how much does a fc weight... (not a question)
12-28-03, 06:26 AM
#26
I'm a CF and poop smith
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Originally posted by Kai
If we are talking about the F20C S2000 engine, it only makes 240 flywheel horsepower and 153ft-lbs at the flywheel, and needs every bit of it's 9000 RPM redline to make it. That engine needs to see some serious revs to make power as it is only a 2.0L.
At a 17% drivetrain loss, we are talking 200 wheel horsepower, 127ft-lbs of torque to wheels. Not very impressive anymore, considering the work it will take to get that engine installed and running.
If we are talking about the F20C S2000 engine, it only makes 240 flywheel horsepower and 153ft-lbs at the flywheel, and needs every bit of it's 9000 RPM redline to make it. That engine needs to see some serious revs to make power as it is only a 2.0L.
At a 17% drivetrain loss, we are talking 200 wheel horsepower, 127ft-lbs of torque to wheels. Not very impressive anymore, considering the work it will take to get that engine installed and running.
in anycase, its a 2004 engine, brand new
12-28-03, 07:03 AM
#27
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Oh, if it's an '04 engine it will be the new 2.2L, 240 flywheel horsepower, 164 flywheel torque engine (I don't know the code) with a lower 8k redline. It supposedly has a little more grunt with a wider powerband then the older F20C.
12-28-03, 04:54 PM
#30
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Originally posted by skunks
in anycase, its a 2004 engine, brand new
in anycase, its a 2004 engine, brand new
12-28-03, 05:02 PM
#31
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Originally posted by NZConvertible
The engine's probably worth several times what the car's worth. Do I detect the faint aroma of bodily waste...?
The engine's probably worth several times what the car's worth. Do I detect the faint aroma of bodily waste...?
oh there is no doubt about that!!! the engine+tranny combo he is getting will cost about 10X the amount of the car itself (no joke!). personnaly i would have suggested an LS1 or perhaps a 5.0 or even a GN engine haha. its his money though and there is no doubt he will have a sh*t load of fun with. (racing schools charge about 1-2k for just a few days of fun, think about how much fun he can have with that car). also, its far cheaper then a new econo car as well as most other cars here in hawaii, hell i have seen 80's civics and crx's go for like 3k as well as auto n/a fc's go for like 5k here! with prices that high, a s2k engine+ultralight fc body=hella fun
also, 260rwhp FC is probally more hp then most n/a fc's here!
12-28-03, 05:04 PM
#32
I'm a CF and poop smith
Thread Starter
Originally posted by Digi7ech
Sounds like he doesn't know rotaries. They don't have low end torque but how much more do you think you will get out of a low displacement piston engine?
Bleh I don't care.
Sounds like he doesn't know rotaries. They don't have low end torque but how much more do you think you will get out of a low displacement piston engine?
Bleh I don't care.
Last edited by skunks; 12-28-03 at 05:08 PM.
12-28-03, 05:05 PM
#33
I'm a CF and poop smith
Thread Starter
Originally posted by Kai
Oh, if it's an '04 engine it will be the new 2.2L, 240 flywheel horsepower, 164 flywheel torque engine (I don't know the code) with a lower 8k redline. It supposedly has a little more grunt with a wider powerband then the older F20C.
Oh, if it's an '04 engine it will be the new 2.2L, 240 flywheel horsepower, 164 flywheel torque engine (I don't know the code) with a lower 8k redline. It supposedly has a little more grunt with a wider powerband then the older F20C.
12-28-03, 05:33 PM
#34
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there are big displacement import engines. i guess in Japan they're just engines. so i will say there are big displacement Japanese engines, too. i'd imagine a straight or V 6 or a V8 would have more low end torque if thats what 'Kell' were to want. i dont even know what kell wants, though. so much babbling about other crap and a seemingly hidden hatred for rotaries. sure its an RX7, but when its just a post about a honda drivetrain, it becomes Honda territory. there's nothing technical involving the RX7 or rotaries in general.
someone should have named this site rotaryclub.com; there'd be so much less bickering.
someone should have named this site rotaryclub.com; there'd be so much less bickering.
12-28-03, 06:29 PM
#35
Senior Member
haha well here is my 2 cents on the issue. If you are running a NA engine in D1 you are wasting your time. There are no classes in Drift no bullshit wining about how much power someone has or what suspension someone has. The weak dick hachi rokus have to battle the super powered RX-7's and thats the way it is. My car will kill Kells car in drift hands down the little **** ant 260 hp car with its peak attitude will be hard to control. I have heard nothing of any banning of domestic engines. That is bullshit....its not an import showoff or anything its Drift!!!
I personally don't car if people do enging swaps or not I have thought about building a FC with a SR20 in it more than once but I have a deep love of rotary engines and haven't been fully compelled to get rid of my engine that makes power easily in trade for something that does not. ( in comparison) My car right now weighs 2932 pounds with the complete engine, mission, rollbar, 17"wheels/tires tank of gas and all fluids also a subwoofer box and my toolbox in the back. There is still weight to be shed but I really don't see the need. With over 350 HP and full boost occuring at 3000rpm I can hang with cars with even more power than me. Let me tell you from first hand experience you will need more than an awesome car to beat the Japanese drivers.
ON the flip side of that it is nice to se that more people are getting into drift and are spending time to build a solid car for it. You build your car your way and I will build my car my way.......Driving is where its at. Damn I love competition.........LOL
I personally don't car if people do enging swaps or not I have thought about building a FC with a SR20 in it more than once but I have a deep love of rotary engines and haven't been fully compelled to get rid of my engine that makes power easily in trade for something that does not. ( in comparison) My car right now weighs 2932 pounds with the complete engine, mission, rollbar, 17"wheels/tires tank of gas and all fluids also a subwoofer box and my toolbox in the back. There is still weight to be shed but I really don't see the need. With over 350 HP and full boost occuring at 3000rpm I can hang with cars with even more power than me. Let me tell you from first hand experience you will need more than an awesome car to beat the Japanese drivers.
ON the flip side of that it is nice to se that more people are getting into drift and are spending time to build a solid car for it. You build your car your way and I will build my car my way.......Driving is where its at. Damn I love competition.........LOL
12-28-03, 06:35 PM
#36
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the car in your avatar yours? looks sexy in that 100bit square. any big pictures ? and wow you're cocky.. is that an old japanese competition technique?? psyche out the competitors! anyways, pics??
12-28-03, 08:24 PM
#37
I'm a CF and poop smith
Thread Starter
Originally posted by Ranzo
haha well here is my 2 cents on the issue. If you are running a NA engine in D1 you are wasting your time. There are no classes in Drift no bullshit wining about how much power someone has or what suspension someone has. The weak dick hachi rokus have to battle the super powered RX-7's and thats the way it is. My car will kill Kells car in drift hands down the little **** ant 260 hp car with its peak attitude will be hard to control. I have heard nothing of any banning of domestic engines. That is bullshit....its not an import showoff or anything its Drift!!!
I personally don't car if people do enging swaps or not I have thought about building a FC with a SR20 in it more than once but I have a deep love of rotary engines and haven't been fully compelled to get rid of my engine that makes power easily in trade for something that does not. ( in comparison) My car right now weighs 2932 pounds with the complete engine, mission, rollbar, 17"wheels/tires tank of gas and all fluids also a subwoofer box and my toolbox in the back. There is still weight to be shed but I really don't see the need. With over 350 HP and full boost occuring at 3000rpm I can hang with cars with even more power than me. Let me tell you from first hand experience you will need more than an awesome car to beat the Japanese drivers.
ON the flip side of that it is nice to se that more people are getting into drift and are spending time to build a solid car for it. You build your car your way and I will build my car my way.......Driving is where its at. Damn I love competition.........LOL
haha well here is my 2 cents on the issue. If you are running a NA engine in D1 you are wasting your time. There are no classes in Drift no bullshit wining about how much power someone has or what suspension someone has. The weak dick hachi rokus have to battle the super powered RX-7's and thats the way it is. My car will kill Kells car in drift hands down the little **** ant 260 hp car with its peak attitude will be hard to control. I have heard nothing of any banning of domestic engines. That is bullshit....its not an import showoff or anything its Drift!!!
I personally don't car if people do enging swaps or not I have thought about building a FC with a SR20 in it more than once but I have a deep love of rotary engines and haven't been fully compelled to get rid of my engine that makes power easily in trade for something that does not. ( in comparison) My car right now weighs 2932 pounds with the complete engine, mission, rollbar, 17"wheels/tires tank of gas and all fluids also a subwoofer box and my toolbox in the back. There is still weight to be shed but I really don't see the need. With over 350 HP and full boost occuring at 3000rpm I can hang with cars with even more power than me. Let me tell you from first hand experience you will need more than an awesome car to beat the Japanese drivers.
ON the flip side of that it is nice to se that more people are getting into drift and are spending time to build a solid car for it. You build your car your way and I will build my car my way.......Driving is where its at. Damn I love competition.........LOL
12-28-03, 09:07 PM
#38
I'm a CF and poop smith
Thread Starter
Originally posted by casio
there are big displacement import engines. i guess in Japan they're just engines. so i will say there are big displacement Japanese engines, too. i'd imagine a straight or V 6 or a V8 would have more low end torque if thats what 'Kell' were to want. i dont even know what kell wants, though. so much babbling about other crap and a seemingly hidden hatred for rotaries. sure its an RX7, but when its just a post about a honda drivetrain, it becomes Honda territory. there's nothing technical involving the RX7 or rotaries in general.
someone should have named this site rotaryclub.com; there'd be so much less bickering.
there are big displacement import engines. i guess in Japan they're just engines. so i will say there are big displacement Japanese engines, too. i'd imagine a straight or V 6 or a V8 would have more low end torque if thats what 'Kell' were to want. i dont even know what kell wants, though. so much babbling about other crap and a seemingly hidden hatred for rotaries. sure its an RX7, but when its just a post about a honda drivetrain, it becomes Honda territory. there's nothing technical involving the RX7 or rotaries in general.
someone should have named this site rotaryclub.com; there'd be so much less bickering.
well they are heavier as well but who the hell cares, i just realize that this thread has turned in to a rotary VS everything else and it was ment to be holy **** FC's are light thread. Lets talk more about how you could possibly ligthen it even more.
future ideas on lighting the fc is to grab a hole saw and start to cut some holes out
that and nearly back 1/2 the fc (cutting out the part with the spare tire well after welding up a lighter aluminum peice there instead) he is not sure of doing this as it might compromise the frame/rear subframe. any more ideas? I personnaly suggested to make tublar A-arms and suspension components as well as trailing arms and everything else. anyone have any ideas on the weight of these things?
12-28-03, 09:15 PM
#39
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The engine is a waste of money. The car is a waste of time to lighten.
This Kell, should have went with a lighter car in the first place, and not be pissing away money on an engine that isn't really worth the time/effort/money, for this project...
This Kell, should have went with a lighter car in the first place, and not be pissing away money on an engine that isn't really worth the time/effort/money, for this project...
12-28-03, 09:27 PM
#40
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I know a few things about making a car light...
As do alot of people here, there is however a point where a car becomes an obvious race car, and most definatly NOT a street car... MOST people here have street FC's.
Take my AE86 corolla, thats a race car, not a street car, it also weighs sweet F A. Now an S2000 engine in THAT would be a better combo.
IMHO.
As do alot of people here, there is however a point where a car becomes an obvious race car, and most definatly NOT a street car... MOST people here have street FC's.
Take my AE86 corolla, thats a race car, not a street car, it also weighs sweet F A. Now an S2000 engine in THAT would be a better combo.
IMHO.
12-28-03, 09:59 PM
#41
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I don't know much about drifting or racing for that matter, but I know these things about driving in general.
Track width helps to increase stability, by moving the weight further out, so track width should be good for drifting. (Bigger track width)
Wheelbase shortness helps to allow for sharp cornering, by not having as much rear end to cut. Short wheelbase cars are easy to maneuver and thus easy to angle and reangle. Shorter wheelbase should be better for drifting.
Now, as for a little comparo between RX7s (which scream highway car to me) and AE86s (which scream narrow street car to me).
RX7s are long, low, and wide. Yay for high speed stability. These cars make you want to go really fast as soon as possible. And they make you feel like no speed is too fast for that little rotary to spin. Keep in mind that at a stock curb weight in the ballpark of 1.5 tons, these FCs are no featherweights.
AE86s are short, light, and very feathery. They make you afraid to go fast, but not to turn tightly, or to swing the rear out, as with such a small car, it's easy to hold in place. They don't want you to go too much faster, because they aren't really designed for it. They want handling before speed. And with a curb weight closer to an even ton, you can do the math as to how the car will handle.
Assuming you could skim the same weight from both cars, where the RX would weigh in at roughly 2100-2500 with driver/gas/fluids, the AE would weigh in at about 1100-1500, equally equipped. Seeing the differences now...?
Track width helps to increase stability, by moving the weight further out, so track width should be good for drifting. (Bigger track width)
Wheelbase shortness helps to allow for sharp cornering, by not having as much rear end to cut. Short wheelbase cars are easy to maneuver and thus easy to angle and reangle. Shorter wheelbase should be better for drifting.
Now, as for a little comparo between RX7s (which scream highway car to me) and AE86s (which scream narrow street car to me).
RX7s are long, low, and wide. Yay for high speed stability. These cars make you want to go really fast as soon as possible. And they make you feel like no speed is too fast for that little rotary to spin. Keep in mind that at a stock curb weight in the ballpark of 1.5 tons, these FCs are no featherweights.
AE86s are short, light, and very feathery. They make you afraid to go fast, but not to turn tightly, or to swing the rear out, as with such a small car, it's easy to hold in place. They don't want you to go too much faster, because they aren't really designed for it. They want handling before speed. And with a curb weight closer to an even ton, you can do the math as to how the car will handle.
Assuming you could skim the same weight from both cars, where the RX would weigh in at roughly 2100-2500 with driver/gas/fluids, the AE would weigh in at about 1100-1500, equally equipped. Seeing the differences now...?
12-28-03, 10:10 PM
#42
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I think he should drop a v8 and drag it if he wants to swap, but if he wants to drift, why does he change the engine out. the rotary will make more power if done correctly, for 1/5 of the price, and you can strip the interior, including pasenger seat in 15 -20 minutes, and it'll be light enough, and if ya want you can put it back in.
I know its not your car, but he's really wasting money, but he has it to blow, I dont(but wish I did, LOL).
good luck with your project though, Hope it turns out great. Hope you guys can get it working. I'd like to see it when your done.
I know its not your car, but he's really wasting money, but he has it to blow, I dont(but wish I did, LOL).
good luck with your project though, Hope it turns out great. Hope you guys can get it working. I'd like to see it when your done.
12-28-03, 10:16 PM
#43
Senior Member
Yeah well hachi rokus are not good drift cars....... I know I know Initial D has made them out to be good cars for drift but they are not. The shor wheel base makes them fidgety..........they do as you said turn fast and are agile but that is not exactly what drift is about. The hachis are light as hell... My team memebers car says 950kg on the title......thats wet weight!!!
I am not sure if the FC is much better becasue they are small car as well......they get lots of traction in the rear especially when you lower them so that makes for a somtimes unpredictable ride.
The lighter you can make a FC the better. I have replaced the fenders with FRP ones.....removed 98%of the interior to include the carpet undercoating. I removed the "bumpers" and other things as well.
Just removing the carpet and undercoating saved me over a 100kg. I will someday get a good bonnet as mine is steel! Right now I am up in arms as what to do because there is a list as long as you can imagine of things I want to do to my car but I am seriously looking at returning to the states to compete in D1 there........ Leaving Japan is hard for me to do and starting all over with a car will take time and probably wont finish before the season starts so maybe one more year......who knows.!
I know there are lexan hatches FRP doors and such for the FC so you can really make one light! However Sylvias and the nissans are already made of thinner metal and can easily be made even lighter......at the cost of being easily damaged in a crash.
I am not sure if the FC is much better becasue they are small car as well......they get lots of traction in the rear especially when you lower them so that makes for a somtimes unpredictable ride.
The lighter you can make a FC the better. I have replaced the fenders with FRP ones.....removed 98%of the interior to include the carpet undercoating. I removed the "bumpers" and other things as well.
Just removing the carpet and undercoating saved me over a 100kg. I will someday get a good bonnet as mine is steel! Right now I am up in arms as what to do because there is a list as long as you can imagine of things I want to do to my car but I am seriously looking at returning to the states to compete in D1 there........ Leaving Japan is hard for me to do and starting all over with a car will take time and probably wont finish before the season starts so maybe one more year......who knows.!
I know there are lexan hatches FRP doors and such for the FC so you can really make one light! However Sylvias and the nissans are already made of thinner metal and can easily be made even lighter......at the cost of being easily damaged in a crash.
12-28-03, 11:18 PM
#44
I'm a CF and poop smith
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Originally posted by Ranzo
Yeah well hachi rokus are not good drift cars....... I know I know Initial D has made them out to be good cars for drift but they are not. The shor wheel base makes them fidgety..........they do as you said turn fast and are agile but that is not exactly what drift is about.
Yeah well hachi rokus are not good drift cars....... I know I know Initial D has made them out to be good cars for drift but they are not. The shor wheel base makes them fidgety..........they do as you said turn fast and are agile but that is not exactly what drift is about.
12-28-03, 11:28 PM
#45
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On a slightly different note I _hate_ owning a White FC and an AE86 corolla, everyone assumes I bought them both because im some drifter that is in love with initial D... 
.....i'm not by the way.....
Both cars handle quite well, however I definatly would NOT rate my corolla's handling as twitchy?
It's actually quite stable?
<Big-ego>maybe it's just set-up well</Big-ego>
.....i'm not by the way.....
Both cars handle quite well, however I definatly would NOT rate my corolla's handling as twitchy?
It's actually quite stable?
<Big-ego>maybe it's just set-up well</Big-ego>
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