out. then remove the stock lower retractor trim panel; 2 phillips screws and one plastic pop rivit.
http://www.geocities.com/race4darush...tretractor.jpg

pull the carpet back, and this is what youll see. remove the 2 gold bolts that (Arrows)... yea, its your best friend, 5/8" bolts
http://www.geocities.com/race4darush...rretractor.jpg

flubyux2

what you have to do is get that torx bit and take out these 2 screws. they hold the retractor to the mount plate.


and then youll end up w/ this


set aside the retractor, w/ the rest of your crap. take that plate, and remove the forward bolt. there is a internal-tooth washer holding the bolt to the plate. leave the rear bolt in, and put it back in the car. your lower S4 seat belt anchor will bolt into the forward location, anchoring the seat belt and the plate together. the reason you need to keep the plate is because that trim peice screws to it. without it, youll have a big gaping hole in the carpet that rodents can get in and out of. what you have to do now, is get rid of the little boot that used to cover the lower anchor bolt from the S4


then, remove the internal-tooth washer from the bolt on the lower anchor. remember how them washers go. remove the large black washer, 2nd one up from the seat belt tab. heres what youl be lookin at.


now, you can fish the seat belt thru the S5 lower trim piece, because that has to mount last. then fish it thru the hole in the carpet. after its thru, put the bolt, washers (minus the big black one) and internal-tooth washer back on, mind the order of the washers.


now bolt that S5 plate on in the rear, loosely. we will snug it down later. now, start threading the S4 lower anchor in thru the forward hole of the S5 plate, into the body. when tightening the forward bolt, it will want to turn the seat belt tab. mine ended up pointed up, i hammered it so it would follow the contour of the rocker panel. itll look like this.


now you can put the carpet back, put the plastic rivit back into the carpet, reinstall the S5 trim piece, and itll look good as new. or old... or like it was before... sort of.


now, where are we going to latch this new belt buckle into? this part is cake. peel back the carpet on the driveshaft tunnel, behind the seat, below the armrest. this is a 5/8" bolt again. on the driverside, there is a connector you have to unplug too.

flubyux2

the S4 unit will bolt right into place, there is a locating dowel/pin that makes the unit point up at a 30* angle. you cant go wrong here. just reconnect the harness and tighten down that english bolt. replace the flap when done.


how bout those old lap belts that seemed to come from under the armrest? this is stage 3. first, do this; remove the center trim w/ the Security light and your power mirror switch.. you have to use something thin to pry it up. it only snaps in, no fasteners. your flat blade is too thick and will mar the edges. a cool butterfly knife like mine or a butter knife (if youre lame ) will work perfectly. pry up at corners, since thats where it snaps in at. then, there is a light for the security dealy and a connector for the power mirrors. remove them both, and set the cointray dealy aside.


with that gone, youll see the 2 flanged phillips screws you need to remove. incase you dont, here is a picture.


now, remove the crap from your armrest, cuz there are 2 screws back there you need to remove. 2 more flanged phillips.


the armrest will lift away, quite easily done. now youll see the monstrous center retractor w/ the huge *** guides on both sides. held in with... thats right, four 5/8" bolts. also, disconnect the harness on the front side of the assy.



now, you can replace your cente arm rest. installation is the reverse of removal (yea, i know you hate reading that) if you really look, you can see that there Used to be something under the armrest. if youre like me, itll bother you... and youll want to get an S4 carpet that doesnt have cutouts in it. but thats later.


did i forget anything? oh.. right, here is what it looks like Afterwards... and no, i dont have my headliner in. the S5 headliner does not fit with the S4 trim, the S5 headliner is narrower because the S5 trim sits inboard away from teh body about an inch... due to the thickness of the Strangulator tracks. with the tracks gone, there is nothing for the headliner to clip to. thats why i said you need to get the headliner from the S4... i didnt find out till later. but, ignoring the lack of a headliner... it looks pretty wicked.



DISCLAIMER: for educational purposes only. Perform this modification at your own risk. i assume no liability for any consequences of this modifications.

flubyux2

i couldnt think of any other websites w/ free space to upload my pics. guess it doesnt do much good if no one can see them.

btw, there is a severe lack of canadian spec FC's here in florida... and all those FC parts were $35, cash and carry from the U-pull-it junk yard. id say i came out a lot better than trying to out source from canada.

daviddeep

iTrader: (4)

This is an excellent post; thanks for the effort! I'm still torn about whether or not to undertake this project.

I'd like to add to the pros/cons list:

Pros for removing S5 belts:

1. Thinner A-pillar interior trim improves forward visibility.

2. Improved safety in a crash. I remember reading studies in the late 80s about the strangulators that indicated they were less secure in an accident. One problem is that the lap belt latch is not located in the optimal position due to the need for an inboard shoulder belt retractor. If you are sitting in your S5 with the lap belt latched, look at all the room you have for your hips to be thrown towards the center of the car and you will understand this problem.

Cons:

1. Extreme difficulty in locating black S4 interior seat belts and trim.

2. Possible insurance premium if they ever find out; I receive about a $20 per year reduction for "passive restraints" (big deal).

Thanks again!

P.S. -
I was able to see your pictures five minutes ago, but now they have gone poof.

flubyux2

thanks for the input dave.

EK Enrique im'd me and offered to host the pictures on his server, so we will get the pictures up for everyone to see.

btw, they do have plastic and vinyl dyes that work pretty good.

that is one thing i dont understana bout the lap belt latch... they place it so far forward. whats that about anyways?

daviddeep

iTrader: (4)

I remember reading a question about locating black seatbelts on here a few months ago. It was said that fabric dyes can weaken the seatbelt webbing. Is this true?

andrew lohaus

wow great write up. does anyone have any thoughts on removing the motors and cables etc. and just locking the latch in place like you do when they inevitably break anyway. i mean enough of us drive around with them like this that it seems reasonable to just pull the motors and other crap out to save some weight while just buckilng the belt over our shoulder every time.

Wankel7

Wow, thanks for the write up! I would need to find out about what the insurance company has to say about that sort of thing though. Thanks for bringing it up!

James

SureShot

While looking for the parts needed.
1) Roll the belt to the rear position.
2) Unplug the motor wire behind it's access panel.
3) Unplug the control box (behind the glove box) to shut off the warning beeper & light.
4) Just duck under the belt when getting in.
5) Help you girlfriend with hers (fun).

andrew lohaus

AHAHA

flubyux2

pics are coming back, mark is helping edit the posts. i wanted a clean look... rather than a non-functioning thingy. sometimes, i get bugged when something is supposed to work but doesnt.. even if it IS a Mouse Trap seat belt.

on first thought, i would say that the insurance company wouldnt really have a quibble over the validity and safetey of this mod if you really pushed it. i think they would say "Fat chance" but if you took it to highway patrol station and they verified that it was installed properly, like a child's car seat, it would be insurable. i mean, it is basically Original equipment, utilizing factory locations, no modifications performed to original equipment specification.

funny you should mention the "Girlfriend", her Talon has the same stupid Auto Seatbelts too... but those parts really DO have to come from a Canadian car, there were never any manual-belt equipped cars in the US.

i think you COULD disable the motor and remove it, and leave the upper restraint in the rearward position... but w/o the motor there, binding up the retractor, whats to keep the retractor from being turned/moved manually... say, in an accident. sometimes the forces in an accident are not purley on an X or Y axis (side to side or front to rear)... sometimes they are also on the Z axis (up and down). it would suck if the retractor skated up the track and didnt hold you in the seat.

as far as the dye weakening the seat belt webbing... its possible. i think the webbing is Nylon, which is a plastic and i think the dye has a petroleum based solvent in it to carry the pigment. if it is indeed a petroleum based solvent, dont use it because plastics are petroleum bases and consist of Hydro-carbon chains which can be broken down by petroleum. if its alcohol based, that might be safe. alcohol is a hydrocarbon chain also, but not petroleum based... it normally evaporates and leaves no residue which could attack the webbing over time.

if you have Gray seatbelts in a black interior... i dont think anyone would call you on it... who's to say that black interiors DIDNT have gray seatbelts. just like, who's to say that base model cars didnt have aluminum hoods???

ajsuper7

ive never had any problems with the mousebelts aside from forgetting to buckle the lap belt a few times but how much does all the s5 stuff weigh compared to the s4 belts? im not a huge weight freak but just curious.

MtnRacer

You offering? Specifically what would you need? I was thinking of going with S4 belts and Canadian Apillar pieces, but if someone in Canada(*ahem*) could get it all together for me, I'd pay a pretty penny.

Steve

MtnRacer

Btw Flub, AWESOME write up, hopefully someone can help you out and get those pics fixed. But nice job! I'll definitely be referring to this when I do my swap.

Steve

TurboIIGuy

good job.....I was searching for some info on this for a buddy..

sub9lulu

iTrader: (7)

sorry bump from the dead
anybody know that is the S5 convertible seatbelt going to work in this conversion ?
I got a S5 with black interior and I am not a fan of the auto seatbelt / mismatch interior

clokker

iTrader: (2)

No, I don't think it will.
The S4 belts fit in the same place(s) as the mouse tracks but the vert retractor is totally different (both mounting points and operation).

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

has anyone done this with the s5 canadian units? if so, is there a writeup?

spacemanmort

iTrader: (3)

sorry to bump this from the dead, but does any one have the pics? all the links are broken.